Would pro-life street protests work?

[XndrK]

Why hasn’t there been an Occupy for Life yet? Euromaidan worked; Occupy Wall Street didn’t work only because they didn’t have a clearly-defined goal, but did manage to point out the flaws in the capitalist system to the average American; Tahrir Square sorta worked (I really don’t understand the Egyptian situation at all – they got the election, but then they stopped liking the person they elected and the military took over, but then the military stopped being in control because they don’t need it, except the guy they elected from earlier is on trial or something … ?) – street protests have a history of working.

2018 would be a good time to do it because a) we have a year and a half to plan and b) it would be Roe v Wade + 45.

Deal?

 

[edwest2]

Every year, I saw one today, there is a day set aside for people to hold signs calling for an end to abortion. There are a number of pro-life demonstrations, but according to a knowledgeable person, they don’t get the media coverage pro-abortion demonstrations do. Here’s a resource with links to more resources:

priestsforlife.org/

And talk to your priest about this as well.

Ed

 

[pianistclare]

There were literally thousands of Life Chain events today in the U.S. and Canada.

We had a wonderful turnout for ours.

 

[Latias]

Why hasn’t there been an Occupy for Life yet? Euromaidan worked; Occupy Wall Street didn’t work only because they didn’t have a clearly-defined goal, but did manage to point out the flaws in the capitalist system to the average American; Tahrir Square sorta worked (I really don’t understand the Egyptian situation at all – they got the election, but then they stopped liking the person they elected and the military took over, but then the military stopped being in control because they don’t need it, except the guy they elected from earlier is on trial or something … ?) – street protests have a history of working.

2018 would be a good time to do it because a) we have a year and a half to plan and b) it would be Roe v Wade + 45.

Deal?

The Maidan was a violent, brutal fascist movement. I suspect you are getting your opinion of the Maidan from the US media, which did not criticize the violence of the Maidan and from propaganda such as Winter on Fire. I think you need a sympathetic media to overlook the “flaws” of your actions, such as not condemning acts of violence committed on your behalf.

Do you have a sympathetic media who will portray you in a positive light even if you are brutally violent?
Are you willing to violently confront the police with chains, baseball bats, and Molotov cocktails?
Will you plan and train your supporters to confront the police with violence?

Also, high level officials, such as John Kerry, Victoria Nuland, and John McCain went to the Maidan to show their support for the “protestors”. Will high level officials from France, Great Britain, China, or Russia show support for you?

youtube.com/watch?v=cYyy0aeWrnw

That video tells the truth about the Maidan. It mentions that many of the protestors were organized to confront the police, and many trained to confront the police before the Maidan.

The lesson of the Maidan is that violence works if you have a powerful state supporting you. Perhaps that is why movements such as the March for Life wouldn’t work. Maybe pro-lifers are perspicuous enough to abjure from violence because they know it would not work, because they do not have support from a powerful state, not because the movement is pacifistic (which clearly isn’t).

Someone such as Pinochet was pro-life, and although he tortured and murdered thousands of people, the US still supported him. I suppose the question to ask is whethe a Security Council member would deploy force on your behalf.

For example:

Declassified transcripts of communications between Lincoln Gordon and the US government show that, predicting an all-out civil war, and with the opportunity to get rid of a left wing government in Brazil, Johnson authorized logistical materials to be in place and a US Navy fleet led by an aircraft carrier to support the coup against Goulart. These included ammunition, motor oil, gasoline, aviation gasoline and other materials to help in a potential civil war in US Navy tankers sailing from Aruba. About 110 tons of ammunition and CS gas were made ready in New Jersey for a potential airlift to Viracopos Airport in Campinas. Potential support was also made available in the form of an “aircraft carrier (USS Forrestal) and two guided missile destroyers (expected arrive in area by April 10), (and) four destroyers”, which sailed to Brazil under the guise of a military exercise.[30]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Operation_Brother_Sam

Will you have this type of support?

 

[Latias]

I would also add the one factor contributing to the success of the Civil Rights Movement was competition with the Soviet Union.

historytoday.com/adam-fairclough/civil-rights-during-cold-war

 

[Dorothy]

Forty Days for Life has extraordinary success stories.

You can read about it here:

40daysfortworth.com/?doing_wp_cron=1475452783.5813050270080566406250

 

[XndrK]

The Maidan was a violent, brutal fascist movement. I suspect you are getting your opinion of the Maidan from the US media, which did not criticize the violence of the Maidan and from propaganda such as Winter on Fire. I think you need a sympathetic media to overlook the “flaws” of your actions, such as not condemning acts of violence committed on your behalf.

Do you have a sympathetic media who will portray you in a positive light even if you are brutally violent?
Are you willing to violently confront the police with chains, baseball bats, and Molotov cocktails?
Will you plan and train your supporters to confront the police with violence?

