Zika virus and social justice

[Giggly_Giraffe]

What should the nations do to be socially just for the children deformed by the Zika virus? Are the foster/orphan programs ready for such a wave of children with these special needs?

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

It’s the same as usual.

Viruses have probably always been implicated in some cases of atrophied cerebellum, or the sort of microcephaly of the violinist-journalist we heard about, and so on.

More severely affected cases have long been an occurrence also, I believe. People of good will ought to try to be humane.

Above all, every society needs to be awash in Holy Spirit prayer.

In my generation and before, many people got where they got to because of deep seated acceptance and imagination around them (many were failed though).

In a place where there is sufficient quality of trust in God infecting not only large numbers of church members but their surrounding neighbours (including atheists of good will) as well, these qualities will spread and morale will be less undermined.

Social justice is not a matter of sentimentality and disrespect for others’ suffering.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Before there was the Zika virus there was influenza.

And before influenza there was polio.

And before polio there was small pox.

And before small pox there was diphtheria.

All those immunization shots we give babies are for a reason.

We learned about rubella.

We learned about tuberculosis.

And back around 1919, there was another influenza that killed MILLIONS of people, right after World War I. Spanish flu, I think they called it.

And keep going back … there was the Black Plague that wiped out maybe one-third of Europe. Probably cholera. Carried by lice on the backs of rats. You can look it up.

It’s not an issue of social justice.

It’s an issue of learning and studying and developing ways to defeat these horrible curses.

AND, over time, we did learn how to develop ways to deal with them.

There were people who studied these things. Lister. Pasteur. Other people come to mind.

Some of it is good public health.

[We chlorinate water for a reason.]

[We separate potable water and sewerage … for a reason.]

We learn.

We study.

We apply what we learn.

It’s not about social justice.

**There are places on this planet where learning is discouraged.

These places tend to be poorer than places where learning is encouraged.**

 

[RPRPsych]

Before there was the Zika virus there was influenza.

And before influenza there was polio.

And before polio there was small pox.

And before small pox there was diphtheria.

All those immunization shots we give babies are for a reason.

We learned about rubella.

We learned about tuberculosis.

And back around 1919, there was another influenza that killed MILLIONS of people, right after World War I. Spanish flu, I think they called it.

And keep going back … there was the Black Plague that wiped out maybe one-third of Europe. Probably cholera. Carried by lice on the backs of rats. You can look it up.

It’s not an issue of social justice.

It’s an issue of learning and studying and developing ways to defeat these horrible curses.

AND, over time, we did learn how to develop ways to deal with them.

There were people who studied these things. Lister. Pasteur. Other people come to mind.

Some of it is good public health.

[We chlorinate water for a reason.]

[We separate potable water and sewerage … for a reason.]

We learn.

We study.

We apply what we learn.

It’s not about social justice.

**There are places on this planet where learning is discouraged.

These places tend to be poorer than places where learning is encouraged.**

This is an excellent post.

However, there is one small wrinkle to this picture: many of the trends that may cause us to lose the battle of the microbes in the long-run, such as AIDS denialism and anti-vaccine activism, are of Western origin. That some parts of the East have adopted them enthusiastically sometimes leads us to forget this.

 

[bitterhope]

This is an excellent post.

However, there is one small wrinkle to this picture: many of the trends that may cause us to lose the battle of the microbes in the long-run, such as AIDS denialism and anti-vaccine activism, are of Western origin. That some parts of the East have adopted them enthusiastically sometimes leads us to forget this.

Very true. In the US I have met many younger moms that are completely opposed to vaccines and other types of medical treatments for illnesses and infections while in poorer nations I have met moms that would do just about anything for access to those same vaccines. I think part of it is too many have never seen first hand the illnesses that we have vaccines to prevent and so they don’t understand how horrible those things are. I know some parents that don’t even do Tetanus shots. They think the risks of the shots outway the risks of the illness. I think if they actually dealt with the illnesses or had older parents that did they would be more open to the vaccines. A lot of today’s moms are 2+ generations removed from polio and even measles. Instead of celebrating these vaccines that have saved countless lives they fear them instead of the diseases the shots prevent. In many poor developing countries moms are still losing kids to these diseases because no or very few vaccines are available. The moms in these countries that fear the vaccines base it more on distrust of doctors and government workers because of corruption in their countries.

