Zika virus and contraception

[Hoosier_Daddy]

A person can be loyal to the Church and yet see one aspect of formation as unfair or untrue to her heart. She might then seek the Lord directly. Formation is important, but if one part of that formation is not respectful of the student, the teacher needs to reevaluate.

Wow

 

[Rau]

A person can be loyal to the Church and yet see one aspect of formation as unfair or untrue to her heart. She might then seek the Lord directly. Formation is important, but if one part of that formation is not respectful of the student, the teacher needs to reevaluate.

So, the loyalty you feel is owed to the Church, and the teaching authority you allow, is strictly limited by your judgement of what is respectful (to you) ?

 

[graciew]

Natural Law has been formed mostly (if not completely) by men. Look, for example, at St. Thomas Aquinas, one of the major players in the direction of thought on this subject. In Summa Theologica, the question is asked whether woman should have even been made in the first generation of things, since it is assumed she is so inferior. In Part I, Question 92, Article 1, Aquinas replies:
.newadvent.org/summa/1092.htm .

In other words, Aquinas said women are good for reproduction and nothing else. Whereas I, despite being a woman, find myself thinking that God gave me a brain for the very reason of thinking.

This deviation of perspective on women is one of the reasons we are so at odds about contraception. We all need to learn more discernment.

If the Catholic leaders would talk more with women who take contraceptives instead of hurling the words “intrinsically evil” due to Natural Law, they may make progress in understanding. The Church leaders seem to want couples to have as many children as possible, while the women may be hearing a different calling from God. And we might all come to an understanding that barrier contraception is a lot more acceptable, like NFP, than abortifacient contraception. Perhaps the Church leadership could come to more of a resolution with Catholic laypersons so that instead of women using abortifacient pills they would be willing to use barrier contraceptives instead.

Let us remember that Mary, mother of Jesus, was called directly (through an angel) by God. He did not consult with her religious leaders or her parents or even her husband to be. And she answered God directly (through an angel). She did not, in that calling, consult with her religious leaders or her parents or her husband to be. And though the Church insists she was the perfect mother, it also insists she never had sex with her husband nor produced more than one child. Of course, Jesus was quite a child. And He is the one we need to seek for wisdom about the family.

Should not couples be taught to discern God’s will according to their circumstance? Should not the Church hear the voices of women (besides the ones who already agree with them)? All of us need work in discernment.

It has been declared the Year of Mercy by Pope Francis. I pray for God’s mercy to show all of us His will.

I am far from a genius but sounds like there is some misinterpretation from what intellectual operation was meant by Aquinas.

I am grateful that he did understand we ,women ,are different and we provide a different touch in the world. Also that our role as " mothers " is body and or in spirit is brought forth.
Funny though my first image when I read it was my husband and his physical strength doing the heavy work and lifting for my one hundred pounds… May God bless him and men who so warmly step forth to protect us in different ways.In the meantime may God help us protect their hearts … But that is me…
Bless you !

 

[womanatwell]

I am far from a genius but sounds like there is some misinterpretation from what intellectual operation was meant by Aquinas.

I am grateful that he did understand we ,women ,are different and we provide a different touch in the world. Also that our role as " mothers " is body and or in spirit is brought forth.
Funny though my first image when I read it was my husband and his physical strength doing the heavy work and lifting for my one hundred pounds… May God bless him and men who so warmly step forth to protect us in different ways.In the meantime may God help us protect their hearts … But that is me…
Bless you !

Thank you for your gracious response. I believe many women feel they are called to be mothers and I think they are very worthy in that role. But I also believe some married women are called to careers or other roles (such as Church leadership) in which they do not have the energy to also have children and perhaps feel NFP is too burdensome or are afraid it will be unreliable. Some women are very irregular and would have trouble even planning their wedding night to be at the right time to avoid pregnancy. I believe these are among the women that feel ostracized. Many women have left the Church and I do not believe it is all their fault.