Also, high level officials, such as John Kerry, Victoria Nuland, and John McCain went to the Maidan to show their support for the “protestors”. Will high level officials from France, Great Britain, China, or Russia show support for you?

youtube.com/watch?v=cYyy0aeWrnw

That video tells the truth about the Maidan. It mentions that many of the protestors were organized to confront the police, and many trained to confront the police before the Maidan.

The lesson of the Maidan is that violence works if you have a powerful state supporting you. Perhaps that is why movements such as the March for Life wouldn’t work. Maybe pro-lifers are perspicuous enough to abjure from violence because they know it would not work, because they do not have support from a powerful state, not because the movement is pacifistic (which clearly isn’t).

Someone such as Pinochet was pro-life, and although he tortured and murdered thousands of people, the US still supported him. I suppose the question to ask is whethe a Security Council member would deploy force on your behalf.

For example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Brazilian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#Operation_Brother_Sam

Will you have this type of support?

If that’s what it takes.

And what on Earth does Pinochet have to do with the pro-life movement? We’re advocating an end to abortion, not a dictatorship.

 

[Latias]

If that’s what it takes.

And what on Earth does Pinochet have to do with the pro-life movement? We’re advocating an end to abortion, not a dictatorship.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/redherring.gif

Pinochet stopped abortions. He is therefore pro-life.

Still, the point is, regardless of whether the pro-life movements protests are violent, they would likely succeed if it was supported by a foreign military power. Pinochet had the support of the US.

 

[XndrK]

Pinochet stopped abortions. He is therefore pro-life.

Still, the point is, regardless of whether the pro-life movements protests are violent, they would likely succeed if it was supported by a foreign military power. Pinochet had the support of the US.

… and the USSR was pro-choice.

Again:



Besides, we’d have the backing of Chile, most of the Muslim world, Poland, Ireland, etc, to name a few. If your concern is that pro-life protests would have few foreign backers, I don’t think that’s a problem. Most of the color revolutions didn’t either.

 

[Latias]

… and the USSR was pro-choice.

Besides, we’d have the backing of Chile, most of the Muslim world, Poland, Ireland, etc, to name a few. If your concern is that pro-life protests would have few foreign backers, I don’t think that’s a problem. Most of the color revolutions didn’t either.

You really need to stop doing that.

I said military support. You brought up the Maidan, and the point brought up by Borotba and myself was that it had the military support of major powers. Muslims may be sympathetic to opposing abortion, but they would likely not send in an aircraft carrier (or display military power in another way) to support a pro-life movement in the US. There is no geopolitical significance to the pro-life movement.

I gave you suggestions to copy the Maidan and an explanation on why it was successful. Are you sure you really want a pro-life Maidan? In some ways, you do, since you acknowledge that it was successful. Do you want success as the Maidan had achieved or do you want to posture on how bad liberals are for being pro-choice, dreaming about a President that will appoint Robert Borks on the Supreme Court, and doing other forms of activism that do not garner much attention…

 

[XndrK]

You really need to stop doing that.

I said military support. You brought up the Maidan, and the point brought up by Borotba and myself was that it had the military support of major powers. Muslims may be sympathetic to opposing abortion, but they would likely not send in an aircraft carrier (or display military power in another way) to support a pro-life movement in the US. There is no geopolitical significance to the pro-life movement.

I gave you suggestions to copy the Maidan and an explanation on why it was successful. Are you sure you really want a pro-life Maidan? In some ways, you do, since you acknowledge that it was successful. Do you want success as the Maidan had achieved or do you want to posture on how bad liberals are for being pro-choice, dreaming about a President that will appoint Robert Borks on the Supreme Court, and doing other forms of activism that do not garner much attention…

Okay, Maidan had military support. That’s what you meant. Got it.

The color revolutions didn’t. Maidan didn’t; there was a lot of money changing hands, but no foreign troops on the ground until Russia did the thing they did. None of the Arab Spring did until Syria collapsed (except Libya and maybe Egypt, but Egypt is confusing).

And yes, I want a Maidan level of success. (Except without the foreign-backed breakaway province. Would Canada fund a Cascadia secession movement? )

 

[Latias]

Okay, Maidan had military support. That’s what you meant. Got it.

The color revolutions didn’t. Maidan didn’t; there was a lot of money changing hands, but no foreign troops on the ground until Russia did the thing they did. None of the Arab Spring did until Syria collapsed (except Libya and maybe Egypt, but Egypt is confusing).

And yes, I want a Maidan level of success. (Except without the foreign-backed breakaway province. Would Canada fund a Cascadia secession movement? )

I meant to say that it had the support of military powers. The US was probably willing to use military measures to support the Maidan if it escalated.

