“A few parishioners left in tears”

[PJM]

Why not pray for him to leave the flock?

marietta

My dear friend in Christ,

If I were to ask you to explain the contents of the entire bible, both the Old and the New testament is a SINGLE word, would not “Love” be the answer?

a former pastor use to ask from time to time:“who died and left you in charge?”

Is not the Golden Rule… Treat other as you would choose to be treated. "Love your neightbor as yourself.

I personally find it frightning that non Catholic Christains are exposed to some of our post.

Nothing in the orginal post tells us if the priest is “an active homo sexual” which is definately sinful, and his Bishop should intervene to see if he (the priest) is capable of fulfilling his priestly duties or not. His Bishop and God make the call, not you and me.

If he is inactive, and commits to not propagating this error, bishops call, he might be used in a different capacity than parish priest?

My dear friends, the most important thing Jesus teaches is to Love God with al our minds, wills and souls, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

May God’s love shine through you and all of us

Pat Miron
Marian Catechesit

 

[estesbob]

My dear friend in Christ,

If I were to ask you to explain the contents of the entire bible, both the Old and the New testament is a SINGLE word, would not “Love” be the answer?

a former pastor use to ask from time to time:“who died and left you in charge?”

Is not the Golden Rule… Treat other as you would choose to be treated. "Love your neightbor as yourself.

I personally find it frightning that non Catholic Christains are exposed to some of our post.

Nothing in the orginal post tells us if the priest is “an active homo sexual” which is definately sinful, and his Bishop should intervene to see if he (the priest) is capable of fulfilling his priestly duties or not. His Bishop and God make the call, not you and me.

If he is inactive, and commits to not propagating this error, bishops call, he might be used in a different capacity than parish priest?

My dear friends, the most important thing Jesus teaches is to Love God with al our minds, wills and souls, and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

May God’s love shine through you and all of us

Pat Miron
Marian Catechesit

The priest openly defied his Bishop and then walked and left the parish without a pastor.

You are correct that God did not leave you in charge however he did leave his church in charge. It is frightening me that people who come to these forms looking for information about the church run across posts like yours where you berate those who adhere to the teachings of the church and instead espouse New Age pablum. It is amazing ,absolutely amazing ,how many people rationalize supporting sin under the guise of love…

 

[marietta]

estesbob:

To whom have you addressed this most recent post?

I would hate for poor, dear PJM to take the heat for a gripe you have with me.

marietta

 

[mcs7474]

po18guy writes:

“It is certainly something which can be modified through behavior.”

How does a practicing homosexual modify his behavior in order to be welcomed back into the Church? Deny his preference? Pretend to be hetero? I can see this response coming: “He could pray, refuse to act on his drives, pray, give it up to God, pray . . .” Is it so difficult for a practicing Catholic to entertain the notion that, for true homosexuals, the “lifestyle” is not a dalliance or an experiment or a rebellion? This is the way they are hardwired.

Catholics’ aggressive push for women to continue problem pregnancies which ultimately will bring babies into the world who have Tay Sachs, anencephaly, cystic fibrosis, any of the trisomies *also *lobby for women to carry feti to term who five or ten or twenty-five years after birth discover, as young men, that they are not sexually attracted to women but rather to men. Catholics very nearly demand the birth of these children and then piously close God’s door in their faces.

It’s just a door. A door closed by ignorance. At least God has an open heart.

marietta

Your mind has been heavily distorted by the world…

 

[estesbob]

estesbob:

To whom have you addressed this most recent post?

I would hate for poor, dear PJM to take the heat for a gripe you have with me.

marietta

It was addressed to PJM, not you.

 

[marietta]

MCS7474:

You are entitled to your opinion.

marietta

 

[PJM]

The priest openly defied his Bishop and then walked and left the parish without a pastor.

You are correct that God did not leave you in charge however he did leave his church in charge. It is frightening me that people who come to these forms looking for information about the church run across posts like yours where you berate those who adhere to the teachings of the church and instead espouse New Age pablum. It is amazing ,absolutely amazing ,how many people rationalize supporting sin under the guise of love…

Reply:
Thanks for the rebuke:blush:

The point I was making is that we are indeed to teach and correct, but did I miss something about not having to do it in a loving manner?

