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pharoahogc
Guest
i was just wondering say if the couple wasn’t working out at all or if a husband treats his wife bad can she divorce, but i also know its a sin
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JoePurnell
Guest
I quote Frs. Rumble and Carty from the second volume of their book Radio Replies #794
“A civil divorce on the understanding that it gives a legal right to separation but that it in no way dissolves the latent bond of marriage and gives no right to remarriage whilst both parties still live, is permitted at times for very grave reasons. But under no circumstances does the Catholic Church permit divorce in the sense of abolishing the bond of marriage and as giving a right to remarry, where baptized people are concerned.”
God bless,
Joe
“A civil divorce on the understanding that it gives a legal right to separation but that it in no way dissolves the latent bond of marriage and gives no right to remarriage whilst both parties still live, is permitted at times for very grave reasons. But under no circumstances does the Catholic Church permit divorce in the sense of abolishing the bond of marriage and as giving a right to remarry, where baptized people are concerned.”
God bless,
Joe
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Tim_Kirchoff
Guest
Civil divorce does not dissolve the bond or marriage- of course, the marriage may not have been valid in the first place, thqat’s why we have the annulment process, whuch is more or less an acknowledgement that the Sacrament never actually occurrred for some reason…
But it is not sinful for, for example, a wife to leave an abusive husband. It is for her own protection, and it is alright by the Church, so long as she does not try to remarry.
But it is not sinful for, for example, a wife to leave an abusive husband. It is for her own protection, and it is alright by the Church, so long as she does not try to remarry.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
I think separation, which may require a civil divorce to protect ones property rights, is allowable if a spouse and/or children are in physical or moral danger. However, such a civil divorce does not give one themoral right to attempt remarriage.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Divorce is sometimes necessary, but should be avoided if possible.
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daeve
Guest
Divorce is the civil end of a marriage. It’s not a sin. The marriage bond is until death.
The sin is in remarrying because you’re already married.
The sin is in remarrying because you’re already married.
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1ke
Guest
Here is what the Church teaches about divorce. The answer is that yes it can be a sin. It is not always a sin.
Divorce
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.
Between the baptized, “a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.”
2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.
**If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. **
2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.
2386 **It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. **There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.
Divorce
2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.
Between the baptized, “a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death.”
2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.
**If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. **
2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:
If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.
2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.
2386 **It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. **There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.
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daeve
Guest
I’ve been trying to respond to this explanation of when divorce is and isn’t a sin, and I can’t, except to say that as the innocent deserted spouse these words hurt me immeasurably. My emotions were beat into the ground by the man I married, and then my pastor tried to finish the job. He told me we had to “rethink my position in the parish”, and “fired” me as an RCIA teacher and as editor of the Sunday bulletin. Apparently I wasn’t fit once my husband decided he needed a newer model. I’m outta here now, because I don’t ever want to get back to that awful place again. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but such is life.
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drafdog
Guest
No. It is not a sin.
Article 2384 quoted above presumes a marriage in the sacramental sense. Given marriages that end because of infidelity, physical and/or emotional abuse, alcoholism or drug addiction there is no marriage bond in the sacramental sense and hence no offense against the natural law. In point of fact the pretense of a marriage under those circumstances is an offense against the natural law.
Matthew
Article 2384 quoted above presumes a marriage in the sacramental sense. Given marriages that end because of infidelity, physical and/or emotional abuse, alcoholism or drug addiction there is no marriage bond in the sacramental sense and hence no offense against the natural law. In point of fact the pretense of a marriage under those circumstances is an offense against the natural law.
Matthew
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1ke
Guest
This is untrue. A marriage can be valid and sacramental despite the things you list. Even if the spouses separate physically and/or legally. the bond remains and they are not free to marry again.
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ljprevo
Guest
I am so sorry that you experienced that. That was completely wrong. Trust me this is not the stance of the Catholic Church. You were not dating or seeing any other man were you?
If your spouse leaves you and files for divorce in civil court, though that divorce may go through, as long as you do not enter into any other relationship (unless you have an anullment) you are perfectly fine and you are not the one in sin.
I would have taken this right to the bishop if my priest snubbed me like that.
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otjm
Guest
Would that I could have a word with the pastor. He might not like what I had to say, but perhaps he might rethink his attitude.
I would hope that your “outta here” is not out of the Church. A pastor is only the representative of the Church at the parish you are in. He is by no means the only representative, nor is he representative of most pastors. You are not too sensative; you are wronged twice. It is hard to keep in mind, with such an insult added to injury, that ordination is not a guarantee of indefectibility, or wisdom, or even common sense. I would hope that you could gain that perspective, and find some healing of these wounds.
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joseph_virgen
Guest
A man beats his wife in private, belittles her in public. In essence, abuses her at his whim. Now the question is
oes this woman by divorcing her husband enters into sin? No.
The Nazarene spoke of divorce in the context that men were divorcing women at their singular pleasure. The only way to protect women was to make it more difficult for men to divorce them, thus leaving them without the true means to survive.
oes this woman by divorcing her husband enters into sin? No.The Nazarene spoke of divorce in the context that men were divorcing women at their singular pleasure. The only way to protect women was to make it more difficult for men to divorce them, thus leaving them without the true means to survive.
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daeve
Guest
I wasn’t coming back, but I’m a glutton for punishment, I guess. That must be why I hung on to that marriage for almost 16 years.
I have not “seen” another man since we started dating in 1971, in any but the most literal sense of the word. I was too busy raising children and running his business. I’ve been divorced for 16 years and still haven’t. He’s been married for 15 of those years.
I believe I could get an anullment based on discussions and promises made prior to marriage, that were pretty much lip service, that is, what the little Italian Catholic girl wanted to hear. I realized very soon, he didn’t mean any of those things. But I believe that marriage is forever, and I would have a very hard time trusting a man again. My sad little story.