Unfortunately there are also people in the US that deny AIDS, Ebola, etc. exist or believe they are either a punishment from God for various sins or they think the government purposely infects people for various reasons.

 

[Neofight]

It’s not about social justice.

Oh, but it is.

The point being made by the OP was the aftermath of the virus. But, even if the aftermath is discounted, societies use of resources to address a means to prevent and defeat the virus, is in itself, an example of social justice because it requires a conscious decision to dedicate resources to the problem to stop the suffering of the most vulnerable, who are more likely to be impacted by these things.

Advocating the spending of money, time, and resources by those with means, to give relieve to those without, is social justice, and is what we are called to do as disciples of Christ.

Times and events like this are good cause to spend an hour reading and pondering the Epistle of Saint James, and the Book of Amos.

PEACE AND ALL GOOD!

Peace and all good!

 

[RPRPsych]

Very true. In the US I have met many younger moms that are completely opposed to vaccines and other types of medical treatments for illnesses and infections while in poorer nations I have met moms that would do just about anything for access to those same vaccines. I think part of it is too many have never seen first hand the illnesses that we have vaccines to prevent and so they don’t understand how horrible those things are. I know some parents that don’t even do Tetanus shots. They think the risks of the shots outway the risks of the illness. I think if they actually dealt with the illnesses or had older parents that did they would be more open to the vaccines. A lot of today’s moms are 2+ generations removed from polio and even measles. Instead of celebrating these vaccines that have saved countless lives they fear them instead of the diseases the shots prevent. In many poor developing countries moms are still losing kids to these diseases because no or very few vaccines are available. The moms in these countries that fear the vaccines base it more on distrust of doctors and government workers because of corruption in their countries.

Unfortunately there are also people in the US that deny AIDS, Ebola, etc. exist or believe they are either a punishment from God for various sins or they think the government purposely infects people for various reasons.

The issue is particularly close to me because I live in India, which has been declared a “zero polio” zone a little over a year ago.

Vaccines have allowed us to largely annul threats such as tetanus, which used to claim the lives of newborn babies where delivery conditions were less than optimal.

The “anti-vaccine” movement is a strange one. Part of it comes from New Agers / Scientologists who oppose it because of their own peculiar beliefs, but some also comes from conservatives (including some Catholics ) who have conspiracy theories about the uses and effects of vaccines. This is particularly sickening because preventing the premature and unnecessary death of children should be a part of any right-thinking “pro-life” movement.

In some Asian countries, the opposition is based on a suspicion of the pharmaceutical industry conducting vaccine trials in a less than ethical manner, though local traditions and superstitions play their part.

It’s sad, because with very few exceptions, these shots are quite harmless (they may cost you a sleepless night or two when given to infants, as I can attest to personally ), and the diseases they prevent can often be fatal or lead to permanent disability.

 

[RPRPsych]

Oh, but it is.

The point being made by the OP was the aftermath of the virus. But, even if the aftermath is discounted, societies use of resources to address a means to prevent and defeat the virus, is in itself, an example of social justice because it requires a conscious decision to dedicate resources to the problem to stop the suffering of the most vulnerable, who are more likely to be impacted by these things.

Advocating the spending of money, time, and resources by those with means, to give relieve to those without, is social justice, and is what we are called to do as disciples of Christ.

Times and events like this are good cause to spend an hour reading and pondering the Epistle of Saint James, and the Book of Amos.

PEACE AND ALL GOOD!

Peace and all good!

