Zechariah 13:6

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I just read this passage now, on a random whim. Please help with this! I just finished reading about the controversy of a saint with stigmata, and this just scared me. What does it really mean? I know it cant be bad, but it means something I dont understand. Because even Christ had wounds in his hands.

I’ll pray God will help me with this one.
 
Hi, I just checked out the comments in the Jerusalem study bible and the comment is that the prophets of antiquity used to gash their bodies, and the men accused of being lying impure prophets defend themselves by pretending that the wounds were caused by friends, that is, they wanted to convince others that they weren’t prophets.
I hope that helps.
 
Trishie said:
Hi, I just checked out the comments in the Jerusalem study bible and the comment is that the prophets of antiquity used to gash their bodies, and the men accused of being lying impure prophets defend themselves by pretending that the wounds were caused by friends, that is, they wanted to convince others that they weren’t prophets.
I hope that helps.
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It helps, I will have to read it again with this in mind. Somehow I recall Paul speaking of doing something to punish himself bodily, I just cant think of where now.
But, how can a prophet be taken seriously if he is denying he is one? Maybe due to being humble of spirit. Maybe because it was not time for them to reveal such things, to take away from the message in case people decided to pay more attention to them individually than to God.
Now I am wondering about how that makes sense, with John the Baptist, because he never really did from what I can see, totally loose his following, then he ends up dead. Jesus does not come to him until days later after hearing the news. (could be due to the jewish belief a soul did not leave the body until 3 days after death?) I know eating locusts and honey was likely as painful as wounds in the hands, so maybe he also had these wounds in the hands? I dont remember reading about any prophets who had them. But, that would make sense, based on what you explained.
It read to me like the bad false prophets had the wounds in the hands, and that was their mark.

Thanks for helping me with that one! I feel like the guy in the scriprutes who said, how can I learn these things if no one shows/teaches me? (ethiopian enuch?)
 
The point was that they were false prophets, and when called to account, denied the signs, the scars of self-gashing, signified that they were prophets, They pretended that they got the wounds elsewhere.

Not quite sure what you mean about Jesus coming to John days after his death. After John’s arrest Jesus didn’t see him again, but the disciples of John took away John’s headless body and buried it, then came to tell Jesus. [Matthew 14 :12 ]

Jesus was upset and went away to grieve, but the people clamoured for him so he looked after them instead. [Matthew 14:13-14]

Matthew 3 speaks of John’s apostolate,

Matthew mentions John’s prophesy in verses 11-12 of “the one who follows me is more powerful than I am, and I am not fit to carry his sandals; he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Pentecost)

Matthew then goes on to relate the baptism of Jesus in the Jordan chapter 3 verses 13-17. After John is arrested Jesus went back to Galilee to begin preaching, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is close at hand.”

Jesus didn’t have wounds in his hand’s until he was nailed to the cross. He fasted and prayed in the wilderness as preparation, a time of inner purification in readiness for his mission.

John ate locusts and honey in the desert while living simply and without luxury also, in preparation for his mission, but he didn’t have wounds. There is no indication that he injured himself.

John’s diet…Honey is very pleasant and nourishing…and locusts, well some of our beloved Australian aborigines ate live grubs and whatever to hand, and some isolated people in the chinese mountains eat wasp larve. It may not be quite as awful as you’d think, but I’m sure you and I would have to be starving before we ate such natural fare, even in the desert!

Ok on to the next question!

Bless you, Trishie
 
Regarding your question,
***“Jesus does not come to him until days later after hearing the news. (could be due to the Jewish belief a soul did not leave the body until 3 days after death?)” ***
That could be why Jesus left Lazarus in the tomb for **four **days, to prove to the Jews that Lazarus was really dead and thus they could see it was a genuine miracle for Jesus to raise him to life.

Are you thinking of Lazarus? I think you may have been confused over which John, because this is all so new to you and you’re trying to take everything in, bless you!

In this case, when Jesus’ friend Lazarus died, Jesus didn’t arrive until Lazarus had been buried for four days, (nevertheless he had wept about the death. [John the evangelist and disciple, not the Baptist 11:35,36]) . Lazarus’ sisters weren’t happy about His delay but… Jesus elicits some expressions of faith from Lazarus’s sisters,

"Jesus put it plainly. “Lazarus is dead; and for your sake I am glad I was not there because now you will believe. But let us go to him” John 11: 15

John 11:42-44 tells of the restoration to life of Lazarus. "Jesus lifted up his eyes and said:

“Father I thank you for hearing my prayer,
I knew indeed that you always hear me,
but I speak
for the sake of all these who stand around me,
so that they may bekieve that it was you who sent me.”

