Yet another question about copyright and piracy

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I know this has already been discussed, but I was just looking for general advice on some particular situations:

a) My cousins own a wide range of DVDs, all of which are copied. They know I do not like this, but what should I do if I am in their house (which I visit regularly) and they decide to watch one? Is it wrong for me to watch, since it is technically stolen?

b) Same as above, is it wrong to listen to downloaded music when I go to my friend’s house?

c) My sister’s friend lent her an illegally copied DVD. I told my sister not to watch it, and she was upset because she is quite young and doesn’t fully understand the problem. Was I right or wrong to do this?

I appreciate your help, I know this might seem silly but it has been on my mind a lot recently.
 
a) it is said that you should not follow what the people of this world do… if you are convinced this is wrong u should not either

b)Same as above

c) I’d like to share a verse with you… One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
(Romans 14:5 ESV)

If your a believer and your conscience tells u that something is wrong and u believe it then dont do it. But if another believer’s conscience tells them it is right and they are a believer then let it be. There are some things in this world that have a fine line between them which this is one of them and if each of you are convinced that it is either fine or wrong then theres no point in fighting over whos right.
 
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bkniceley:
There are some things in this world that have a fine line between them which this is one of them and if each of you are convinced that it is either fine or wrong then theres no point in fighting over whos right.
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Thanks for your reply. I think in this topic the line is so fine that it is barely visible. If I am honest, yours was not the answer I wanted, but the answer I already felt in my heart.

Thanks,
Sowndog
 
bkniceley,

When answering a & b, you got it right, but with c, I think you missed the mark on this one. And then your quote below really slips into relativism. My guess is that with Pope Benedict XVI we’ll all be hearing more about relativism.
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bkniceley:
If your a believer and your conscience tells u that something is wrong and u believe it then dont do it. But if another believer’s conscience tells them it is right and they are a believer then let it be. There are some things in this world that have a fine line between them which this is one of them and if each of you are convinced that it is either fine or wrong then theres no point in fighting over whos right.
Click to expand...
Sowndog,

Your heart has been doing a good job of telling you the truth. Stealing copywritten material is theft. As a big sister, you are a very important role model to your little sister. I’d suggest you talk to your mom about this and get her advice on how to help minimize the trauma to your sister. You may want to explain to your mom, if she doesn’t already understand, that it hurts you to break the law, even if it’s something so many others are doing.

If your mother disagrees and doesn’t want you troubling your little sister, remember that you must honor your mother, especially with regards to how she wants you to treat your little sister. Charity in how you handle the situation with your sister will go a long ways towards minimizing any trauma that could create a problem in your home.

I wish you the best of luck as you proceed.

CARose
 
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CARose:
bkniceley,

Your heart has been doing a good job of telling you the truth. Stealing copywritten material is theft. As a big sister, you are a very important role model to your little sister. I’d suggest you talk to your mom about this and get her advice on how to help minimize the trauma to your sister. You may want to explain to your mom, if she doesn’t already understand, that it hurts you to break the law, even if it’s something so many others are doing.

If your mother disagrees and doesn’t want you troubling your little sister, remember that you must honor your mother, especially with regards to how she wants you to treat your little sister. Charity in how you handle the situation with your sister will go a long ways towards minimizing any trauma that could create a problem in your home.

I wish you the best of luck as you proceed.

CARose
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Thanks for the advice, CARose, I will certainly take those ideas on board.
As a big sister, you are a very important role model to your little sister.
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Just have to clarify that I am her big brother, not sister. :o
 
Well, that’s a toughy. I kinda am swayed in the direction that you might not like it, but at the same time you don’t want to hurt your friend’s feelings by leaving the room. I would probably stay, but not participate in copying of the movies. And, if you have any intention of watching a movie when you go over there, rent one on the way. Then, if they all decide to watch something else, you still made an effort.

Eamon
 
yeah id also agree that you should set an example of what you think is right and maybe she will realize that too but im just saying its an issue like this:
A Christian believes that they should take up a day of the week (the sabbath) and use it as a daily offering to god and keep it holy.
The other realizes that every day should be raised up to god and offered to him
Each one thinks they are right in their own minds.
Some matters are disputable… the beliefs and practices that some christians believe are important are unimportant to others. its a matter for tolerance and not a matter for division or criticism.

When we are trying to please God, we all must be gracious toward one another’s doctrinal errors. The bible does tells us to avoid doing certain things but it doesnt address every situation such as this one and therefore there will be difference in opinion
 
Actually BK, you need to be careful about where you draw that line. Our current culture of political correctness would have us believe that Charity means tolerating whatever anyone else thinks is right.

Actually, true charity requires that we treat one another with gentleness but correct error when encountered.

CARose
 
Your replies have been great, thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut everyone.
The situatuion with my sister happened yesterday, and after speaking with her again today I was overjoyed at how she had accepted what I had to say. I think I will rent the movie for her because I feel so bad for stopping her from watching it.
I suppose my main struggle now is still A and B of my original question. turboEDvo made a very good point about leaving the room - this would probably be an over-reaction.

