Young People: The fringe element

[Gordon_Sims]

I was watching EWTN’s coverage of the March For Life and during the opening rally they had a performance by the Ike Ndolo Band. Afterwards, Doug Keck and Fr. Joseph Mary were talking about the performance and referred to how the organizers of the event had brought in the “fringe element,” or something along those lines, but then said that it appeals to young people so it may not be so bad. I was a bit shocked by how they phrased it and found it ironic since, just a few minutes earlier, I was telling my wife that I feel EWTN could really benefit by having a show or two that appealed more to young people. Mother Angelica’s great, but there’s nothing on there that my kids would really ask to watch. Even our 3-year-old is put off by some of the shows (mostly the weird puppets and poor animation). Our 12-year-old was definitely put off by hearing young people referred to as a fringe group.

For the record, my older girls both liked the music and are very open to listening to Christian music as long as it sounds like something they’d choose to listen to on their own. So Matt Maher, Francesca Battistelli and Kari Jobe get a thumbs up, while Danielle Rose and Collin Raye don’t. They’d also rather have material presented to them by someone they can relate to. Regardless of who the guest may be, watching a show like Life on the Rock doesn’t appeal to them because Doug Barry is their dad’s age. I think EWTN (and the Church in general) could help themselves and young people immensely by not marginalizing them and doing more to speak to them directly. I’m always looking for more ways to get my kids interested in their faith and they were excited about getting to watch some of the March For Life coverage. That brief exchange was enough to strip them of their remaining interest in it.

 

[Mr_Clean]

I agree 100%. This is obviously not a new problem - you couldn’t get me to watch EWTN as a kid. I pray God gives us parents some better tools to compete with the enemy. I wonder sometimes if I’ve failed my kids by allowing them to be exposed to the things of this world. I can see why so many people are home schooling now. Not something I would be able to do.

 

[Cat]

I was watching EWTN’s coverage of the March For Life and during the opening rally they had a performance by the Ike Ndolo Band. Afterwards, Doug Keck and Fr. Joseph Mary were talking about the performance and referred to how the organizers of the event had brought in the “fringe element,” or something along those lines, but then said that it appeals to young people so it may not be so bad. I was a bit shocked by how they phrased it and found it ironic since, just a few minutes earlier, I was telling my wife that I feel EWTN could really benefit by having a show or two that appealed more to young people. Mother Angelica’s great, but there’s nothing on there that my kids would really ask to watch. Even our 3-year-old is put off by some of the shows (mostly the weird puppets and poor animation). Our 12-year-old was definitely put off by hearing young people referred to as a fringe group.

For the record, my older girls both liked the music and are very open to listening to Christian music as long as it sounds like something they’d choose to listen to on their own. So Matt Maher, Francesca Battistelli and Kari Jobe get a thumbs up, while Danielle Rose and Collin Raye don’t. They’d also rather have material presented to them by someone they can relate to. Regardless of who the guest may be, watching a show like Life on the Rock doesn’t appeal to them because Doug Barry is their dad’s age. I think EWTN (and the Church in general) could help themselves and young people immensely by not marginalizing them and doing more to speak to them directly. I’m always looking for more ways to get my kids interested in their faith and they were excited about getting to watch some of the March For Life coverage. That brief exchange was enough to strip them of their remaining interest in it.

I think this is a good post with good points.

I was an enthusiastic and uber-involved Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life. The children’s outreach materials of the Evangelical Protestants are often excellent.

When this issue is brought up, what I usually hear Catholics say is that “we shouldn’t treat teenagers like a separate group of people, but instead, assimilate them into the adult activities, give them the same learning materials, music, and liturgies as the adults and expect them to act like adults.”

What they say is something to the effect of: “Dang nabbit, when I was a teenager, I was doing the work of a full-grown man and all this nonsense about “youth culture” is just a bunch of bull hockey created by liberals and ex-Protestants.”

People cite history and claim that only in modern times have we treated teenagers as a separate age group.

Often Catholic young people on CAF express resentment over being treated “like teenagers.” They want to be treated like adults, and sing/pray/listen to adult liturgies, music, etc. They call teenaged materials, media, books, music, etc. “banal”.

I have problems with these attitudes. I think they’re wrong and I think those who hold such attitudes should be called out. (That’s what I’m doing now.)