As for the priest, yes, he was a jerk. When we came back home, the parish priest and school of religion here were also less than welcoming, which is how I wound up in a totally different parish in another suburb. I also had trouble with the Cub Master and some families in our pack. I was assitant Cub Master and the committee chairman was also divorced. The familes from the local Christian school started their own pack because they thought she and I, as well as the several families who were employed by Anheuser Busch (this is St. Louis, after all) were bad influences on their children. This was 3 years after I personally arranged for them to be invited to our pack because their school couldn’t afford their own. My own grandfather thought of me as spoiled goods, and told me time and time to “go back-a to you husband”. Even today, the stigma of divorce haunts some of us, while others get married over and over and over. Again, such is life.
I’m the one who filed. He moved to a state that required 18 months residency before you could file. He wanted to take the kids to Disney World with his girlfriend, and I refused. HE could them, but not with her. We were still married, and they were already confused about Dad living with old what’s-her-name and his sister still married to Uncle Bub but living with George who was still married to Esther. Yes, all made up names. I filed at that point, but his lawyer got a COURT ORDER saying I had to let him take the kids to Disney World and visit him in the home he shared with another woman. My lawyer told me not to fight it because it would cost money I didn’t have and I wouldn’t win. He did cave in and the girlfriend didn’t go…at least that’s what I was told way back in 1989, and no one has ever slipped up and said something else. Can you tell this is a sore subject with me, even this far after the fact? People tell me I must be still in love with him. NO! But there are many times I mourn for the marriage and the life I expected to have, don’t and never will. It’s not fun growing old alone, and knowing that can never change.
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daeve
Guest
“outta here” referred to the thread, but as you can see, I’m still here. I did leave the church – for the 2nd time – but not until after the kids and I moved back home and felt alienated again at my parents’ parish. I developed a pretty tough hide for a while, went back to college and woe to any teacher who looked at me cross-eyed. I ripped holes in a particular Data Processing 101 teacher more than once. I reported my advisor to the dean for making a crack about my weight – and I wasn’t fat at that time, although I’ve always been zoftig, even when I weighed 100 pounds. I’ve mellowed a bit since then.
I came back about 2001, when my sister asked me if I could help them out for Christmas Eve Mass and sing in the choir. I started going to Mass on Sundays, just for the choir practice for Christmas, and stayed. It took me a while to go to confession – a long while – but it was important to me to receive communion at my mother’s funeral so I finally did it. Not quite as bad as I remembered, but I have since found a priest who is filled with compassion and understanding, and a genuine love for people.
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ljprevo
Guest
If you have not entered into another relationship, you are not sinning, he is. However you could still go through the annulment process, unless you honestly feel your marriage to him is valid, however even though you feel it is valid and very much may be 100% on your part and what you have brought to the marriage, it may not be, and sure sounds like it may not be, then the marriage is not valid, even though again, like I said you have done your part completely.
however again, you are not in sin and the way that priest treated the matter is completely uncalled for. You are even able to still receive the sacraments.
I commend you for not entering another relationship and stand true to your marriage, VERY, VERY commendable! However it is up to you weather you want to seek an annulment for closure or not.
Again, many, many prayers for you on this end of the net!
however again, you are not in sin and the way that priest treated the matter is completely uncalled for. You are even able to still receive the sacraments.
I commend you for not entering another relationship and stand true to your marriage, VERY, VERY commendable! However it is up to you weather you want to seek an annulment for closure or not.
Again, many, many prayers for you on this end of the net!
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daeve
Guest
Well, thank you. That’s very kind. And I’ll tell anyone who wants to hear it, that raising kids alone is a terrible thing. It’s way too hard, no matter how much you put into it. I thank God everyday for having parents like mine who stepped in to help me. “He” (I have a name for him, but I’ll refrain from using it here – it’s not that bad, but it is coarse) paid the child support, but he wasn’t part of their lives from the time they were 6 and 8 years old. The younger one doesn’t speak to him, but then the older one doesn’t speak to me, so go figure. I know I could probably get an annullment, but from what I’ve seen of my friends’ husbands I don’t think I want to get married again anyway. I do like to joke that if I ever got married again, it would have to be to some really old guy with a ton of money and no kids of any age, who was just about to kick the bucket.
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ljprevo
Guest
I highly agree with you and commend you highly for raising your kids.
Before I met my current wife, I was with my two adopted kids, alone for about a year and a half. When my ex went to prison (sex abuse of the kids, lost her rights) I went from being Dad to Mom&Dad over night, and I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, commend single parent, esp single mothers, because trust me, though I managed it was rough and I don’t know how single parents do it.
Every child needs a loving mother and father in a stable home and what ever parent breaks that because of thier own greed and selfishness should be shameful.
Again, wonder job you have done.
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daeve
Guest
I’m not so sure about how good a job I did – they’re not quite the people I thought they would be – but I do know, after much prayer and counselling, that I did the best I could do under the circumstances.I highly agree with you and commend you highly for raising your kids.
Before I met my current wife, I was with my two adopted kids, alone for about a year and a half. When my ex went to prison (sex abuse of the kids, lost her rights) I went from being Dad to Mom&Dad over night, and I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, commend single parent, esp single mothers, because trust me, though I managed it was rough and I don’t know how single parents do it.
Every child needs a loving mother and father in a stable home and what ever parent breaks that because of thier own greed and selfishness should be shameful.
Again, wonder job you have done.
Good for you too. It breaks my heart to see these teen aged girls who think they can raise a child on their own. There are tons of people who do it and do it well, but it’s not twice as hard, but 1000 times harder.
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