“Meet the female ‘pastors’ who dress and act like priests in Netherlands’ dying Catholic church”

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CTBcin said:
I think that wearing what looks like distinct vestments is definitely walking a dangerous line
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I think the whole thing is walking a dangerous line. Why have these women at the altar at all? What function (especially liturgically) do they actually serve? Outside of the attempt to promote female priests, of course.
po18guy said:
I do not consider LSN to be a credible source of information. IMO, they are alarmist and hysterical
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Lifesite News may be sensationalist, but that is no excuse for these women taking the role they clearly have in these parishes.
 
Well, I’m from England, and I’ve never seen or experienced any liturgical abuses or weird stuff at all. In fact, it seems pretty devout and conservative, at least in all the parishes I have experience of. But Switzerland and Germany. No. Awful. I have to brace myself now if I go to Mass that isn’t FSSP. I think I found a church that I can go to and I go 2 or 3 times. Just feeling is going to be OK, then bam. They do 1 reading, the gospel, 30 minutes of blah blah blah and then it’s the ‘Our Father’ and communion. No Eucharistic liturgy. So it’s not a mass. And yet it’s a priest, plus a couple of women up front. 3 of my 4 kids have left the church. I certainly hold myself responsible to a large extent, but I also feel very sad that they have never experienced the joy or glory of a beautiful, reverential Holy Mass. I live a stones throw from a catholic church that I avoid going in.
 
TheMortenBay said:
I think the whole thing is walking a dangerous line. Why have these women at the altar at all? What function (especially liturgically) do they actually serve? Outside of the attempt to promote female priests, of course.
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Ideally, it wouldn’t happen at all. I can understand what is going on here, but if they’re only having communion/prayer services, they should really find men to do it. Still, regardless of the gender of the person leading these services, there should not be distinctive vestments to confuse them as a priest.
 
If it’s anything like in Germany, they are not just leading Communion services. They are assisting the priest at the altar, dressing to all intents and purposes like a priest, reading the homily while the priest sits down and looks on. I actually find them quite aggressive. It’s definitely like getting female priests in the back door. But no one here seems to care. I’ve lived almost 20 years in Switzerland or Germany, and I don’t know the confiteor because it is never said. Often at least 1 of the readings is skipped.
 
Annie said:
The picture of 4 people in a row in the LSN article are described this by LSN:
Ria Mangnus and Alida van Veldhoven are presented as ‘pastors’ on a Catholic parish’s website in the Netherlands.
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Thanks! I fell for that myself. Slap on wrist for self.

Nevertheless, the garments do look overly elaborate for “pastoral workers”, and blur the distinction with priests. With two woman “pastoral workers” there is also a hint that they are specifically there as female counterparts to the male priesthood. I suspect there are no male “pastoral workers” dressed up like this.
Jessie said:
If it’s anything like in Germany, they are not just leading Communion services. They are assisting the priest at the altar, dressing to all intents and purposes like a priest, reading the homily while the priest sits down and looks on. I actually find them quite aggressive. It’s definitely like getting female priests in the back door. But no one here seems to care. I’ve lived almost 20 years in Switzerland or Germany, and I don’t know the confiteor because it is never said. Often at least 1 of the readings is skipped.
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Thanks for the information from the ground! Here we are only speculating on the trustworthiness of the article, but your experience very much supports it.

And what you have described is a very hard life for a Catholic who just wants the liturgy celebrated as it should be. 😦 … Many, even most of us, have disappointments there, but not on the scale you’ve experienced and with little hope of improvement - on the contrary, it seems bent on getting worse.
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When I read the headline of the thread I thought it was something Protestant.
We do not call priests “ Pastors” where I live. Pastor goes for Protestant ministers where I live.
I took some time to adapt in a different place. Same as it was puzzling not to be able to find a rosary in a Christian store. We had always been referred to as Christians as well.
I really felt odd . I had no idea a Christian school could be run by a couple of Protestant persons or Pastors, and not by a whole body to say it somehow.
It can get complicated sometimes.Clear to the locals but not so much for newcomers.And it happens with different things other than religion.
Never heard about the vestments either.
 
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Yeah, I’ve heard the situation in Germany has been pretty bad. I wouldn’t expect the Netherlands to be much better.
 
CTBcin said:
but if they’re only having communion/prayer services, they should really find men to do it.
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Why? There’s no difference between a lay man or a lay woman when it comes to Communion services.
 
TheMortenBay said:
Why have these women at the altar at all?
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While it is wrong for them to say homilies and “co-consecrate” like the article says, female altar servers are permitted.

They shouldn’t wear a chasuble though.
 
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JulianN said:
Why? There’s no difference between a lay man or a lay woman when it comes to Communion services.
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I’d say because it confuses the role of men and women regarding liturgical functions. For the same reasons, I’m generally against female altar servers. (Be warned, this is all my personal opinion).

So I tend to prefer lay men for these roles. If a lay man also happens to be an instituted acolyte, even better. But since no one seems to want to implement instituted acolytes, that would be very rare.

Of course, ideally, there would be no need for communion services because there’s always a priest present; but alas, here we are.
 
Why not report this to your bishop?

If this occurs without some sort of valid permission from the bishop then it should be reported.
 
I wrote to the bishop years ago and he ignored me. I think it’s well known and supported. I was moved to try again, but I cannot even see how you contact him. How do you contact a bishop. On the diocesan website I could not see a way. I spoke to the FSSP and he said it was not even worth speaking to the priest because they are so hardened in their views and have the support of the congregations who push for this. The priest a couple of weeks ago (while the female pastoral assistant sat down for a change). My relief was short lived though because he gave an impassioned speech about the famale priesthood and how we should pray for modernisation in the church and all the wonderful opportunities of this amazon
synod. Obviously we were the all invited to join in the Doxology. I am pretty tired at regularly having to nudge my daughter and whisper that we actually should not be doing x, y or z.
 
I’m sorry. I was in Switzerland and Germany earlier this year. In Freiburg im Breisgau (Baden Wurttemberg), I stood exactly where Pope Benedict did at the cathedral in the town square in front of a bust of him.

I had a high opinion of the Church in Germany, so I am sorry it is like this. I cannot believe that a priest is allowed to give a homily on how he supports women priests.
 
JSRG said:
Do you have a source for this information that is not as sensationalistic as LifeSiteNews?
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Again? Okay, so, yes LifeSite News is terribly sensationalist, but if you go into the article each of their examples link to the parish websites where they found them. Go there for yourself, look at the examples. The women are mostly mentioned as “pastoral workers,” not pastors. But just see the pictures and read the sites.
It’s really too bad with the LifeSite which cried abuse…
 
Maybe you can go to the secretary of the bishop personally (it should be in or near the cathedral…)
 
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I just googled to get the address, and saw and then read a couple of articles about our Archbishop. So it would appear pointless to raise these issues with him, as he seems to be totally in favour or them. Married priests, divorced and even non-catholics allowed to receive communion, keen on married priests, embracing LGBT relationships, giving women as much scope as possible in the church. So, I shan’t bother then, it would be like complaining to the meat council about the lack of vegan options. :cry:
 
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