I hear you there! Of course, these days, the WHO is in bad odour in Catholic circles because of its links to abortion and contraception. But we mustn’t forget that in its heyday, it did a great job in ensuring that diseases such as smallpox and polio disappeared. (I was one of the last people to get a smallpox vaccine… )

I think the problem is that, thanks to the Internet and its black/while polarizations, “social justice” has become a pejorative term, associated with online LGBT and “women’s rights” posters whose idea of social justice is simply trolling and indulging in flame wars. This is unfair. Social justice is much more than that. Why do we pray “to rid the world from disease” on Good Friday if such things are not part of the Church’s teaching?

 

[ToeInTheWater]

The “anti-vaccine” movement is a strange one. Part of it comes from New Agers / Scientologists who oppose it because of their own peculiar beliefs, but some also comes from conservatives (including some Catholics ) who have conspiracy theories about the uses and effects of vaccines. This is particularly sickening because preventing the premature and unnecessary death of children should be a part of any right-thinking “pro-life” movement.

I don’t know how long you’ve been following CAF, but there was a time when any vaccine discussion was dominated by those who, even if they weren’t anti-vaccine, saw them as entirely optional, and argued strongly for the right to refuse them. I think this was one of the reasons CAF wound up banning medical advice completely, though for some reason, the mods often let topics about birthing slide by, it seems they also have been influenced by the “pregnancy isn’t a disease” mantra.

However, I have noticed that even discussions about birthing options are more balanced than they used to be. As opposed to discussions around the time the “Business of Being Born” documentary was released. Many posters assumed everything alleged in it was 100% true. Women were even asking if it was a sin to have a C-section! I even recall a poster asking for advice on “unassisted birth”, birth with no medical professional attendance at all, and no prenatal care at all, either. (Even the ancient Hebrews had midwives!) But the last time I saw that documentary mentioned, people seemed to have realized that while there was some truth to it, it was also very biased.

I also think that many Catholics, and others, who have had bad experiences with health care providers, especially those who do not respect Catholic beliefs regarding abortion, sexuality, birth control, have become very suspicious of the “health care industry”. For most people, the benefits of vaccines are very abstract, because they have no personal experience with vaccine-preventable diseases. They have to take it on faith that vaccines are helpful to their children, and they don’t see much reason to have such faith.

 

[RPRPsych]

I don’t know how long you’ve been following CAF, but there was a time when any vaccine discussion was dominated by those who, even if they weren’t anti-vaccine, saw them as entirely optional, and argued strongly for the right to refuse them. I think this was one of the reasons CAF wound up banning medical advice completely, though for some reason, the mods often let topics about birthing slide by, it seems they also have been influenced by the “pregnancy isn’t a disease” mantra.

However, I have noticed that even discussions about birthing options are more balanced than they used to be. As opposed to discussions around the time the “Business of Being Born” documentary was released. Many posters assumed everything alleged in it was 100% true. Women were even asking if it was a sin to have a C-section! I even recall a poster asking for advice on “unassisted birth”, birth with no medical professional attendance at all, and no prenatal care at all, either. (Even the ancient Hebrews had midwives!) But the last time I saw that documentary mentioned, people seemed to have realized that while there was some truth to it, it was also very biased.

I also think that many Catholics, and others, who have had bad experiences with health care providers, especially those who do not respect Catholic beliefs regarding abortion, sexuality, birth control, have become very suspicious of the “health care industry”. For most people, the benefits of vaccines are very abstract, because they have no personal experience with vaccine-preventable diseases. They have to take it on faith that vaccines are helpful to their children, and they don’t see much reason to have such faith.

I didn’t know about this at all. Rather disturbing, really.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I didn’t know about this at all. Rather disturbing, really.

And I don’t think it’s as easy as blaming the anti-vaxxers or anti-hospital birth crowd. I don’t agree with them, but I also don’t think merely ridiculing and dismissing them is the solution. For example, Dr. Amy of the “Skeptical OB” blog doesn’t just express skepticism about “natural parenting”, she expressly connects it to anti-feminist ideology, that she seems to find to be self-evidently Bad.