I was thinking about the subject of piracy a lot today, and I thought I would share some of the rationalizations that have been creeping into my mind. Bear in mind these are hypothetical and I do not neccessarily agree with them:
  • If my friend had a real CD he wanted me to hear, and he sent it to me over the net, why is this worse than me going round to his house to hear it?
  • Similarly, what is the difference between my friend and me watching a DVD together in his house, and watching the same movie in our own houses when he has the real one and I have a copy? I mean, if we could somehow link one DVD player to both of our TVs and watch one real DVD in two different houses, this would be fine. Is having a copy not just a more convenient way of doing that?
  • In other words, what exactly is the sin? Watching something that hasn’t been paid for? If I see a legal DVD in my friends house, I haven’t paid for it, but he has, and this is perfectly legal. If he copies it for me and I watch it, then we both still watch the movie, the producers still got the same amount of money, but this is wrong?
 
this is exactly the reason why i dont agree with the copyright laws and that it is indeed stealing… ill be honest with u… i am in a christian ripping group that copies christian music, movies, and bible software. What we do is we host these types of multimedia and users from all over the world such as bulgaria and china download these. These countries have banned everything christian-related including bibles, music, and movies. And if Jesus were in my shoes do u think that he would not do this and reply to the people… “oh im sorry but i cant show u my word or my message because of copyright laws.” I just dont see him doing this at all. And there are many things that dont make sense at all with copyright such as the above statements that you made. I think its up to the believer to pray to god and ask him to show u the truth. I dono its just a hard issue to wrestle with.
 
Sowndog,

Christ said, give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. He didn’t say, if you like what is owed, pay it, otherwise, skip it.

You may not like the law, but it is the law and you need to obey. As a Catholic, we learn that we need to obey authority, that all authority is God Given. The only exception to obeying authority is if you are asked to do something against Faith and Morals. I hardly think you can make a claim that it’s against your faith or morals to pay to listen to music.

OK, so here’s another completely different answer, based on the fact that the artists and their companies (studios and recording companies) need to make a profit if they are to stay in business and continue to keep new artists work flowing. They’ve put in their work and now if we like the product, we are required to pay to enjoy it. That’s just the way the law works. The license doesn’t allow you to broadcast (e.g. your example of wiring your TV to your friends DVD player).

BK, welcome to a Catholic Forum. Please know that your advice to a Catholic young adult is contrary to what the Catholic Church teaches.

CARose
 
As a person that has worked in the software industry, I am constantly explaining copyright laws to people that think that if they can copy a CD or DVD it should be legal to do so. I even have folks that try to tell me that they are entitled to make 1 copy of their software(not true), CD or DVD for their own personal use. I also have a very good friend that is in a (Catholic) Christian band and teaches computer classes at our local Catholic grade school. We have discussed our viewpoints on copying any CD’s or DVD’s. The point is it is morally wrong to copy a CD or DVD for the express purpose of owning it without having to buy it or to distribute it. BUT…Some artists like my friend don’t really mind it too much because they feel that if you like their music that you have downloaded from the internet or copied from someone elses CD you will go out and buy their CD. I happen to disagree with my friend. The software I worked with took many people many hours to write, test and market. We all have to feed our chilren too. In countries like the US only about 25% of software, CD’s and DVD’s are pirated. In Europe about 50%, South Africa, Brazil and Japan are at about 75% while Russia, Malaysia, Indonesia and many other countries are at almost 100%. If everyone actually paid for the media that they are receiving legally, the prices on all of these things would significantly decrease because we would not have to develop schemes to prevent piracy.
a.) Bring your own legal DVD’s over to your cousins house and ask if they want to watch it. If you are not afraid to tell them that you think what they are doing is wrong, let them know that you do not wish to watch anything that has been copied illegally.
b.) Same as above
c.) I would have to say, try to explain it to her this way; When you copy CD’s or DVD’s the money that you save from not paying for it is like stealing that money from a person that worked very hard to get it. Trust me, there were many such discussions with my kids before they understood. It finally sunk in with my kids and now my son has a DJ service and has legal CD’s for all his collection or has legal rights from reputable download sites that send procedes to the artists.
 
Thank you Blesst one,

I am in complete agreement with you on this. Perhaps the software connection is why it’s so easy for us to understand the reality of copyright infringment! My dad work in SW when the industry was just getting started (I wrote BASIC and COBOL when I was a kid and it was considered “amazing”, this was in the days of keypunch cards to submit my programs batch to the district computer in HS).

I then spent a number of years in the SW industry and you are right about piracy. It undermines the industries.

This brings us right back to the concepts of relativism. In Russia and China, you would be considered weird to actually seek to pay for the SW you use, and yet if the entire world took that view, we couldn’t continue to develop new software. Let’s respect the artist and their recording companies, the actors, all those involved in making films and their studios. These are businesses that serve a consumer.

The laws exist to protect both the consumer and the industry. Without the industry, we will no longer have the films or music to steal.

CARose
 
CARose and BlestOne, I agree with both of you on this matter. While this remains a difficult issue to define, your posts have definately helped me to achieve a more developed understanding. Most of my doubts have now been settled.

Thank you for your help and concern.
Sowndog
 
CA Rose…Gosh I think I was the east coast version of you! I was writing basic and fortran in high school (and a little of assembler), did an internship where they used their own language called Candy. Then in college I was doing fortran again and cobol (hated it) after that I have taken so many different courses in VB, C, C++ etc…hehehehehe
 
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