Point Two: Much is being said about disobeying his bishop, but what about his disobedience to God? Marriage is one of God’s seven Sacraments, and is defined as being between a man and a women. Did’t God tell Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and go forth and multiply?”

Point three: Where does the Church teach that you and I have a right (note I am not saying obligation) to pass judgement on individuals as individuals?

I’m looking foward to your enlightened response.

Again thanks for the rebuke,
God’s continued blessings,
Pat Miron
Marian Catecheist

 

[estesbob]

Reply:
Thanks for the rebuke:blush:

The point I was making is that we are indeed to teach and correct, but did I miss something about not having to do it in a loving manner?

Point Two: Much is being said about disobeying his bishop, but what about his disobedience to God? Marriage is one of God’s seven Sacraments, and is defined as being between a man and a women. Did’t God tell Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and go forth and multiply?”

Point three: Where does the Church teach that you and I have a right (note I am not saying obligation) to pass judgement on individuals as individuals?

I’m looking foward to your enlightened response.

Again thanks for the rebuke,
God’s continued blessings,
Pat Miron
Marian Catecheist

Nobody here said it shouldn’t be done a loving manner. My biggest problem with your post" I personally find it frightning that non Catholic Christains are exposed to some of our post.

Many of us are often chastised for espousing church teaching… Usualy this followed up by variation on your theme that all we have to do is love and everything else takes care of itself. Too often people believe love should be coupled with acceptance. And way too often people feel that we are not to be judgmental lest we be guilty of not showing love.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Reply:
Thanks for the rebuke:blush:

The point I was making is that we are indeed to teach and correct, but did I miss something about not having to do it in a loving manner?

Point Two: Much is being said about disobeying his bishop, but what about his disobedience to God? Marriage is one of God’s seven Sacraments, and is defined as being between a man and a women. Did’t God tell Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and go forth and multiply?”

Point three: Where does the Church teach that you and I have a right (note I am not saying obligation) to pass judgement on individuals as individuals?

I’m looking foward to your enlightened response.

Again thanks for the rebuke,
God’s continued blessings,
Pat Miron
Marian Catecheist

No one is passing judgement on his person or soul. We are obligated (much more important than a right) to judge sin accordingly. there is no way that the priest in question did not know he was causing scandal. And there is no way that the priest tried to lesson the severity of the scandal when he called the media to be there after the Mass was completed.
I do not know the priest. I cannot judge him. But his actions are extremely scandalous.

Whether the above post was directed at me or not. If you wanted to have a one on one conversation, you should have used another way to communicate.

 

[PJM]

Nobody here said it shouldn’t be done a loving manner. My biggest problem with your post" I personally find it frightning that non Catholic Christains are exposed to some of our post.

Many of us are often chastised for espousing church teaching… Usualy this followed up by variation on your theme that all we have to do is love and everything else takes care of itself. Too often people believe love should be coupled with acceptance. And way too often people feel that we are not to be judgmental lest we be guilty of not showing love.

My dear friend in Christ, once again I am in your debt.

The point that I was trying to make, and obviously failed to do, is make clear that our non Catholic readers and posters, may not know the teachings of the RCC, however, I have little doubt that they don’t understand the most common and consistant message in the bible, which for a great many of them, is the primary source for unlightenment.

Therefore, because the “fullness of truth rest in the RCC”, we become in a more meaningful way the practitioners in living, not simply explaining our faith.

I can assure you that I have a full and comprehensive understanding of our faith, and indeed have invested literally thousands of hours in the past twenty years learning it.

I don’t calim to know everything, but on the other hand, I am an well informed, practcing Roman Catholic. Thanks for asking.

Your final statement show’s much thought, thanks.

All I was trying to share is, that as we spread the word of God, that we do it with Christian charity. It dosen’t cost any more and has greater returns for God. Amen?

God bless and thanks,
Pat Miron
Marian Catecheist

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

To PJM:

I am sorry that I put that last comment on my post right before this one. It makes it seem as though I am addressing that post to you, and it is not necessarily so.

