Yes, It Was “Real Socialism.” No, We Shouldn’t Try Again

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Did Cambodia, Cuba or USSR have this
, this
and this
? Did they have automatic theorem proving Sledgehammer and automatic theorem formulation Automated Theory Formation in Pure Mathematics | Simon Colton | Springer ? Did they have https://opencog.org/ or were they building Microsoft Invests In and Partners with OpenAI to Support Us Building Beneficial AGI ?

We are living in new world in which the stories should be evaluated and in which the technological discovers should be brought to the real life. And that changes the social-economic relationships. Emergence of gig economy, negative inflation despite the 25% of GDP central bank balance sheet (incredible printing of money), depressed labour wages and strong capital gains. All that gives the evidence that automation and robotis and AI works. Were will be people?

I am against any popular socialist movement because they misinterpret that. I am tech-communist or transhumanist. I have the same passion and the same calling as Juergen Schmidhuber's home page - Universal Artificial Intelligence - New AI - Deep Learning - Recurrent Neural Networks - Computer Vision - Object Detection - Image segmentation - Goedel Machine - Theory of everything - Algorithmic theory of everything - Computable universe - Zuse's thesis - Universal learning algorithms - Universal search - Kolmogorov Complexity - Algorithmic information - Super Omega - Speed Prior - Independent component analysis - ICA - Financial forecasting - Evolution - Reinforcement learning - POMDPs - Reinforcement learning economy - Hierarchical learning - Metalearning - Learning to learn - Self-Improvement - Genetic programming - Attentive vision - Active exploration - Theory of beauty - Theory of creativity - Theory of Humor - Facial Attractiveness - Low-complexity Art - Lego Art and that is why I need to speak about the inevitable changes that the current economy and society faces, it is simply my duty. I you knew those things that I know you would feel and behave the same way.

p.s. you may name your profession and I can try to provide the current state of art of AI in automating it. Or you can simply Google it yourself. I wonder, that all you are so sure about your jobs and about you human (non-amended) skills.
 
arvo said:
p.s. you may name your profession and I can try to provide the current state of art of AI in automating it. Or you can simply Google it yourself. I wonder, that all you are so sure about your jobs and about you human (non-amended) skills.
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Considering I’m a software developer, the very profession making those AIs (thoughts on them aside), yes, I’m quite sure my job won’t be automated anytime soon.
 
Goedel machine - self-improving software http://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/goedelmachine.html They stopped they development efforts some 10 years ago, apparently, because the efficient AIXI apporximation has not been found at that time. But nothing prevents to revive these efforts. There are evolving architectures for neural networks and the automatic discovery of reinforcement learning algorithms [2007.08794] Discovering Reinforcement Learning Algorithms … but to whom I am trying to say all this. You are in the profession, you check arxiv every morning, so, you are already aware that can and can not be done today and what are prospects.

Interesting article how the formal mathematics formalizes the proof of God’s existence Scientists Use Computer to Mathematically Prove Gödel God Theorem - DER SPIEGEL
This proof is formalized in the proof assistant Isabelle which has this automatic proof discovery mechanism that I mentioned in my previous post. So, theology is being put on the firm foot and it can be automated as well therefore.
 
arvo said:
Goedel machine - self-improving software http://people.idsia.ch/~juergen/goedelmachine.html They stopped they development efforts some 10 years ago, apparently, because the efficient AIXI apporximation has not been found at that time. But nothing prevents to revive these efforts. There are evolving architectures for neural networks and the automatic discovery of reinforcement learning algorithms [2007.08794] Discovering Reinforcement Learning Algorithms … but to whom I am trying to say all this. You are in the profession, you check arxiv every morning, so, you are already aware that can and can not be done today and what are prospects.
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I’m not sure if you’re attempting to be sarcastic or not. But either way, I am not wrong: software development will not be automated anytime soon. To just say, “A machine meant to make things more efficient will do it”, is, frankly, an oversimplification, if not outright hand-waving.
arvo said:
Interesting article how the formal mathematics formalizes the proof of God’s existence Scientists Use Computer to Mathematically Prove Gödel God Theorem - DER SPIEGEL
This proof is formalized in the proof assistant Isabelle which has this automatic proof discovery mechanism that I mentioned in my previous post. So, theology is being put on the firm foot and it can be automated as well therefore.
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For someone who seems concerned with how rapidly technology is advancing in terms of automation, you seem to put a lot of stock in them.
 