I think that just because something was done in the past doesn’t make it right.

In the past (not that long ago–my grandmother told me about this), children were not allowed to sit at the table with the adults, but stood by the table and ate whatever scraps the adults tossed to them.

Should we go back to that? Will that kind of treatment help our rebellious children, especially those with Aspberger’s and other autistic syndromes, to learn respect?

After all, isn’t autism just a “made-up disease” that liberal parents use to excuse their children’s bad behavior?

(I’m being sarcastic here. I’m just repeating what some Christians blog and say, and I think that they’re off by a mile!)

I think that we have learned in “modern times” that teenagers ARE different than adults and also different from children, and that most teenagers should be treated differently than these other groups.

Of course there are exceptions. There are teenagers who are “old souls,” grown-up beyond their years, and they truly do love ancient music, books, etc. OTOH, these teenagers may have the mindset of adults, but physically, they are still teenagers, and I think we make a mistake to assume that just because they prefer Palestrina over Katy Perry, they are “adults.” Not true, and a dangerous assumption.

So basically, IMO, until Catholics themselves stop thinking in these distorted, old-fashioned ways, we can expect children’s materials to be pretty awful. We have to get to a place where the majority of Catholics recognize that children and teenagers ARE different than adults, that they are NOT ready for adult materials, and that it’s OK if they listen to age-appropriate literature, music, media, etc.

 

[MJJean]

This is funny to me. Reminds me of something I recently learned about my middle child, S, who is the only one interested in becoming Catholic and the only one in RCIA with me and going to Mass.

S was very young…maybe somewhere between 8 and 10?..when she discovered Mother Angelica. We weren’t Christian for over 20 years, so the kids had no idea about Christianity other than very vague things. We always said they would be free to pick their own spiritual path.

Anywho, my little S was clicking around and happened upon Mother Angelica. Apparently, she was intrigued and would watch the show when she could. She never said a word about it to anyone until a few months ago when Sister A was asking how we each came to God and when we knew we wanted to be Catholic.

She liked Mother Angelica and wanted to join the church where there were nuns like her, but had no idea which church that was. So, she went looking for the nuns by going to churches with friends and never did find them until my husband returned to the Church and began taking the girls with him. Once she realized the nuns were Catholic, she wanted to be Catholic, too.

I agree, the Church and EWTN need more and better programs for the young. We need to keep the kids interested, make learning about faith exciting, and make living faith easier by giving the young other like minded kids to spend time with. We also need great Christian bands that make music the younglings want to listen to. The young aren’t the fringe, they are the future of society and the Church.

I agree 100%. This is obviously not a new problem - you couldn’t get me to watch EWTN as a kid. I pray God gives us parents some better tools to compete with the enemy. I wonder sometimes if I’ve failed my kids by allowing them to be exposed to the things of this world. I can see why so many people are home schooling now. Not something I would be able to do.

Kids will be exposed to the secular world once they are adults. It’s a good thing to introduce them to that world when they are young and teach them how to be good Catholics amid the secular society we live in. Don’t feel bad about it.

I send my kids to a public Charter School ( not part of the local school district, owned by a company, and free to attend because they get the same per student tax funds the public schools would if the kid was going there). They aren’t religious, but they do teach “moral focus” . Not only in class, but in handouts, the newsletter, and in practice. The school does assemblies a couple times a week for about a half hour in the morning. That’s when they do announcements and honor those who have made academic/personal progress and who have won awards for that progress. They also do life lesson skits. Bullying, helping people, that sort of thing. Last year, one of the teachers even placed fake money in envelopes and “accidentally dropped” a few around the school to see who would turn them in to the office. Those that did were honored at the assembly for the week. Not all public schools are bad and lacking in moral teachings. Some are even very good! Nothing wrong with sending your kids to a good public school.

 

[RPRPsych]

I think this is a good post with good points.

I was an enthusiastic and uber-involved Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of my life. The children’s outreach materials of the Evangelical Protestants are often excellent.

When this issue is brought up, what I usually hear Catholics say is that “we shouldn’t treat teenagers like a separate group of people, but instead, assimilate them into the adult activities, give them the same learning materials, music, and liturgies as the adults and expect them to act like adults.”

