You Don't Need to be Celibate to "Love God with an Undivided Heart"

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I’m not sure that I follow you and vice versa. What makes you think that I was equating pure love only with the sexual? Or were you subconsciously trying to re-characterize my argument to make it easier to dismiss?
The link I provided (I’m guessing you didn’t read it in its entirety) explained the point I was making - that there is a sacrificial dimension in priestly celibacy that “goes the extra mile” that is not understood.
Anyway your point about mortification is valid, but I’m sure you’d agree that one can practice self-less love in the context of marriage. Don’t you see that love is love is love? God is love.
A holy marriage sanctioned by the church, if that is the vocation God has called you to, can and must certainly be self-less, lest the marriage fail. Spouses are called to walk the holy life together; to assist each other in achieving the end for which man is made – eternal life. The celibate life, by contrast, is not to be viewed with negative connotations but rather to recognize the positive spiritual benefits it is intended to provide. To be celibate is not to run away from the intimacies of life with another person, but to run toward the Creator for something greater.
The more you love someone, truly love someone, not in a selfish way, but in a self-less way, the way a good husband might love his spouse, then at the same time you are also loving God?
While this is true it also applies to consecrated virginity and the yearning to give one’s all to God. “ To give Christ your whole attention and to have everything you are and do be filtered through this reality of spousal union with him is the very definition of consecrated celibacy. As in all good marriages where the spouses begin to imitate each other so too does the celibate who spends a lifetime seeking to be closer to Christ begin over time to act more and more like his or her Heavenly Spouse. Celibate spousal love is a journey as are all spousal loves.”

Celibacy has been described as a radical transformation – the sacrifice for the purpose of an intimate union with Christ that makes one forget all the other “loves” of this world. Not everyone is called to this way of life, but it seems to me your thread is mislabeled. Celibacy seems the most obvious way to love God with an undivided heart.
 
It does not say that one needs to be celibate to love God with an undivided heart.

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men…

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm#1579

For all Christians (all persons!):

2133 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strength” (Deut 6:5).
 
As I am not a member of any particular religion, the above questions don’t apply to me.

And you know what those reasons are?
Would you like to elaborate on them?

The teachings on the value of virginity are not hurting anyone.

Although they may be “hurting” some people’s pride or preconceived notions …

I thought people are Catholic because they have received the sacraments as given by the Catholic Church and are members of the Catholic Church.

I don’t think so.
Mandatory celibacy of priests is one of the things that attracts me to Catholicism.
One of the main reasons I distanced myself from Protestantisms was that I was too unease about their priests being married.

I think “loving one’s spouse” does take away from loving God. Because God and one’s spouse are two persons, not one. So one has to choose between one and the other.

Which in the context of this forum is not a fallacious appeal to authority.

Well, if you propose non-Catholic ideas, then what does that make you …
God bless you for your common sense and courage.
 
It does not say that one needs to be celibate to love God with an undivided heart.

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men…

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm#1579

For all Christians (all persons!):

2133 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strength” (Deut 6:5).
 
It’s funny… Some people think I’m wrong because they think that being married prevents you from loving God with an undivided heart. Others think I’m wrong because they don’t think the Church teaches that in the first place. Finally, at least one person actually agrees with me but still thinks I’m wrong because he doesn’t pay enough attention to my posts.

Alright, I think I’m done here. Thanks for showing me what kind of Catholic I don’t want to be. 👍
 
DavidGonzalez. You said:
Some people think I’m wrong because they think that being married prevents you from loving God with an undivided heart.
Hold on there, David.

The best way to love God with an undivided heart is to do God’s will. Some are called to the married life. But some are called to a celibate virginal life too.

For example: I specifically said:
If God calls you to marriage, then you need to get married to love the Lord in the best way possible . . . . (This is morality in the subjective order)
But be careful not to conflate morality in the subjective order, with morality in the objective order.

We don’t all have cookie-cutter callings from God.

To those who are called to the celibate life, to those who DO have this grace, to those who desire in conjunction with grace, “to follow the lamb wherever He goes”, is just the person that the Church wants to consider for the Priesthood.

The Priesthood isn’t all that it is; merely for the benefit of the Priest himself (in this world).

The priesthood is a call to serve for you . . . and I . . . and others. It is a call to servanthood in a unique way.

The virginal celibate life is better objectively because they are (by grace) conforming their life as best they can to the person of Jesus Christ now in this world. They don’t have to wait until they get to Heaven (where we are neither married nor given in marriage) to conform to Jesus in such a radical way with regards to their sexuality.

(Incidentally. I am not saying once in Heaven there is nothing special in Heaven for people who were husbands and wives in this world. I am sure what God has prepared is beyond what we could come up with. But it won’t be mere earthly marriage.)

