Yosef Nadarkhani: Wait! Don't Kill The Apostate [Islam and Apostasy]

[Ahimsa]

A 2011 Pew survey showed that 86% of Jordanians, 84% of Egyptians, 76% of Pakistanis, 51% of Nigerians and 30% of Indonesians supporting death penalty for apostasy.

Remember, there are well over 500 million Muslims just in these five countries. In corporate terms, that’s like 350 employees who have never read (or misread) their company’s policy and procedures manual: The Quran.

The Quran refers to apostasy several times (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91, 47:25-27) and yet never prescribes any worldly punishment for it, let alone death.

So how do millions of Muslims justify such a barbaric act in the name of Islam? Well, because their clerics claim that leaving Islam is not just apostasy, but treason - a crime punishable by death.

What non-sense. Merriam-Webster dictionary’s defines treason as, “the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign’s family or the betrayal of trust.” Apostasy, conversely, poses no danger to the government or anyone’s sovereignty.

 

[schaick]

Ahimsa:
Here it is:

4.88 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

4.89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Hadith:
Allah’s Apostle said, “The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas [like-for-like punishment] for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.” (Bukari)

. . . The news of this event reached Ibn Abbas [Muhammad’s cousin and highly reliable transmitter of traditions] who said, “If I had been in his [Ali’s] place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Messenger forbad it, saying, ‘Do no punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah Messenger, ‘Whoever change his Islamic religion, then kill him.’” (Bukhari, Apostates, no. 6922;

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

There are a few here:
cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/084-sbt.php
Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
Narrated 'Ikrima:

Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

 

[CompSciGuy]

I recently read that the Iranian courts have recently changed the charges against him from apostasy to “rape and extortion.” How strange, since the only charge against him up to that point had been apostasy, and converting others to Christianity. This was the only charge held against him in the trial documents. I think that they probably made up these charges in order to justify themselves, and defame Nadarkhani, in the eyes of the rest of the world.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Confession: I am jealous that Yosef Nadarkhani has been thrice given the opportunity to renounce Christianity & has refused! And may actually given an opportunity to die for Jesus Christ, to become a martyr, the blood of martyrs water the seeds of faith and through one man’s death many Christians may sprout up in his place. What an amazing opportunity Yosef Nadarkjhani has.

Holy God please strengthen Yosef’s faith to the end and grant that somehow I too can die for love of You and Your Holy Church.

 

[Crdl2Grv]

Confession: I am jealous that Yosef Nadarkhani has been thrice given the opportunity to renounce Christianity & has refused! And may actually given an opportunity to die for Jesus Christ, to become a martyr,

With respect, that’s an absolutely awful thing to be jealous of.

 

[Cavaradossi]

Confession: I am jealous that Yosef Nadarkhani has been thrice given the opportunity to renounce Christianity & has refused! And may actually given an opportunity to die for Jesus Christ, to become a martyr, the blood of martyrs water the seeds of faith and through one man’s death many Christians may sprout up in his place. What an amazing opportunity Yosef Nadarkjhani has.

Holy God please strengthen Yosef’s faith to the end and grant that somehow I too can die for love of You and Your Holy Church.

I don’t think that one should be seeking martyrdom. Either it comes to you by coincidence of life, or it doesn’t

 

[CompSciGuy]

I don’t think that one should be seeking martyrdom. Either it comes to you by coincidence of life, or it doesn’t

Right. I remember reading about some of the saints, how when they were young they aspired to go into Moorish Spain and preach in order to seek out their own martyrdom, and later recanted such aspirations as vanity and self-glorification. The goal of preaching the gospel is always for the salvation of souls, martyrdom should never be an end in and of itself.

 

[someguy14]

We hould start getting land in those countries and building churchs.

 

[cmforte]

You know what is ***really ***scary? At least three of those countries have a seat on the UN so-called “Human Rights Council”!! UN…what a joke.

-Chris

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Right. I remember reading about some of the saints, how when they were young they aspired to go into Moorish Spain and preach in order to seek out their own martyrdom, and later recanted such aspirations as vanity and self-glorification. The goal of preaching the gospel is always for the salvation of souls, martyrdom should never be an end in and of itself.

Anything done for the sake of vain-glory is to be utterly rejected as sinful!

Christians are to be followers & imitators of Jesus Christ who was Martyred for the Salvation of the world. There are so many martyrs from the first centuries, beginning with St. Stephen, prior to the legalization of Christianity. I’ve read some of their lives and they wanted to be martyred and did not shy away from it even though they were given opportunities to recant just like the 3 chances Yoseph has been given. Where there are martyrs many more conversions follow as well documented by the Church in the lives of the saints through out the last 2,000 years and through out the world.

To be given the great honor to die for the Love of Jesus Christ and His Church in imitation of Jesus and the Holy Martyrs is a gift.

Living in the U.S. it’s unlikely you or I will be given the opportunity to shed our blood through martyrdom although we should live our lives ready and willing to do so.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

We hould start getting land in those countries and building churchs.

