“For us men and for our salvation...”

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Instead of saying “For us men and for our salvation…” is it okay to say “For us and for our salvation”?
 
Dolphin said:
Instead of saying “For us men and for our salvation…” is it okay to say “For us and for our salvation”?
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For personal use? I don’t think it’s wrong… exactly.

When you’re participating in the Church liturgy you should follow the approved translation.
 
My parish priest does not say men and I know many priests who don’t say men either. Do I have to say men or can I say “For us and for our salvation?”
 
Many people do. It is specifically written “for us men” and we’re not supposed to deviate from the approved translation. Still, at worst, it’s illicit.
 
Men here means all mankind. When we pray in a group it is nice if we use the same words. In private use whatever words you want. I don’t think God cares. He reads your heart.
 
I understand man means all mankind but it seems to me that this is:
  1. often misunderstood
  2. should be humankind which is becoming more popular
 
I have heard “for us and for our salvation” quite a few times. While I personally don’t have a problem with the word “for us men”, I understand it is acceptable to just say “for us”.

I think swapping in another word like “humankind” would likely trigger calls to the Bishop, as putting in a completely different word is different from just leaving out “men”. I also don’t think “humankind” means anything different from “mankind” and I further think anyone who would insist on “humankind” is overly hung up on language and will probably want gender neutral pronouns next.
 
I believe, with my rudimentary understanding of Greek, the word we translate as “men” is ἀνθρώπους, which can literally translate to “humans” and doesn’t need to follow the English tradition of “man” as all inclusive. “Men” is actually a different word in Greek.

However, the Latin uses “homines.” I’m not sure how that works.

But I’d follow the current, approved translation.
 
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Dolphin said:
  1. should be humankind which is becoming more popular
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That’s really clunky, though. Nah, either drop “men” or accept the fact that some will pretend to misunderstand it (because come on, nobody actually thinks that it’s saying that Christ only came for the salvation of adult males).
 
A few years ago, I attended Mass at a parish in State College, PA which had “men” in “for us men and our salvation” SCRATCHED OUT in the missalette. The priest also did a noticeable amount of “ad-libbing”.

Needless to say, if I return to that area, I’ll find somewhere else to attend Mass.
 
The approved translation says “for us men”. Be faithful in small things, that you may be faithful in large things.
 
Is it sinful though to not say men?

Same is the case with “May the Lord accept the sacrifice of our hands for the praise and glory of His/God’s name for the good of all His/God’s holy Church.

I hear priests and the majority of parishes by me say God’s there
 
I don’t know if I would call it sinful, but it seems petulant.

EDIT: I would also bet that any priest, and many of the people, who alters these words is dissident in many other acts of defiance as well.
 
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Well let’s all be sure to be very politically correct with our liturgy so that we’re certain not to offend anyone with any gender-specific language.

:eyeroll:
 
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MrZoom said:
A few years ago, I attended Mass at a parish in State College, PA which had “men” in “for us men and our salvation” SCRATCHED OUT in the missalette. The priest also did a noticeable amount of “ad-libbing”.
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I can believe this. Such priests (and they’re almost always older ones) seem to love nothing more than being seen as heroic warriors for “justice” and against “tyranny”, at least in their own minds. I have great contempt for them.

EDIT for the pedantic: I have great contempt for their behavior.
 
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We are all trying to bring about the Kingdom of God, some of us just do it in a different way. I wouldn’t have contempt for a priest, aren’t we called to love one another as Christ loved us?
 
I’ve found similar “edits” to happen within my own parish where I assure you we don’t jump on that bandwagon. It’s usually the individual who knows better than the Church and has taken it upon him/herself to ‘correct’ (vandalize) parish property. (Referring to the scratch-outs in the missallettes.)
 
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Dolphin said:
May the Lord accept the sacrifice of our hands
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You may not have realized there is another inaccuracy in what was typed here. The words are " May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands…"

The text is directed at the priest, because he offers the sacrifice of the Mass on our behalf.

Edit: Also if that’s really what people say in your parish, it kind of sounds like people are chopping off their hands and offering them to the Lord 😆
 
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@Dolphin

It is the duty of every man to uphold the dignity of every women! St. JPII

Women are objectives with porn and plagued
with the curse of abortion. May I suggest that there are more important causes to take up than replacing humankind for mankind. It is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!
 
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