Would people who go to hell *ever* have chosen friendship with God?

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I was listening to an old Catholic Answers, and Trent Horn seemed to indicate that people who reject God, would have never converted, no matter how long their life.

If that’s true, then perhaps those who would’ve converted had they enough time and better understanding, would receive mercy in their last moments? I’m not referring to invincible ignorance necessarily, as some people who reject faith do have some familiarity with it.

My parents died, and they weren’t Christians although my mom was validly baptized. So as you can imagine, this is a deep struggle for me. Not to mention I was/am an ok example, but a crappy evangelist.
 
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Honestly that sounds like trents Protestant background creeping in. One can indeed be on friends with God and lose salvation. That’s pretty clear. Perhaps you misunderstood?
 
Lucy_1 said:
I was listening to an old Catholic Answers, and Trent Horn seemed to indicate that people who reject God, would have never converted, no matter how long their life.

If that’s true, then perhaps those who would’ve converted had they enough time and better understanding, would receive mercy in their last moments? I’m not referring to invincible ignorance necessarily, as some people who reject faith do have some familiarity with it.

My parents died, and they weren’t Christians although my mom was validly baptized. So as you can imagine, this is a deep struggle for me. Not to mention I was/am an ok example, but a crappy evangelist.
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Do you have a more precise quote of his, or a date when that Catholic Answers aired? I’d like to hear it myself.

Thanks!

Stephen
 
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It was one of the “Why Are You and Atheist” episodes, but I’m not sure which one.
 
Lucy_1 said:
I was listening to an old Catholic Answers, and Trent Horn seemed to indicate that people who reject God, would have never converted, no matter how long their life.

If that’s true, then perhaps those who would’ve converted had they enough time and better understanding, would receive mercy in their last moments? I’m not referring to invincible ignorance necessarily, as some people who reject faith do have some familiarity with it.

My parents died, and they weren’t Christians although my mom was validly baptized. So as you can imagine, this is a deep struggle for me. Not to mention I was/am an ok example, but a crappy evangelist.
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This would seem to deny free will to me. Certainly those in Hell had the free will to at some point to choose God.
 
Lucy_1 said:
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God forgives sins to the truly repentant.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1237 … God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood , like the desire for Baptism , brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament.

1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is “sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again.” …

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.
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Lucy_1 said:
My parents died, and they weren’t Christians although my mom was validly baptized. So as you can imagine, this is a deep struggle for me.
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(As I’m sure you already know) you can always pray and do good works for them - Saint Paisios said we can’t imagine how much consolation a soul receives when we simply light a candle for them.

Another small story: Saint Xenia’s husband died in a drunken bar fight (and of course he didn’t receive the Sacraments before he died). After the funeral, Saint Xenia put on his military coat & hat and did good works in his name. Whenever people asked who helped them, she would say “Andrei” (the name of her husband). Eventually God gave her a vision of her husband entering into Paradise, aided by her fervent prayers and good works.
 
I mean, since my dad wasn’t even baptized, I doubt if good works would get him into purgatory, would it? I swear if it would, I would move to Haiti and open an orphanage.
 
Lucy_1 said:
I mean, since my dad wasn’t even baptized, I doubt if good works would get him into purgatory, would it? I swear if it would, I would move to Haiti and open an orphanage.
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Ha! We Russians don’t believe in purgatory! Open that orphanage!

On a more serious note, there are unbaptized people in Heaven: the thief on the cross, all the Old Testament patriarchs (Moses, David, patriarch Abraham), the miscarried souls, the righteous pagans (Socrates, Plato, Aristotle), the stillborn…

“God has bound salvation to the sacrament of baptism, but He Himself is not bound by His sacraments” (Catechism, 1257)
 
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Vico said:
God forgives sins to the truly repentant
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Would anyone in hell repented eventually if they lived longer and had more nudges from the Holy Spirit? Of course my parents were in their 80s, so maybe they had a lot of grace’s already.
 
I am reminded of the parable of the rich fool when God said: fool! this night your soul is required of you, meaning he would die that night. My point is, the length of life is not important, God knows the heart and is omniscient so his judgment is always just.
 
So if you end up in hell, you would’ve ended up there no matter how many graces God sent your way?

This whole doctrine is really confusing to me. I know we say God doesn’t send people to hell, they choose to go there, but it seems pretty unlikely that most people who end up in hell would be so hard hearted and at enmity with God.
 
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The bottomline is we don’t know who ends up in Hell. God knows. So we persevere to the end, like St Paul.
 
I think there are a lot of people who want to remain in God’s friendship, but who just cannot get past that mortal sin that they feel like they have to continue living in —
  • I’ll lose a loved one
  • I’ll lose my job
  • it’s just so good that I can’t give it up
  • the people who matter to me, won’t like me anymore
  • giving it up would make my life too hard
  • a lot of people do this, and they’re good people, they’re happy and everybody likes them
  • my culture expects it
  • I have that loan that I have to pay back
  • I’ll be all alone if I quit doing it
  • I’ll suffer a lot and my life will be miserable if I give it up
  • I’ll just take my chances and make amends with God later in life, after I’m done having fun
… and so many other reasons.

I realize we can say “you love that sin more than you love God, and you are choosing something God has forbidden under pain of mortal sin”, but as much of a moral and theological hardnose as I may come across as being, I understand that for many, many people, it’s not that simple. There are a lot of people who simply don’t function on that level, and I pray to God that He takes those people as they are, not as they should be. There are also people who have “superego lacunae”, which is a fancy way of saying that their conscience has holes like Swiss cheese. I hate sin, and I can see many sins that are destroying people and destroying our society, but I don’t want to see anyone go to hell.
 
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