Yoga's spirituality is no threat to Christianity

[Montalban]

Oh puhleeze - one of the ‘poses’ consists of nothing more demonic - or religious - than touching your toes. Another consists of the equally innocent act of standing on tippytoes with your hands stretched above your head.

Matthew 12:30
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 11:23
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.

 

[LilyM]

Matthew 12:30
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 11:23
"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me, scatters.

You’re telling me people who touch their toes are going against Christ now?

 

[Montalban]

You’re telling me people who touch their toes are going against Christ now?

If you do anything dedicated to something other than Christ then how could you be doing something *for *Christ?

Intent is important. Yoga was designed by non-Christians to bring people closer to spiritual forces that are not God.

However even Catholics believe in sins through non-intent, too. Unintentional sin is still a sin.

Even the Old Testament had unintentional sin
Numbers 15:27-31

So whether you intentionally do anything dedicated to something other than God, or not, you’re still doing something not dedicated to God; that’s dedicated to spiritual forces that are opposed to God.

 

[LilyM]

Intent is important. Yoga was designed by non-Christians to bring people closer to spiritual forces that are not God.

Yes intent is important - the intent of the individual DOING yoga counts as much as if not more than the intent of the inventor!!!

However even Catholics believe in sins through non-intent, too. Unintentional sin is still a sin.

Wrong. You can sin in ***some ***ways if you are negligent or careless or mixed up in your intent. However you CANNOT accidentally worship a false God :nope: Never. Show me one place in the Bible where someone worships a false God either without intending to or with the intent of worshipping the One True God. There aren’t any.

In fact isn’t that our standard defence against Mariolatry - that what may LOOK like worship isn’t because our INTENT is not to worship her???

So whether you intentionally do anything dedicated to something other than God, or not, you’re still doing something not dedicated to God; that’s dedicated to spiritual forces that are opposed to God.

Something else for you to ponder my friend.

Mark 9:38-42 " ‘Teacher,’ said John, ‘we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he wasn’t one of us.’ ‘Do not stop him,’ Jesus said, ‘No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.’ "

Something that’s not dedicated to God is not automatically opposed to him - there are neutral things in this world. Like physical exercise. Of which yoga is one type.

 

[Montalban]

Yes intent is important - the intent of the individual DOING yoga counts as much as if not more than the intent of the inventor!!!

Yoga was designed for a specific purpose which was to bring oneself closer to a particular spiritual force.

Wrong. You can sin in ***some ***ways if you are negligent or careless or mixed up in your intent. However you CANNOT accidentally worship a false God Never. Show me one place in the Bible where someone worships a false God either without intending to or with the intent of worshipping the One True God. There aren’t any.

You want an argument restricted to the Bible alone? I thought you were Catholic!
There’s heaps of Catholic teachings on how certain practices are Satanic and can lead to demonic possession… whether the person intends to worship Satan, or not they can still be influenced, because they participate in certain practices, or allow themselves to be immersed in certain things that are Satanic in origin.

In fact isn’t that our standard defence against Mariolatry - that what may LOOK like worship isn’t because our INTENT is not to worship her???

That’s not an example. Something that was never designed to worship Mary and is not intentionally meant as worship of Mary is not the same thing as something that WAS designed to worship false spirits.

Something else for you to ponder my friend.
Mark 9:38-42 " ‘Teacher,’ said John, ‘we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he wasn’t one of us.’ ‘Do not stop him,’ Jesus said, ‘No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us.’ "
Something that’s not dedicated to God is not automatically opposed to him - there are neutral things in this world. Like physical exercise. Of which yoga is one type.

That’s why I qualified my statement by saying that something not dedicated to God AND dedicated to something other than God - as in a false spirit.
I said this at the end of my last post as I realised one might make the argument you now try…

Montalban:

So whether you intentionally do anything dedicated to something other than God, or not, you’re still doing something not dedicated to God; that’s dedicated to spiritual forces that are opposed to God.

Thus I don’t maintain that using a computer is evil, even if a computer is not ‘dedicated to God’.

 

[LilyM]

Yoga was designed for a specific purpose which was to bring oneself closer to a particular spiritual force.

So it may have been.

And so the title ‘Pontifex Maximus’ was designed for a specific purpose too - to honour the chief priests of the pagan Roman Gods. Yet the Popes have borne it for centuries with no apparent desire on the part of any of them to start worshipping Jupiter or Venus!