Have women been tricked into giving up real power for “empowerment” through childbirth and breastfeeding?

Imagine that you felt profoundly threatened by women who were smart, talented and powerful. How might you convince them to cede their power to you?

I know! You could trick them into give up real power by replacing it with faux “empowerment” through childbirth and breastfeeding, the very things that left women powerless for all of human history. And you could call it “natural parenting.”

You don’t have to imagine it; that’s what’s been happening to women for the past few decades. Within the natural parenting movement the word empowerment is promiscuously applied to reproductive functions. Women claim to be empowered by unmedicated birth or by birth at home; women claim to be empowered by extended breastfeeding, tandem breastfeeding, breastfeeding photo shoots and breastfeeding stunts. I’ve been pondering for years how women can be empowered by bodily functions and then I realized that such “empowerment” is a way to convince women to stop reaching for real legal, political and economic empowerment.

The entire industry of natural parenting is dedicated to convincing women to relinquish real power in exchange for the faux “empowerment” of emulating their foremothers who were little more than chattel.

That kind of attitude goes beyond trying to counter the more exaggerated claims of natural parenting advocates. It’s making assumptions about their motivations to cast them as evil oppressors of women. Even though most of the activists in this sphere are women. Yes, there are some who advocate natural parenting as part of a general patriarchal mindset. The Duggars being one notorious example. But here she assumes everyone has the same motivations.

I also find the “you were tricked into believing this because no one could really believe it on their own” attitude towards those who disagree, to be very offputting, as well. She’s not going to win many hearts with this approach. Simply cement any preconceptions about arrogant doctors presuming to know what’s best for everyone without respect for their beliefs.

 

[RPRPsych]

And I don’t think it’s as easy as blaming the anti-vaxxers or anti-hospital birth crowd. I don’t agree with them, but I also don’t think merely ridiculing and dismissing them is the solution. For example, Dr. Amy of the “Skeptical OB” blog doesn’t just express skepticism about “natural parenting”, she expressly connects it to anti-feminist ideology, that she seems to find to be self-evidently Bad.

Have women been tricked into giving up real power for “empowerment” through childbirth and breastfeeding?

That kind of attitude goes beyond trying to counter the more exaggerated claims of natural parenting advocates. It’s making assumptions about their motivations to cast them as evil oppressors of women. Even though most of the activists in this sphere are women. Yes, there are some who advocate natural parenting as part of a general patriarchal mindset. The Duggars being one notorious example. But here she assumes everyone has the same motivations.

I also find the “you were tricked into believing this because no one could really believe it on their own” attitude towards those who disagree, to be very offputting, as well. She’s not going to win many hearts with this approach. Simply cement any preconceptions about arrogant doctors presuming to know what’s best for everyone without respect for their beliefs.

Good points. The attitude and ideology of some of the medical profession (and the pharmaceutical industry) is also to blame for this. As a member of that profession, I feel sort of responsible.

 

[bitterhope]

There are countries where medical doctors and the government kind of earn the suspicions by their actions and deeds. Not everywhere in the world has been blessed with good doctors and usually those places have even worse politicians. For instance, in Mexico C sections are routine. If you go to a doctor to give birth in the US they do what they can to prevent a c section. In Mexico Drs try to convince women a c section is best and if they fail they will invent reasons to make one necessary. These major surgeries are not necessarily performed in hospitals. Many are done in clinics or dr offices and a few hours later the lady is released. Often she walks miles to her home carrying a newborn. Sanitation is not ideal and many times these ladies develop complications including infections which then are used as excuses for Drs to tie a woman’s tubes or insert IUDs. Sometimes without permission. Home birth is often safer than going to a doctor. Especially since Drs won’t treat infections or other complications until paid in full in advance. There are no payment plans. Cash in advance or no treatment. After paying for the initial surgery most families have no money left for additional treatments. Drs also push bottle feeding children as better than breastfeeding. It’s no wonder that people don’t trust doctors and government officials some places. As for people here in the US, not all doctors are honest, listen to patients, or provide decent care. We are blessed to have really good health care compared to many places, but it’s far from perfect. I do vaccinate my kids on schedule and I feel like it’s super important to do so. I do respect a parent’s right to choose not to. I feel like if medical and government officials built a solid reputation that is transparent and deserves trust, and these same people also trusted their patients and patients family members (instead of viewing them as idiots and liars), most parents would jump at the chance to vaccinate, give birth safely in hospitals, provide routine health exams, etc. Unfortunately many people’s experiences breed distrust instead.