. I pray for all of us to be open to what is pleasing to God and that we may go forward in love.

 

[jmjZelie]

A person can be loyal to the Church and yet see one aspect of formation as unfair or untrue to her heart. She might then seek the Lord directly. Formation is important, but if one part of that formation is not respectful of the student, the teacher needs to reevaluate.

Not if the teacher is perfect and spotless.

 

[CallMeDad]

A person can be loyal to the Church and yet see one aspect of formation as unfair or untrue to her heart. She might then seek the Lord directly. Formation is important, but if one part of that formation is not respectful of the student, the teacher needs to reevaluate.

This sounds like Satan’s closing argument just before Eve ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I would be wary of this line of thinking, as it is anything but new.

 

[graciew]

. I pray for all of us to be open to what is pleasing to God and that we may go forward in love.

Sounds good . That prayer works too !

 

[Rau]

Thank you for your gracious response. I believe many women feel they are called to be mothers and I think they are very worthy in that role. But I also believe some married women are called to careers or other roles (such as Church leadership) in which they do not have the energy to also have children and perhaps feel NFP is too burdensome or are afraid it will be unreliable. Some women are very irregular and would have trouble even planning their wedding night to be at the right time to avoid pregnancy. I believe these are among the women that feel ostracized. Many women have left the Church and I do not believe it is all their fault.

. I pray for all of us to be open to what is pleasing to God and that we may go forward in love.

I don’t believe it is possible to reconcile a decision to marry and be sexually active with a desire to be a career woman intending to avoid children throughout their marriage for that purpose.. That course relies on a view of marriage inconsistent with Catholic understanding.

Few women are so regular that they can p(name removed by moderator)oint the timing of their cycle 6-9 months in advance to suit their honeymoon. And I’m astounded you would think that it is soooo important to do so.

 

[on_the_hill]

Just one quick comment: I have yet to meet a woman (in real life) who thinks the Church would be the same as it is today if women were part of the leadership from the beginning.

But that’s way off-topic.

 

[babochka]

Thank you for your gracious response. I believe many women feel they are called to be mothers and I think they are very worthy in that role. But I also believe some married women are called to careers or other roles (such as Church leadership) in which they do not have the energy to also have children and perhaps feel NFP is too burdensome or are afraid it will be unreliable.

If a couple intended from the beginning of their marriage to not be open to life because they believed that having children and doing other things that a woman might be called to do is simply too burdensome, that marriage would not be valid. Openness to having children at some point is required.

Some women are very irregular and would have trouble even planning their wedding night to be at the right time to avoid pregnancy.

Even a very regular woman would have difficulty planning a night with such precision, several months out. Illness or stress could occur, changing what is usually a very regular cycle.

 

[Exiled_Child]

Oddly, the Zika Virus is actually for sale in freeze-dried form by it’s owner and manufacturer, the Rockefeller Foundation:

atcc.org/Products/All/VR-84.aspx#history

 

[Thorolfr]

Oddly, the Zika Virus is actually for sale in freeze-dried form by it’s owner and manufacturer, the Rockefeller Foundation:

atcc.org/Products/All/VR-84.aspx#history

there are no patents involving Zika. What it means is that the virus was deposited by Jordi Casals [of the Rockefeller Foundation], who was an eminent virologist and had a large collection of viruses that he accumulated throughout his career, including Zika (but many others, as a search of ATCC shows). Rockefeller makes no money on this–in fact, now some journals require deposition of strains to ATCC or similar banks as a condition for publishing.

scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2016/02/03/the-zika-conspiracies-have-begun/

Jordi Casals-Ariet was born in Viladrau, Girona, in Spain on May 15, 1911. He served with the Spanish Army before earning his medical degree from the University of Barcelona in 1934. After interning there, Dr. Casals moved to Manhattan and worked at Cornell University Medical College from 1936 to 1938, when he joined the Rockefeller Institute of Medical Research in Manhattan.