What they say is something to the effect of: “Dang nabbit, when I was a teenager, I was doing the work of a full-grown man and all this nonsense about “youth culture” is just a bunch of bull hockey created by liberals and ex-Protestants.”

People cite history and claim that only in modern times have we treated teenagers as a separate age group.

Often Catholic young people on CAF express resentment over being treated “like teenagers.” They want to be treated like adults, and sing/pray/listen to adult liturgies, music, etc. They call teenaged materials, media, books, music, etc. “banal”.

I have problems with these attitudes. I think they’re wrong and I think those who hold such attitudes should be called out. (That’s what I’m doing now.)

I think that just because something was done in the past doesn’t make it right.

In the past (not that long ago–my grandmother told me about this), children were not allowed to sit at the table with the adults, but stood by the table and ate whatever scraps the adults tossed to them.

Should we go back to that? Will that kind of treatment help our rebellious children, especially those with Aspberger’s and other autistic syndromes, to learn respect?

After all, isn’t autism just a “made-up disease” that liberal parents use to excuse their children’s bad behavior?

(I’m being sarcastic here. I’m just repeating what some Christians blog and say, and I think that they’re off by a mile!)

I think that we have learned in “modern times” that teenagers ARE different than adults and also different from children, and that most teenagers should be treated differently than these other groups.

Of course there are exceptions. There are teenagers who are “old souls,” grown-up beyond their years, and they truly do love ancient music, books, etc. OTOH, these teenagers may have the mindset of adults, but physically, they are still teenagers, and I think we make a mistake to assume that just because they prefer Palestrina over Katy Perry, they are “adults.” Not true, and a dangerous assumption.

So basically, IMO, until Catholics themselves stop thinking in these distorted, old-fashioned ways, we can expect children’s materials to be pretty awful. We have to get to a place where the majority of Catholics recognize that children and teenagers ARE different than adults, that they are NOT ready for adult materials, and that it’s OK if they listen to age-appropriate literature, music, media, etc.

I think everyone needs to read this post.

 

[Coatimundi]

I have problems with these attitudes. I think they’re wrong and I think those who hold such attitudes should be called out. (That’s what I’m doing now.)

I think that just because something was done in the past doesn’t make it right…

There is a danger in preferring an approach which is familiar and comfortable even though it is also limiting. If an organization or movement isn’t growing, in time it will start dying.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I was watching EWTN’s coverage of the March For Life and during the opening rally they had a performance by the Ike Ndolo Band. Afterwards, Doug Keck and Fr. Joseph Mary were talking about the performance and referred to how the organizers of the event had brought in the “fringe element,” or something along those lines, but then said that it appeals to young people so it may not be so bad. I was a bit shocked by how they phrased it and found it ironic since, just a few minutes earlier, I was telling my wife that I feel EWTN could really benefit by having a show or two that appealed more to young people. Mother Angelica’s great, but there’s nothing on there that my kids would really ask to watch. Even our 3-year-old is put off by some of the shows (mostly the weird puppets and poor animation). Our 12-year-old was definitely put off by hearing young people referred to as a fringe group.

For the record, my older girls both liked the music and are very open to listening to Christian music as long as it sounds like something they’d choose to listen to on their own. So Matt Maher, Francesca Battistelli and Kari Jobe get a thumbs up, while Danielle Rose and Collin Raye don’t. They’d also rather have material presented to them by someone they can relate to. Regardless of who the guest may be, watching a show like Life on the Rock doesn’t appeal to them because Doug Barry is their dad’s age. I think EWTN (and the Church in general) could help themselves and young people immensely by not marginalizing them and doing more to speak to them directly. I’m always looking for more ways to get my kids interested in their faith and they were excited about getting to watch some of the March For Life coverage. That brief exchange was enough to strip them of their remaining interest in it.

First off, a shout out to Ike and his band. I have known Ike for years and he is an incredible musician but more importantly an incredible child of God. He expresses his art to glorify God and has more than once been an instrument the Holy spirit has used during adoration to enter my heart.
Everyone should support this Catholic Musician and incredible talent.

Second.

“They” are a fringe group. While we are filled with images of WYD and while the Church since the pontificate of JPII has made it at least acceptable for “young people” to publicly express their faith, they are a fringe in their own demographic and a fringe at Mass on Sundays. Heck, the entire pro life movement is a fringe group. They are a group trying to find a voice and learn about life. They are trying to reconcile their faith with their world. And while the “young” years might be tailor made for exploration and finding one’s way in the world, they are a “fringe” compared to their secular counterparts.