Two years ago my twins died from sepsis due to an easily treated bladder infection. If the dr had just listen to me, took a sample, and treated me most likely they would be fine right now. Instead they were stillborn. I was injured while delivering them and have since had two miscarriages. My current OB has said it is unlikely I will ever carry another baby to term again. And all this happened at a very good teaching hospital right here in the US. Things happen but it would be much easier to handle and accept it when things do go wrong if doctors respected us enough to listen and believe us when we mention what we have going on with our bodies. If they didn’t brush us off as over reacting or being depressed or seeking attention (in my case I was accused of trying to get my husband home from deployment) and instead were taken seriously, most of us would trust more. It is getting harder and harder to find good medical professionals. I believe that is why more people are jumping on conspiracy theory bandwagons and such. Being ridiculed and called liars and worse just compounds the problem.

 

[RPRPsych]

There are countries where medical doctors and the government kind of earn the suspicions by their actions and deeds. Not everywhere in the world has been blessed with good doctors and usually those places have even worse politicians. For instance, in Mexico C sections are routine. If you go to a doctor to give birth in the US they do what they can to prevent a c section. In Mexico Drs try to convince women a c section is best and if they fail they will invent reasons to make one necessary. These major surgeries are not necessarily performed in hospitals. Many are done in clinics or dr offices and a few hours later the lady is released. Often she walks miles to her home carrying a newborn. Sanitation is not ideal and many times these ladies develop complications including infections which then are used as excuses for Drs to tie a woman’s tubes or insert IUDs. Sometimes without permission. Home birth is often safer than going to a doctor. Especially since Drs won’t treat infections or other complications until paid in full in advance. There are no payment plans. Cash in advance or no treatment. After paying for the initial surgery most families have no money left for additional treatments. Drs also push bottle feeding children as better than breastfeeding. It’s no wonder that people don’t trust doctors and government officials some places. As for people here in the US, not all doctors are honest, listen to patients, or provide decent care. We are blessed to have really good health care compared to many places, but it’s far from perfect. I do vaccinate my kids on schedule and I feel like it’s super important to do so. I do respect a parent’s right to choose not to. I feel like if medical and government officials built a solid reputation that is transparent and deserves trust, and these same people also trusted their patients and patients family members (instead of viewing them as idiots and liars), most parents would jump at the chance to vaccinate, give birth safely in hospitals, provide routine health exams, etc. Unfortunately many people’s experiences breed distrust instead.

Two years ago my twins died from sepsis due to an easily treated bladder infection. If the dr had just listen to me, took a sample, and treated me most likely they would be fine right now. Instead they were stillborn. I was injured while delivering them and have since had two miscarriages. My current OB has said it is unlikely I will ever carry another baby to term again. And all this happened at a very good teaching hospital right here in the US. Things happen but it would be much easier to handle and accept it when things do go wrong if doctors respected us enough to listen and believe us when we mention what we have going on with our bodies. If they didn’t brush us off as over reacting or being depressed or seeking attention (in my case I was accused of trying to get my husband home from deployment) and instead were taken seriously, most of us would trust more. It is getting harder and harder to find good medical professionals. I believe that is why more people are jumping on conspiracy theory bandwagons and such. Being ridiculed and called liars and worse just compounds the problem.

I’m very sorry to hear about what happened to you, and am praying for you.

I have my own reasons for being leery of the medical profession, especially OB-GYNs (out of respect for the women in my family, I won’t provide details, though. )