Dr. Casals used the crude techniques available then to begin to classify viruses. When more sophisticated methods were developed, ‘‘all they did was confirm what he had done, that is how meticulous he was,’’ Dr. Calisher said.

‘‘The whole field of viral taxonomy developed from what Jordi did,’’ he added.

In 1952, Dr. Casals joined the Rockefeller Foundation. It supported field stations around the world where scientists collected samples from people and animals and sent them to Dr. Casals, asking his team to identify them.

nytimes.com/2004/02/21/nyregion/jordi-casals-ariet-who-found-lassa-virus-dies-at-92.html?_r=0

If you want to read something serious about the Zika virus instead of conspiracy theories, there is a good article about it in today’s New York Times:

nytimes.com/2016/02/07/health/zika-virus-brazil-how-it-spread-explained.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

[seaton2005]

Several governments in South America are recommending that women avoid pregnancy, due to the spread of the Zika virus, which can cause severe birth defects when a pregnant woman is infected. Here’s the news report.

The problem is that a large percentage of the population is Roman Catholic, and of course contraception is against Catholic teaching. They could avoid pregnancy by abstaining from sex or by using NFP (strictly). But many Catholics do not follow Church teaching on contraception. So this recommendation (to avoid pregnancy) implicitly suggests the use of contraception to Catholics.

It is a difficult issue for the Church. But since contraception is intrinsically evil, it cannot be justified by the good intention to avoid harm to the prenatal, nor by the difficult circumstance of the spread of this virus.

If the medical data suggest this is spread through sex without contraception - then we need to ensure that these countries have adequate supply of contraception to potentially save lives.

 

[Exiled_Child]

scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2016/02/03/the-zika-conspiracies-have-begun/

nytimes.com/2004/02/21/nyregion/jordi-casals-ariet-who-found-lassa-virus-dies-at-92.html?_r=0

If you want to read something serious about the Zika virus instead of conspiracy theories, there is a good article about it in today’s New York Times:

nytimes.com/2016/02/07/health/zika-virus-brazil-how-it-spread-explained.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Oh, thanks for replying Thorolfr, but actually I was already familiar with all of that information. A serious question, though: can facts be “conspiracy theories?” How would you describe a “conspiracy theory” then? And what would lead you to believe I was even positing one? I was only posting something I believe is both interesting and noteworthy.

 

[Exiled_Child]

In addition to who owns and markets the virus, the following article is also of interest:

telesurtv.net/english/news/First-Abortion-in-Colombia-Possibly-as-Result-of-Zika-20160206-0004.html

**A woman struggled to find a doctor willing to provide an abortion after it was discovered her fetus suffered from microcephaly.

Semana magazine revealed Thursday what it believed to be the first case of a woman who sought an abortion over fetal malformations possibly caused by a Zika virus infection.
**
Continues at the site.

 

[Rau]

In addition to who owns and markets the virus, the following article is also of interest:

telesurtv.net/english/news/First-Abortion-in-Colombia-Possibly-as-Result-of-Zika-20160206-0004.html

From that article:

*The woman, given the pseudonym of Johana Martinez, was finally granted her request for an abortion on Wednesday after multiple doctors denied her request due to conscientious objection.

The fetus’ microcephaly was not discovered until late into her pregnancy, as early tests and exams indicated a normal pregnancy.

Doctors refused to grant the abortion on the grounds that despite the presence of microcephaly, the fetus could live.* Not clear how conscientious objection arises for late term versus early in term.

 

[heart4home]

I have two cousins who had children long, long after it was dangerous for them to continue to do so. NFP didn’t work because they couldn’t get their husbands to abstain. No skin off of their nose if she gets pregnant. I have no doubt that it happens more often in traditional cultures.

Long long after it was dangerous for them to continue to do so?

I do hope you are referring to a particular medical condition besides age?