Iran probably has laws against building churches. I know Egypt does.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

I don’t think that one should be seeking martyrdom. Either it comes to you by coincidence of life, or it doesn’t

I wouldn’t say be “coincidence”, but by the “Will of God”. Right, no one should go out of their way to try to get martyred, but if presented with the ability to chose to die for Christ and His Church or to live by rejecting Him or His Church then you should accept it humbly as the great gift and honor it is to be given an opportunity to die for Jesus out of Love for Him just as He died for you.

 

[someguy14]

Iran probably has laws against building churches. I know Egypt does.

That will not stop us bro .

 

[MorningSong51]

how does this hold with Signatories

Since the letter was originally sent on 18 October 2007, there have been a number of new signatories with the result that there are now over 300 Muslim signatories. Great effort was made to ensure signatories represented as broad a range of viewpoints from the Muslim world as possible. Signatories included:

Contents of the Letter

List of Addressees
Summary and Abridgement
Love of God
Love of God in Islam
Love of God as the First and Greatest Commandment in the Bible
Love of the Neighbour
Love of the Neighbour in Islam
Love of the Neighbour in the Bible
Come to a Common Word Between Us and You
Notes
Signatories

[edit] Main quotations from the Letter

“Muslims and Christians together make up well over half of the world’s population. Without peace and justice between these two religious communities, there can be no meaningful peace in the world. The future of the world depends on peace between Muslims and Christians.”

“The basis for this peace and understanding already exists. It is part of the very foundational principles of both faiths: love of the One God, and love of the neighbour. These principles are found over and over again in the sacred texts of Islam and Christianity.”

““Of God’s Unity, God says in the Holy Qu’ran: “Say, He is God, the One! God, the Self Sufficient Besought of all! (Al – Ikhlas 112:1–2).” Of the necessity of love for God, God says in the Holy Qu’ran: “So invoke the Name of thy Lord and devote thyself to him with a complete devotion (Al-Muzzammil 73:8).” Of the necessity of love for the neighbour; the prophet Muhammad said: “None of you has faith until you love for your neighbour what you love for yourself.”

“In the New Testament, Jesus Christ said: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One./ And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.” This is the first commandment. / And the second, like it, is this: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12: 29–31)

“In obedience to the Holy Qu’ran, we as Muslims invite Christians to come together with us on the basis of what is common to us, which is also what is most essential to our faith and practice: the Two Commandments.”

(In Islam)...”the call to be totally devoted and attached to God, heart and soul, far from being a call for a mere emotion or for a mood, is in fact an injunction requiring all-embracing, constant and active love of God. It demands a love in which the innermost spiritual heart and the whole of the soul-with its intelligence, will and feeling – participate through devotion.”

 

[MorningSong51]

LINK: A Common Word Between Us and You

“The Shema in the book of Deuteronomy (6:4–5), a centrepiece of the Old Testament and of Jewish Liturgy, says: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!/You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength.””

“In the New Testament, when Jesus Christ, the Messiah, is asked about the Greatest Commandment, he answers: “But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, the gathered together./Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying,/”Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?”/Jesus said to him, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”/This is the first and greatest commandment./And the second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” /On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:34–40).”

“The commandment to love God fully is (thus) the First and Greatest Commandment of the Bible.”

“There are numerous injunctions in Islam about the necessity and paramount importance of love for – and mercy towards – the neighbour. Love of the neighbour is an essential and integral part of faith in God and love of God because in Islam without love of the neighbour there is no true faith in God and no righteousness. The Prophet Muhammad said: “None of you has faith until you love for your brother what you love for yourself.” And: “None of you has faith until you love for your neighbour what you love for yourself.””

“Whilst Islam and Christianity are obviously different religions – and whilst there is no minimising some of their formal differences – it is clear that the Two Greatest Commandments are an area of common ground and a link between the Qu’ran, the Torah and the New Testament.”

“In the Holy Qu’ran, God Most High tells Muslims to issue the following call to Christians (and Jews-the People of the Scripture): “Say: O people of the Scripture! Come to a common word between us and you: that we shall worship none but God, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside God. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).” (Aal’Imran 3:64)”

“As Muslims, we say to Christians that we are not against them and that Islam is not against them – so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them and drive them out of their homes, (in accordance with the verse of the Holy Qu’ran (Al-Mumtahinah, 60:8)”

“Muslims recognise Jesus Christ as the Messiah, not in the same way Christians do (but Christians themselves anyway have never all agreed with each other on Jesus Christ’s nature), but in the following way: ...the Messiah Jesus son of Mary is a Messenger of God and His Word which He cast unto Mary and a Spirit from Him..(Al – Nisa 4: 171). We therefore invite Christians to consider Muslims not against and thus with them, in accordance with Jesus Christ’s words here.”