 

[XndrK]

I meant to say that it had the support of military powers. The US was probably willing to use military measures to support the Maidan if it escalated.

I find that a bit extreme, considering that Maidan was very much in the Russian sphere of influence and American boots on the ground would have made Putin ticked.

 

[mikekle]

Every year, I saw one today, there is a day set aside for people to hold signs calling for an end to abortion. There are a number of pro-life demonstrations, but according to a knowledgeable person, they don’t get the media coverage pro-abortion demonstrations do. Here’s a resource with links to more resources:

priestsforlife.org/

And talk to your priest about this as well.

Ed

A day set aside once a year to protest?..LOL thats not going to achieve anything.

Historically if you look at how things were achieved, the groups must become a problem to those in charge, they must **** a lot of people off, and do it quite often, a day or two each year when ‘protesting’ is almost scheduled in/ expected is pointless.

 

[XndrK]

A day set aside once a year to protest?..LOL thats not going to achieve anything.

Historically if you look at how things were achieved, the groups must become a problem to those in charge, they must **** a lot of people off, and do it quite often, a day or two each year when ‘protesting’ is almost scheduled in/ expected is pointless.

That’s what I was thinking, because pro-choice politicians would just sit there and think, “Okay, this is the day everyone yells at me and calls me a murderer, and tomorrow will be fine.”

 

[Wendy1989]

40 Days for Life is currently in progress for the fall. This stand began on September 28 and goes through November 6 and is currently in all 50 of the United States and 23 countries such as Kenya, Nigeria, Austrailia, Germany, Romania, Croatia, England, Spain, South Africa, Mexico, Canada and Bolivia. If you visit the website, you’ll see that there have been 69 children saved from abortion since 09/28/16 here in the US. 40daysforlife.com

The purpose of 40 Days for Life is to change hearts. It has changed the hearts of the mothers and it has changed the hearts of the workers in the clinics. Since it’s inception, there have been over 133 workers who’ve left the industry. One big name is Abby Johnson. We are not loud or ugly; we pray. We join with not just Catholics, but all people of good will. It is a truly ecumenical movement. It is a peaceful witness. I encourage you to go to the website and find a vigil site near you and pray. You won’t have any interaction with anyone, as there are trained couselors speaking to the women - you are there as peaceful support. Pray changes things!

 

[mikekle]

That’s what I was thinking, because pro-choice politicians would just sit there and think, “Okay, this is the day everyone yells at me and calls me a murderer, and tomorrow will be fine.”

Yes, How far would martin Luther king Jr have gotten with civil rights back in the 60s if he made life easy for the powers that be at that time, when planning the protests and other actions…not too far imo.

He did the complete opposite, they were all non-violent, but at the same time, they had majority of law enforcement agencies and other govt leaders very upset and concerned at what could happen next, heck look at how violent some of the police got when dealing with their protests…they were extremely p’eed off!!

However the big difference today is, prolife does not have the media support nor is it the popular public sentiment, so its going to be that much tougher.

I think the prolife groups should make it clear that ANYONE that allows abortion clinics to operate, whether it be direct or indirect, make it known to them that they will have to answer to God for this one day, and when I say anyone, I mean everyone, from the people who own the property and rent the space or sell them the parcel, the people who mow the grass at the locations, the garbage men who pick up their trash, police who protect and patrol the location, window washers, utility companies who provide them with electric, phone, etc…ALL these people and more are cooperating with this evil and allowing it to operate.

 

[XndrK]

Yes, How far would martin Luther king Jr have gotten with civil rights back in the 60s if he made life easy for the powers that be at that time, when planning the protests and other actions…not too far imo.

He did the complete opposite, they were all non-violent, but at the same time, they had majority of law enforcement agencies and other govt leaders very upset and concerned at what could happen next, heck look at how violent some of the police got when dealing with their protests…they were extremely p’eed off!!

However the big difference today is, prolife does not have the media support nor is it the popular public sentiment, so its going to be that much tougher.

I think the prolife groups should make it clear that ANYONE that allows abortion clinics to operate, whether it be direct or indirect, make it known to them that they will have to answer to God for this one day, and when I say anyone, I mean everyone, from the people who own the property and rent the space or sell them the parcel, the people who mow the grass at the locations, the garbage men who pick up their trash, police who protect and patrol the location, window washers, utility companies who provide them with electric, phone, etc…ALL these people and more are cooperating with this evil and allowing it to operate.

Since it appears to be my go-to example, much to Latias’s chagrin …

Maidan didn’t have much MSM support within Ukraine. Thankfully, the Internet has a way of circumventing that (I don’t even think most people follow the MSM anymore, unless Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Fallon count). We just need to learn how to use it.