Yes, Enoch and Elijah went to heaven [Akin]

[GaryTaylor]

“The disciples of the Apostles say that they (Enoch and Elijah) whose living bodies were taken up from the earth, have been placed in an earthly paradise, where they will remain until the end of the world.” 2 (Ibid, Page 466. Adversus Haereses, Liber 4, Cap. 30).

Pope St. Gregory the Great (540 - 604 AD) “Elijah has not evaded death, but put it off. He was raised into this (aerial) Heaven, in order that he might suddenly be conveyed to some secret region of the earth, where he might live in great repose of the spirit and the flesh, until he shall return at the end of the world to pay the debt of death.” 3 (The Prophet of Carmel; Fr. Charles B. Garside, M.A.; Carmelite Monastery of Wheeling; 1924; Page 263. Lib. ii, Hom. xxix, in Evang. sec. 5).

St. Thomas Aquinas (1225 - 1274 AD) “Ejijah was raised into the aerial, not the empyrean heaven, which is the abode of the Saints, and in like manner Enoch was carried away to a terrestrial paradise, where he and Elijah, it is believed, will live together until the coming of the Antichrist.” 4 (Ibid, Page 263. Summae, iii, Q. xlix, art. 5).

St. Robert Bellarmine (1542 - 1621 AD) “The third demonstration arises from the coming of Enoch and Elijah, who live even now and shall live until they come to oppose Antichrist himself, and to preserve the elect in the faith of Christ, and in the end shall convert the Jews, and it is certain that this has not yet been fulfilled.” 12 (Ibid, Page 475. Liber Tertius, P. 434)

St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD) “It is a familiar theme in the conversation and heart of the faithful, that in the last days before the Judgment the Jews shall believe in the true Christ, that is, our Christ, by means of this great and admirable prophet Elijah, who shall expound the Law to them. For not without reason do we hope that before the coming of our Judge and Saviour, Elijah shall come, because we have good reason to believe that he is now alive. For, as Scripture most distinctly informs us, he was taken up from this life in a chariot of fire. When, therefore, he is come, he will give a spiritual explanation of the Law which the Jews at present understand carnally, and shall thus, “turn the heart of the father to the son”, that is, the heart of the fathers to the children. And the meaning is that the sons, that is, the Jews, shall understand the Law as the fathers, that is, the prophets, and among them Moses himself, understood it…that the Jews also, who had previously hated, should then love the Son who is our Christ.” 10 (Ibid, Pages 469-470. The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 29).

St. Ephraem (306 - 373 AD) “And when the Son of Perdition has drawn to his purpose the whole world, Enoch and Elijah shall be sent that they might confute the Evil One.” 9 (Birch, Page 470. Syri, III, Col. 188, Sermo II).

I don’t see where they died.

 

[MarcoPG]

Faith, I don’t think they died, but some do and think what happened to Elijah at least wasn’t being taken up to Heaven bt to another earthly place, then he died. Well alright.

Then as you may know by now, we have to make the distinction between Heaven (eternal) and heaven/paradise/Abraham Bosom, which was before Christ opened the Gates of Heaven. There too, we may ask if they need glorification to go in a lower heaven than the beatific vision, but we can just say “maybe” and “if”.
The best we can do is, for every theory, relate what we read from the BIble and the Fathers to the Revelation and the Teachings of the Church. We have some room to speculate, but we cannot know for sure. It is like science here (some would be happy), you build your little theory up, and as long as it fits and doesn’t contradict the Church, ok.

For sure I would love to know for sure, but …

 

[Faith1960]

Faith, I don’t think they died, but some do and think what happened to Elijah at least wasn’t being taken up to Heaven bt to another earthly place, then he died. Well alright.

Then as you may know by now, we have to make the distinction between Heaven (eternal) and heaven/paradise/Abraham Bosom, which was before Christ opened the Gates of Heaven. There too, we may ask if they need glorification to go in a lower heaven than the beatific vision, but we can just say “maybe” and “if”.
The best we can do is, for every theory, relate what we read from the BIble and the Fathers to the Revelation and the Teachings of the Church. We have some room to speculate, but we cannot know for sure. It is like science here (some would be happy), you build your little theory up, and as long as it fits and doesn’t contradict the Church, ok.

For sure I would love to know for sure, but …

Only God knows for sure, I guess.

 

[Faith1960]

Faith, I don’t think they died, but some do and think what happened to Elijah at least wasn’t being taken up to Heaven bt to another earthly place, then he died. Well alright.

Then as you may know by now, we have to make the distinction between Heaven (eternal) and heaven/paradise/Abraham Bosom, which was before Christ opened the Gates of Heaven. There too, we may ask if they need glorification to go in a lower heaven than the beatific vision, but we can just say “maybe” and “if”.
The best we can do is, for every theory, relate what we read from the BIble and the Fathers to the Revelation and the Teachings of the Church. We have some room to speculate, but we cannot know for sure. It is like science here (some would be happy), you build your little theory up, and as long as it fits and doesn’t contradict the Church, ok.

For sure I would love to know for sure, but …

Let’s say they didn’t die, what became overhear bodies? Bodies would have to be glorified in some way to survive if they are taken up and stay up there, right?