When He had said this, he cried out in a loud voice, “Lazarus, here! Come out!” The dead man came out, his feet and hands bound with bands of stuff and a cloth round his face. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, let him go free.”
As a consequence of this miracle, “Many of the Jews who had come to visit Mary Mary & Martha, L’s sisters] and had seen what he did believed in him…”

God bless you in your searching, Trishie
 
{13:4} And this shall be: In that day, the prophets will be confounded, each one by his own vision, when he will prophesy. Neither will they be covered with a garment of sackcloth in order to deceive.
{13:5} But he will say, “I am not a prophet; I am a man of agriculture. For Adam has been my example from my youth.”
{13:6} And they will say to him, “What are these wounds in the middle of your hands?” And he will say, “I was wounded with these in the house of those who love me.”

This passage fortells a time when many false prophets (such as false visionaries, seers, locutionists, etc.) will abandon their false prophecy. The wounds are figurative for the sharp correction given to them by their fellow members of the Church, a correction which they have accepted.
 
Yes, I mixed up Lazarus’s situation with John!:o I still dont know why Jesus would not go to his cousin when hearing he was dead. I know it says the people wanted to hear from him, but that hardly seems like a reason- I am sure they would have understood I mean family was important to the Jews. And, I wonder why John did not instruct all his followers to go follow Jesus? I mean, Jesus finds out about Johns death through a follower of John. And John kept sending his followers to ask Jesus questions because it looks like he was confused about the things he was doing and asking him to verify if he was the Messiah. What happened to the follwers of John that remained with him? Did they find Jesus and then follow him after John died? :confused:
 
I am very much devoted to the Holy Prophets, read and learned much about them, yet I have never heard prophets hurting themselves. In fact I know that about just the opposite people, the priests of the pagans.

I know of prophets killing 400 pagans with a single knife too.

St. Elias, pray for us!
 
notsmart said:
Yes, I mixed up Lazarus’s situation with John!:o I still dont know why Jesus would not go to his cousin when hearing he was dead. I know it says the people wanted to hear from him, but that hardly seems like a reason- I am sure they would have understood I mean family was important to the Jews. And, I wonder why John did not instruct all his followers to go follow Jesus? I mean, Jesus finds out about Johns death through a follower of John. And John kept sending his followers to ask Jesus questions because it looks like he was confused about the things he was doing and asking him to verify if he was the Messiah. What happened to the followers of John that remained with him? Did they find Jesus and then follow him after John died? :confused:
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John was killed at Herod’s court, Jesus wouldn’t have access there, until he was taken by the High priests who wanted him condemned to death. John’s disciples had already buried John’s body before they told Jesus he’d been murdered. Jesus tried to get away to grieve, but the crowd came and surrounded him, and he took pity on them instead of himself. You can’t know that Jesus didn’t later go to visit the place where John was buried. The burial was over. Jesus had a duty to those whom God entrusted Him to teach, and his response was unselfish. The people didn’t know he’d lost his cousin. When people are grieving they aren’t necessarily selfish. I remember when my mother died at age 43 leaving nine children ranging from 4 years old to nineteen. When people came to us we knew they couldn’t really help us, but we saw they didn’t know what to do or what to say, so we just put ourselves aside and comforted them.

John did in a sense instruct his followers to go with Jesus. He told them how much greater Jesus was than him, and that he must decrease and Jesus increase. It was obvious that he wished his people to follow Jesus. "I baptise you in water for repentance, John said, “but the one who comes after me is more powerful than I am, and I am not fit to carry his sandals; he will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” Matthew 3 :11-12. If you were told that, wouldn’t you go to the man John spoke of! [The fire refers to the tongues of fire at Pentecost.]

John did send his followers to ask Jesus for sure who He was, but he didn’t ‘keep sending’ them. In any case at the baptism of Jesus John was with Him when “As soon as Jesus was baptised he came up from the water, and suddenly the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming down on him. And a voice spoke from heaven, 'This is my Son, the beloved; my favour rests on him.” Matthew 3: 16-17. How could John doubt who he was. In John 1: 34, Jesus’ cousin John declared" Yes, I have seen and I am the witness that he is the Chosen One of God." It doesn’t matter whether scripture states that John’s followers then followed Jesus. Wouldn’t you if the man you admired told you this about the man he pointed out to them? I sure would!

Okay, it’s after midnight here in Australia so I should pack up now. God bless you!
 
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