“Finding common ground between Muslims and Christians is not simply a matter for polite ecumenical dialogue between selected religious leaders. Christianity and Islam are the largest and second largest religions in the world and in history. Christians and Muslims reportedly make up over a third and over a fifth of humanity respectively. Together they make up more than 55% of the world’s population, making the relationship between these two communities the most important factor in contributing to meaningful peace around the world. With the terrible weaponry of the modern world; with Muslims and Christians intertwined everywhere as never before, no side can unilaterally win a conflict between more than half of the world’s inhabitants. Thus our common future is at stake. The very survival of the world itself is perhaps at stake.”

“Let us respect each other, be fair, just and kind to one another and live in sincere peace, harmony and mutual good will.”

There are many issues to think about if this man is killed for his faith.

 

[MorningSong51]

Re: Yosef Nadarkhani: Wait! Don’t Kill The Apostate [Islam and Apostasy]

A Very Good Title, Ahimsa!

At Pentecost, when the Spirit of Truth descended on the apostles, a change was taking place – as with Jacob’s name, a change from being “one” person, (“heel holder” or “supplanter”) transforming into another, that being “Israel” - a promise (“G-d prevails”). In the same way as our Lord changed Peter’s name from Simon, son of Jonas, he was referred to as, “Thou art a rock”. Thou hast shown thyself firm, and suitable for the work of laying the foundation of the church." - meaning, and comparing this with Jacob, “because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.” Peter, as our Lord said “thou has shown thyself firm!” - as with the angel intend with Jacob, he was suitable for the work laid before him, he has shown strength - Firmness.

This man will lay the foundation of the Christian faith by standing firm in his faith - I pray that he will be released and with his family again. Remember this thought on scripture, the apostles were given a charge (a delivering) over the entire ministry in Christ’s name with great joy at Pentecost. The Old Testament Lectionary reading for Pentecost Sunday from Ezekiel’s vision of the valley of dry bones (Ezek 37:1-14) dramatically illustrates this sense of newness and renewal of mission. The reading from Isaiah 44:1-8 also connects renewal with the “breathing” of God in beautiful imagery of “streams in the desert” and the recreation of His exiled people. The message to deliver to the people, “And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved”. At that time, the Sanhedrin thought if this charge (a seal) from God, and the scriptures read, Acts5:34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35Then he addressed them: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

So strengthen our brother with Prayers and ask God for his release! - He will be laying a foundations down, all of us will be a witness to God’s delivery of this man and the decisions that will made about his life.

Peace!
Mary

Reference:

LINK: The Church Year: Pentecost

 

[Peace_of_cake]

Gosh! Some on this thread sound like those crazy suicide bombers… Glad they have been tempered by sensible responses
To be honest not sure why this anti apostasy law feeling is amongst us Catholics We have a long history if burning ours! If it’s all done with the due process of law and in the context of a truly confessional state then why not? From our perspective our laws of apostasy are no longer applicable - not because there wrong - since no country truly has the same concept of the state that was in place when these laws were formed.
The Muslim nations have the same problem, but since their 500 years behind us in their dealing with modern ideas of the state, they still have difficulties. Things are really complex in Persia and Arabia and are in constant flux, it’ll take time but eventually we’ll probably get a more modern savvy Islamic state.
In all honesty why is this guy not just saying oh actually I’m mistaken getting off then going and doing some good work somewhere else? Sounds like a publicity stunt to me. I don’t know his intentions, but if they’re for anything other than the love of God then they’re worthless. I think these actions will just cause hatred and conflict… How Christian is that?
As MorningSong51 has said let’s just pray and maybe spen a bit more time in trying to understand how this mess that is modernity could be Christianised into something resembling the sentiments of the Papal monarchy of the medieval period.

 

[MorningSong51]

Gosh! Some on this thread sound like those crazy suicide bombers… Glad they have been tempered by sensible responses
To be honest not sure why this anti apostasy law feeling is amongst us Catholics We have a long history if burning ours! If it’s all done with the due process of law and in the context of a truly confessional state then why not? From our perspective our laws of apostasy are no longer applicable - not because there wrong - since no country truly has the same concept of the state that was in place when these laws were formed.
The Muslim nations have the same problem, but since their 500 years behind us in their dealing with modern ideas of the state, they still have difficulties. Things are really complex in Persia and Arabia and are in constant flux, it’ll take time but eventually we’ll probably get a more modern savvy Islamic state.
In all honesty why is this guy not just saying oh actually I’m mistaken getting off then going and doing some good work somewhere else? Sounds like a publicity stunt to me. I don’t know his intentions, but if they’re for anything other than the love of God then they’re worthless. I think these actions will just cause hatred and conflict… How Christian is that?
As MorningSong51 has said let’s just pray and maybe spend a bit more time in trying to understand how this mess that is modernity could be Christianized into something resembling the sentiments of the Papal monarchy of the medieval period.

Thank you, but the laws in either countries,that being - Persia and Arabia, are quite different on their approach, Shia verses Sunni Muslims. So this particular issue will be watched by all.

Mary