J
Joe_Monahan
Guest
When this thread was opened yesterday, I had misgivings regarding it; in retrospect, I see that I should have followed through on those misgivings and closed it then.
Presenting something of this nature (the apparition at Zeitoun) and asking, in effect, “so, what do you say about this?” lacks any valid apologetic purpose and isn’t a logical starting point for discussion, dialogue, or debate with our Muslim brethren.
All of the following are valid approaches:
to present Catholic or Christian belief and either ask how it differs from theirs or ask that they respond to it;
to query them about a particular point of their belief;
to contrast the beliefs of the two faiths and point out the facts that support yours versus theirs;
to ask their opinion or perspective about a point of doctrine or dogma.
To essentially present Muslims with a random event, which is neither a matter of required belief for nor likely even known to the average Catholic, and effectively challenge them as to what they think of it serves no valid purpose. If one wishes to delve into Muslim viewpoints on Mariology and somehow manage to work into that discussion that Catholic devotion to Mary has been fostered in part by Marian apparitions, that is one thing. The stand-alone presentation of a set of circumstances (likely previously unknown to Muslims here, unless they are Egyptians) proves nothing. (In fact, the apparition at Zeitoun really belongs to the Coptic Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church.)
I am concerned that thread was posted for the purpose of baiting, allowing for subsequent commentary such as “see, they couldn’t refute that”, when, in fact, they don’t need to do so. It isn’t an aspect of their belief system; if they choose not to believe that it transpired, then they have no obligation to somehow disprove it. In fact, they can no more do so than you can prove it. It has no basis on which to be believed other than belief.
Muslim posters to date have generally avoided deriding Christian and Catholic beliefs. I expect the same courtesy to be shown to them in return. Disagreeing and declining to believe are not derision and should not be confused.
While Jcaz’ offer to produce “apparitions” using Photoshop may come acriss as derisive, I believe Hawk set himself up for that with “Wow, what do my muslim bretheren have to say about this?”
I wrote recently in another thread on this subforum that I was pleased at the quality of discourse and discussion that had begun to prevail on this subforum; I hope for a return to that.
This thread is now closed.
Joe Monahan
Presenting something of this nature (the apparition at Zeitoun) and asking, in effect, “so, what do you say about this?” lacks any valid apologetic purpose and isn’t a logical starting point for discussion, dialogue, or debate with our Muslim brethren.
All of the following are valid approaches:
to present Catholic or Christian belief and either ask how it differs from theirs or ask that they respond to it;
to query them about a particular point of their belief;
to contrast the beliefs of the two faiths and point out the facts that support yours versus theirs;
to ask their opinion or perspective about a point of doctrine or dogma.
To essentially present Muslims with a random event, which is neither a matter of required belief for nor likely even known to the average Catholic, and effectively challenge them as to what they think of it serves no valid purpose. If one wishes to delve into Muslim viewpoints on Mariology and somehow manage to work into that discussion that Catholic devotion to Mary has been fostered in part by Marian apparitions, that is one thing. The stand-alone presentation of a set of circumstances (likely previously unknown to Muslims here, unless they are Egyptians) proves nothing. (In fact, the apparition at Zeitoun really belongs to the Coptic Orthodox Church, not the Catholic Church.)
I am concerned that thread was posted for the purpose of baiting, allowing for subsequent commentary such as “see, they couldn’t refute that”, when, in fact, they don’t need to do so. It isn’t an aspect of their belief system; if they choose not to believe that it transpired, then they have no obligation to somehow disprove it. In fact, they can no more do so than you can prove it. It has no basis on which to be believed other than belief.
Muslim posters to date have generally avoided deriding Christian and Catholic beliefs. I expect the same courtesy to be shown to them in return. Disagreeing and declining to believe are not derision and should not be confused.
While Jcaz’ offer to produce “apparitions” using Photoshop may come acriss as derisive, I believe Hawk set himself up for that with “Wow, what do my muslim bretheren have to say about this?”
I wrote recently in another thread on this subforum that I was pleased at the quality of discourse and discussion that had begun to prevail on this subforum; I hope for a return to that.
This thread is now closed.
Joe Monahan