The OP and the linked article are confusing categories of thought. It is as if they were attacking the Church of the Latter Day Saints on the basis of what Catholics have done.

‘Democratic Socialism’ is not the same as ‘Marxism-Leninism’ or ‘communism’. It is, for example, democratic in the usually-understood sense. And its ‘socialism’ consists of a state actively intervening in areas in which the private sector fails to promote the common good.

There is a good debate to be had over which system of political economy is best. But it is never a good debate when a participant conflates terms and obscures what it being discussed.
 
arvo said:
I you knew those things that I know you would feel and behave the same way.
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Oh, brother.

You know a conversation can’t proceed when someone effectively states:

“Literally the only way you could have a different opinion than mine is if you’re ignorant.”
 
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FiveLinden said:
‘Democratic Socialism’ is not the same as ‘Marxism-Leninism’ or ‘communism’. It is, for example, democratic in the usually-understood sense. And its ‘socialism’ consists of a state actively intervening in areas in which the private sector fails to promote the common good.
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Unfortunately this too has not succeeded in the real world. Even Sweden, held up as a great example of something approaching democratic socialism, went into a slump when they went too far left and only recovered when they loosened regulation, as the following article demonstrates.


The problem lied in state intervention beyond a certain point. While state intervention can be legitimate per the concept of subsidiarity, there is a point beyond which it seems to produce the exact opposite of it’s purported results.

I think this relates to what Hayek referred to as ‘the fatal conceit,’ the idea that deliberate planning can accomplish more effectively what millions of individual choices have accomplished more consistently.
 
You don’t have democratic socialism in the US, you have some social democrats. I can’t name an actual US politician who is anywhere near an actual left wing position.
 
FiveLinden said:
Whether it works or not, it is not, and not related to, Marxism-Leninism of communism, as claimed in the OP.
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It has several varieties — internationalist, nationalist, democratic, totalitarian, anarchist — but shares similarities across the board. All of them share base problems.
 
So do you advocate the sort of laissez-faire capitalism condemned by the Church? If not, what?
 
Who sincerely wants the Cuban, USSR, or China’s socialism?
It is a bit like discussing for the sake of discussing,imo…
Who honestly wants that here?
Not me by any stretch so that I give my answer also.
Neither does one want an absent state. Small almost inflexible and reduced to nothing
The State is there to “ subside”, support ,help develop the smaller entities, at least to begin with.That takes flexibility
One should at least by the same principle respect what the locals often in different countries find fitting to their culture, values etc that may not exactly be what one finds best for our own. And so how big or small a state really varies depending on various factors and sometimes current or temporary circumstances. Anyway as a state advances to “ subside and support” , retreating then is also expectable as a healthy measure.
It is interesting to think that our communities, municipalities, etc were formed mainly on subsidiarity principles, whether we realize or not so much
 
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FiveLinden said:
So do you advocate the sort of laissez-faire capitalism condemned by the Church? If not, what?
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That’s a straw man, as well as a false dichotomy.

I find it interesting that some Catholics will be quick to point out the socialism condemned by the Church was of the Marxist variety, while other forms are up for debate. But when it comes to capitalism the same argument could be made that what was condemned was Manchester liberalism, and not liberalism entire, to which Catholic social teaching bears more than a slight resemblance.
 
We are talking about worldviews, aren’t we? Capitalist, Communist and Christian.
They are different in how they see man, their relationships, and much more interesting to discuss.
But maybe you are interested in a different perhaps more local discussion . And that is fine. Interesting topics as was yours also on subsidiarity. It was a good idea, StudentMI
 
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graciew said:
We are talking about worldviews, aren’t we? Capitalist, Communist and Christian.
They are different in how they see man, their relationships, and much more interesting to discuss.
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I wouldn’t necessarily say world views. Not necessarily. Definitely some element of world view enters such discussion but I think socialism as a whole is a collection of world views. As is capitalism.

Perhaps off topic but I do believe a pure economics is possible independent of world views. Certainly such ‘infected’ classical political economy no less than modern economics, but I believe a ‘science’ of human action is possible. Mises’ idea of praxeology was a step in the right direction I think, though I don’t believe he got everything right.
 
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