Not all are called to such radical discipleship of giving of one’s self for God to this degree. Not all are called to imitate Christ to this degree with their sexuality. Not all are called to this high level of self-donation—but some are.

Some are called to renounce power (they take a vow of obedience). Some people are called to give up material things such as money in a radical way too (they take a vow of poverty). Some are not.

Some David, are even called to lay down their very lives in martyrdom.

These are all forms of radical self-donation that the Church recognizes and extols.

In Heaven we are neither married nor given in marriage. This is revealed truth. It is not a natural philosophy in the sense that you can appeal to the world with.

The world will never understand these types of things David. The cross, which is the encapsulation of self-donation, is folly to the world. Not only is it folly, it is “stench” to the world.

2nd CORINTHIANS 2:14-16a 14 But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumph, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. 15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, 16 to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life.

Consider (who I call the potential thirteenth Apostle. The possible “thirteenth Apostle” who never was an Apostle—but probably could have been) the man who was called to a radical poverty but refused:

**
MARK 10:17, 21-22** 17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” . . . . 21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

Yet contrast this with Sts. Peter and Andrew:

MATTHEW 4:18-20 18 As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. 19 And he said to them, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.” 20 Immediately they left their nets and followed him.

Why would we want to take this gift and grace away from those like St. Peter and St. Andrew, who are called to this level of giving (who also have the accompanying grace to carry it out), especially when they are called to this level of giving for people like you and I? And . . . .

. . . And will be rewarded accordingly in Heaven. (Why take this gift of self-giving away from them?)
 
It’s funny… Some people think I’m wrong because they think that being married prevents you from loving God with an undivided heart. Others think I’m wrong because they don’t think the Church teaches that in the first place. Finally, at least one person actually agrees with me but still thinks I’m wrong because he doesn’t pay enough attention to my posts.

Alright, I think I’m done here. Thanks for showing me what kind of Catholic I don’t want to be. 👍
Sorry, but I perceive a bit of hubris here. Could be that I err. I would suggest it’s a bit of a both/and paradigm we’re looking at. The orthodox Catholic does not place his reason above that of the sensus fidelium.

I might go so far as to say, however, that it could be possible if looked at from the right perspective that both opposing premises could be true, but I’m not sure about it.

I can’t think of a single person in scripture that was not a virgin or celibate and had an undivided heart. Can you? David was a man after God’s own heart, yet he had his imperfections, his heart was not 100% devoted to God it seems to me. Our Lady may have been married, but she was yet a virgin at the same time. I would say that she had an undivided heart. So perhaps it is almost…both/and.

Just some musings…that’s all.
 
Someone on this thread pointed out that I had conflated celibacy & consecrated virginity here and that they are not the same.

He was right and I want to clarify and correct my mistake.

Here is how I responded. (I have a quote from Trent showing that both are esteemed, but they are different).

My apologies.
 
Others think I’m wrong because they don’t think the Church teaches that in the first place.
Actually, that’s not it at all. It’s just that you can’t argue your point from an interpretation of the catechism that twists its meanings. Do you want to argue that married people can “love God with an undivided heart”? Great – have at it! Just don’t try to tear down the Church by misquoting the CCC and claiming that the Church is at odds with your personal agendas… 🤷
 
There is a lot of misunderstanding about celibacy on this thread. Quite frankly, the misunderstanding is on both sides.

Again I ask, has anyone read “When God Asks for An Undivided Heart” by Andrew Apostolii?

books.google.com/books/content?id=TiK1IQAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE73zIagQBqi-VqyP_z5ESOGJuJzs70HF2TMK7QDdfv7LFhpfl5LR9oT91WBFM_0-0ZiNB5TN2jVJHIrDPCWSwBHGF_K-KiQz3RUn6CFFwEGcE8Puu3QgRqNAk7SJkUYqKPNxl1PN

I was considering a permanent celibate state at one time and can say that this book is extremely good. It has helped me understand celibacy, the challenges it poses to the individual and what a gift it is to the Church.

Marriage is a gift of self to the spouse. Celibacy is no different - it is a gift from God to the celibate and the gift of self back to God and the Christian people. The celibate makes an amazing, even heroic act of generosity when he chooses celibacy and when you see a celibate person your are seeing a sign of God’s love for us.

Too many seminarians and novices view celibacy as an obligation to be fulfilled. It is not an obligation but a gift freely given. Instead of giving yourself to one person you are giving yourself to Christ and his Body the Church. That’s why the Church esteems celibacy as higher than marriage.

-Tim-
 
Again:

The Catechism does not say that one needs to be celibate to love God with an undivided heart.

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate “for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to “the affairs of the Lord,” they give themselves entirely to God and to men…

scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a6.htm#1579

For all Christians (all persons!):

2133 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your strength” (Deut 6:5).
 
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