Where I think EWTN, and many Catholic “youth” groups fail is in trying to be “hip and with it” In trying to be “cool” These kids are not trying to be cool, if they were they would be at a party instead of a March for Life.
But we play around with terminlogy and words. As if that is the difference to the “youth” We used to call them “teens” as in life teen, but then in the race to market this idea of faith we abandoned that word because it was deemed a trun off. So we went to “youth” as in World Youth Day. Then that became stale so we repackaged it to the new “young people” IN all honesty we are taking a diverse group of catholics from all walks of life and putting them in a category so we can make them all the same. The fact is some come from rich two parent families, some, non catholic families, some poor single parent families. Some play videogames in their spare time, some read old fashioned books. Marketing and packaging Jesus to an age group that is so specific (8 Years) is silly. And the term “young people” means absolutely nothing. If you are under 38 you are younger than most people. What we really are talking about is high school teens.

 

[runningdude]

The way you wrote your post, the hosts seem to describe the band as a “fringe element”, rather than its young audience. Am I reading you intent correctly?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

The way you wrote your post, the hosts seem to describe the band as a “fringe element”, rather than its young audience. Am I reading you intent correctly?

The impression I got is that they were directing it at young people and anyone who likes non-liturgical music, although I guess it could have gone either way. Regardless of their intent, I think it could have been phrased better.

Cat, I won’t quote your whole post but I agree with it entirely. I’m not one for treating young people like adolescents into their mid-20s or early-30s like so many choose to do now, but teenagers are clearly different from a physiological and developmental perspective. Although a small number of them do find a passion for the traditional faith early on and keep it throughout their lives, most don’t. I’m not saying we should necessarily have an overabundance of rock/Lifeteen Masses, but I believe we need to do more to invigorate kids’ faith through their teen and early adult years.

I’ve never belonged to a parish that had a youth group. At my grade school, the only way you could be more involved in the Church was to be an altar server or join the choir. After Confirmation, you were on your own. High school wasn’t much different. We had a few faith-based groups but there was no real drive to get kids to join. There was no requirement for service hours and virtually no catechesis. By the start of sophomore year I seldom attended Mass anymore and was never given any reason why I should. That may have been different if there had been some sort of consistent emphasis on my faith and catechesis from the start, rather than focusing on the sacraments and then forgetting about us. I’ve kept in touch with a lot of people from my grade school and high school, and while a fair amount are still religious, very few still self-identify as Catholic, and most of them are of the extremely liberal/cafeteria variety.

We need to foster our kids faith through every stage of development. I don’t believe they should ever be marginalized in the eyes of the Church, and if a certain type of music gets them enthused about their faith, that’s a good thing and should be encouraged. When I’m at Mass I love hearing the music and singing along, but that doesn’t mean I want to hear the choir when I’m driving in my car. If Ike Ndolo, Matt Maher or someone else helps keep Jesus in the minds of my kids, that should be encouraged and not characterized as a fringe or undesirable element.

 

[Kithrus]

I find most attempts to get youth involved in Christ to be corny and over the top. all clapping and singing and no respect for introverts like myself who would be much better server dissecting a book or canon paper.

Those minor complaints aside if you really want to make religion a part of youths life you need to show them how it helps them and they can help it.

People are constantly falling into the trap that religion is no longer relivent or cool. That people don’t do churchy things as its a chore or that ‘faith is inside you not at some building’.

1. Make a facebook page to keep people updated with events. Every youth group should have a facebook page, it makes the group reachable and ever present.
2. Host events but avoid the stereotypes if you can. Bake sales and camp outs are all well and good but quite events like prayer meetings or recruiting for alter boys or planning world youth day are needed too.
3. Don’t be a club, be a community. No one wants some kind of social classism because someones too shy or busy to partake. It doesn’t need leaders or ranks or scoring systems. Getting to heaven isn’t a race, its a bus rid to include as many people as possible.
4. help the young get things that matter to them. Need a job for the summer? youth group will help. Need to raise money for a funeral because someone in the church died? why shouldn’t youth group help?

Make the church apart of life.