 

[MarcoPG]

For me, yes. But God can choose to support a mortal body without nutriment. I really don’t see why, but He can, if He wants. Now the mere fact to state it is possible doesn’t make it a good theory…

 

[Faith1960]

For me, yes. But God can choose to support a mortal body without nutriment. I really don’t see why, but He can, if He wants. Now the mere fact to state it is possible doesn’t make it a good theory…

Which isn’t a good theory? That they’re glorified or not?

 

[MarcoPG]

Which isn’t a good theory? That they’re glorified or not?

A good theory is a coherent one Both suppositions can be supported, as long as it can be argumented. But I see you keep on seeking for the answer, the problem is we are going on circles. Many here have already explained what the points of view are; this questions is one of those which will be answered later

 

[Faith1960]

haš-šā-mā-yim is the Hebrew word for Heaven AND the sky. (see here for more details)

Ouranos is the Greek equivalent and merely means “air, heaven, sky”. (see here for more details)

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**haš-šā-mā-yim is used in 2nd Kings 2:11 . . . . **

2nd KINGS 2:11 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Below with parenthetical addition of the Hebrew

**
2nd KINGS 2:11** 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into **heaven (haš-šā-mā-yim) **

(haš-šā-mā-yim can be seen in 2nd Kings 2:11 here).

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**haš-šā-mā-yim is used here too . . . . **

GENESIS 1:1 1 IN the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Below with parenthetical addition of the Hebrew

GENESIS 1:1 1 IN the beginning God created the heavens (haš·šā·ma·yim) and the earth.

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**haš-šā-mā-yim is also used here for example . . . . **

DEUTERONOMY 11:10-12 10 For the land which you are entering to take possession of it is not like the land of Egypt, from which you have come, where you sowed your seed and watered it with your feet, like a garden of vegetables; 11 but the land which you are going over to possess is a land of hills and valleys, which drinks water by the rain from heaven, 12 a land which the LORD your God cares for; the eyes of the LORD your God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year.

Below with parenthetical addition of the Hebrew

DEUTERONOMY 11:10-12 10 For the land which you are entering to take possession of it is not like the land of Egypt, from which you have come, where you sowed your seed and watered it with your feet, like a garden of vegetables; 11 but the land which you are going over to possess is a land of hills and valleys, which drinks water by the rain from heaven (haš·šā·ma·yim), 12 a land which the LORD your God cares for; the eyes of the LORD your God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year to the end of the year.

A good theory is a coherent one Both suppositions can be supported, as long as it can be argumented. But I see you keep on seeking for the answer, the problem is we are going on circles. Many here have already explained what the points of view are; this questions is one of those which will be answered later

No, I’m asking you what you meant. What isn’t a good theory, IYO?

 

[Nelka]

Well they have to return to witness against the antichrist so maybe there was an exception for them to go to Heaven or maybe Abraham’s Bosom was comfortable enough for a period of time.

 

[tiny_augustine]

Hi everyone! I would say that it would be a mistake to assume that Enoch and Elijah were taken into the heaven that you’re thinking of. They were not taken into the same heaven. According to the Book of Enoch, a Book revered as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and an important book of Second Temple Judaism that Jesus would have been very familiar with (to which the New Testament alludes), there were a different number of heavens. According to the Book of Enoch, the third heaven contained a new Garden within which was the Tree of Lives. This is not the highest heaven, however. There were ten of them, and the highest, the tenth, was where only God dwelt. However, there are two ways of looking at this “leveled” understanding of heaven: 1) the 10 heavens, OR 2) three levels (comprising all the 10 heavens) made up of the lowest heaven (the Glory Cloud that was within the sky), the middle heaven (through the Glory Cloud but beyond the level of the sky, at the height we would “call” space), and the highest heaven (beyond anything in our fallen reality). I would say that these levels do not correspond to our earthly creation, but are LIKE a portal to a different dimension. I hate this language though, but I’m using it quick to make a distinction. These two systematic “leveled” understandings of heaven can be synthesized to work together…but I’m not going to take the time to do that here now. When St. Paul said that he knew a man taken to the third heaven, he means the highest heaven, the tenth heaven, where God is, not where the Garden and Tree of Lives are.

Enoch and Elijah, and Moses too (Josephus explains the Jewish Tradition that Moses was actually taken up too, and that Deuteronomy only said that he was buried in order to guard the Israelites from being tempted to worship him…this is why Moses and Elijah are together with Jesus at the Transfiguration) ascended only to this Garden heaven…not directly into Trinitarian life. This third heaven was like the highest level of sheol. Yes, its possible that God could save them in advance, beyond the limits or linear time. But just because this is possible doesn’t mean that he did.

We are saved not just because our sins have been forgiven, but because we enter into the Incarnational Eucharistic Communion of Christ, that is His Body, the Church, wherein we are “translated” out of our fallen nature in Adam into the shared Authentic Human Nature of Christ, as well as become God through becoming partakers of the Divine Nature. As the Fathers say “God became man so that man could become God.” To dwell in the Tenth Heaven, which is God Himself, we have to share in his Divine Nature, being like Him.

God Bless