I think the intent of the CURRENT bearer of the title matters just a tad more than its original purpose.

And what about Christmas trees - not only did they originate in a pagan custom, but there are still neopagans around who follow it as a pagan custom!!! I do hope you’re not going to tell me that decorating a tree to honour Christmas is demonic

 

[DiZent]

Oh puhleeze - one of the ‘poses’ consists of nothing more demonic - or religious - than touching your toes. Another consists of the equally innocent act of standing on tippytoes with your hands stretched above your head.

Acts that most athletes and many children and dancers do all the time, since we’re divorcing them from any accompanying meditation or philosophy or mindset.

Are these athletes, children and dancers too opening themselves to demonic influences? To suggest they or anyone who makes the same motions in yoga is doing so, or inadvertently doing a religious activity doesn’t make a heck of a lot of sense.

The article was by Laurette Willis - who created Praise Moves as an alternative to yoga. She wants to sell her product. She has renamed the poses and does them to Christian prayer & scripture readings. It looks like a pretty good workout, and it also looks a lot like yoga.

When I decided to try yoga for exercise & relaxation, I had no idea that it was controversial until I saw one of these threads on CAF. The instructor for my class was pretty neutral with the spirituality, indicating that yoga practice was compatible with any religion or none. Kind of like AA - as we understood. I found it compatible with my faith. For me, “the God within me and you” - is the indwelling Holy Spirit. Nothing more, nothing less.

However, I am glad I found these threads and approached yoga with some caution. Not all yoga is alike, and a lot depends on the instructor. Some might introduce eastern or new age philosophy. It could be confusing for someone not well grounded in their faith, poorly catechized, young, etc.

My conclusion was that yoga as exercise was fine (intent), and that I needed to choose a yoga DVD with a Christian instructor.

 

[LilyM]

The article was by Laurette Willis - who created Praise Moves as an alternative to yoga. She wants to sell her product. She has renamed the poses and does them to Christian prayer & scripture readings. It looks like a pretty good workout, and it also looks a lot like yoga.

My conclusion was that yoga as exercise was fine (intent), and that I needed to choose a yoga DVD with a Christian instructor.

All excellent points. Not all yoga is automatically to be shunned is all.

 

[Montalban]

So it may have been.

And so the title ‘Pontifex Maximus’ was designed for a specific purpose too - to honour the chief priests of the pagan Roman Gods. Yet the Popes have borne it for centuries with no apparent desire on the part of any of them to start worshipping Jupiter or Venus!

In fact Tertullian spoke out against this.

In opposition to this (modesty), could I not have acted the dissembler? I hear that there has even been an edict set forth, and a peremptory one too. The Pontifex Maximus -that is, the bishop of bishops -issues an edict: “I remit, to such as have discharged (the requirements of) repentance, the sins both of adultery and of fornication.” O edict, on which cannot be inscribed, “Good deed!” And where shall this liberality be posted up? On the very spot, I suppose, on the very gates of the sensual appetites, beneath the very titles of the sensual appetites. There is the place for promulgating such repentance, where the delinquency itself shall haunt. There is the place to read the pardon, where entrance shall be made under the hope thereof. But it is in the church that this (edict) is read, and in the church that it is pronounced; and (the church) is a virgin! Far, far from Christ’s betrothed be such a proclamation! She, the true, the modest, the saintly, shall be free from stain even of her ears. She has none to whom to make such a promise; and if she have had, she does not make it; since even the earthly temple of God can sooner have been called by the Lord a “den of robbers,” than of adulterers and fornicators
Tertullian
Treatise VII. On Modesty
ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-04/anf04-19.htm#P1279_349605

Used in a sense of cutting irony, Tertullian applies a heathen epithet to Victor

I think the intent of the CURRENT bearer of the title matters just a tad more than its original purpose.

That would involve me in a totally different argument, because I am Orthodox and therefore don’t accept this as ‘evidence’.

And what about Christmas trees - not only did they originate in a pagan custom, but there are still neopagans around who follow it as a pagan custom!!! I do hope you’re not going to tell me that decorating a tree to honour Christmas is demonic

Moving further and further away from yoga…Yoga is a set of exercises to put one into a frame of mind to make one more open/susceptible to counterfeit spiritual forces. ANYTHING designed to draw you to some such influence is spiritually dangerous.