And, if you are not someone arguing against the Church and Her Faith, I am sorry to have thought that you were. Your last post says that your heart is truly seeking Jesus. So I apologize for any offense to you.

 

[jmcrae]

estesbob claims:

“But you reject everything we base our beliefs on. And then you ask us to accept your beliefs based on nothing more than they are your opinion. Where is the basis for discussion in that?”

I reject much of what you base your beliefs on. I have NEVER asked you or anyone on this forum to accept my beliefs.

So discussion requires that there be a winner?

marietta

Discussion requires some kind of common ground that everyone can agree on.

If I say, “Given that the sky is blue, for greatest realism, outdoor scenes should be painted in the cool spectrum,” and you say, “Well, in my opinion, the sky is actually orange and your habit of painting landscapes in the cool spectrum is what causes people to think the sky is blue - but it’s okay to believe that the sky is blue, if you’re really that stupid,” we have nothing to discuss - especially if you have nothing except your own opinion to show that the sky is actually orange.

 

[Dale_M]

On Thursday, Fresno Bishop John T. Steinbock removed Farrow, 50, as pastor of the St. Paul Newman Center, which primarily serves students and faculty at Cal State Fresno.

“Your statement contradicted the teaching of the Catholic Church and has brought scandal to your parish community as well as the whole Church,” Steinbock wrote in a disciplinary letter that also admonished Farrow against “using the Internet as a means of continuing your conflict with the Church’s teaching.”

The priest also was stripped of his salary and benefits, and ordered to stay away from all church communities he had served.

…n his disciplinary letter, Steinbock said Farrow had abandoned his assignment without offering to discuss the issues. Steinbock said he had no choice but to suspend Farrow, and he hinted that other penalties could follow, including defrocking him. Steinbock did not return calls.
latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gaypriest13-2008oct13,0,2646781.story

 

[marietta]

jmcrae writes:

*“Discussion requires some kind of common ground that everyone can agree on.” *

Do you mean everyone can agree on the choice for the “common ground”? Or do you mean that everyone can agree on the perception of the “common ground”?

The common ground is the topic. If everyone agrees on it, it’s a Tupperware party, not a discussion.

marietta

 

[AndyF]

Pong:

If this person is a true practicing homosexual, are you really going to try to tell me that he has a place in the Catholic Church as he is?

marietta

The nature of this sin is character based. He is lead to identify WITH the sin. This classes it a little different from others I should think. Much of this pastoral work I think would involve self reflection or identity, difficult to do if we resign him as outcast. I just wonder if the normal suggestion to “have him work it out on his own” is the proper approach since he made the error of being open publicly rather than to his superior.

On the other hand I know some themes of casting out in 1-2 Corinthians revolve around unacceptable practices, and HS requires more exposure involving social assistance, evidence the success of self help groups that indicate this is the way to go.

Leaving I agree with. I feel it would require that he take a leave of absence with the insistence that he make headway in a help group followed by a stint in a discernment retreat. Usually I don’t condone a change of assignment, but since this doesn’t involve abuse, a new parish after his therapy would be OK, on close supervision of course.

AndyF

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae writes:

*“Discussion requires some kind of common ground that everyone can agree on.” *

Do you mean everyone can agree on the choice for the “common ground”? Or do you mean that everyone can agree on the perception of the “common ground”?

The common ground is the topic. If everyone agrees on it, it’s a Tupperware party, not a discussion.

marietta

Logic comes in three parts. If, then, and else.

The common ground is the “if” statement.

The areas for debate are the “then” and “else” statements.

But if your “if” statement is, “Whatever is in my head right now is true, regardless of what I was thinking five minutes ago, or what I will be thinking ten minutes from now,” then you have no basis for an “if” statement, which means that there is nothing to debate. It’s all just random noise.

 

[marietta]

jmcrae:

“But if your ‘if’ statement is, ‘Whatever is in my head right now is true, regardless of what I was thinking five minutes ago, or what I will be thinking ten minutes from now,’ then you have no basis for an ‘if’ statement, which means that there is nothing to debate. It’s all just random noise.”

What is the “if” statement here?
How is it followed by “then”?
Apply the “else” component for me with regard to this “discussion”. I don’t see a deficiency. I just see resistance.

marietta