“Once Saved Always Saved” #3

[Jimmy_B]

“Once Saved Always Saved” or “OSAS” is an errant belief that many Protestant Christians hold to and there are many different “Protestant” definitions of what “OSAS” actually means.

Which leads us to the second errant Protestant belief, which allows for the “Personal Interpretation of the Bible”.

These two beliefs came from man’s ego and and his own intellect and not from God. They are both anti-biblical and anti-Christian, they are nonsensical and they do not work in the real world. They are both a contradiction.

Many more beliefs that are false have arose from these first two false beliefs (OSAS and Personal interpretation) and they have cause much division and many, million individual cases, where people actually belong to the “religion of their own intellect and ego” and not to any Church that Jesus Christ founded and that God intended for all men.

I am a Roman Catholic, so obviously I disagree with these two fabricated, man-made errors; “OSAS” and “Personal Interpretation of the Bible”.

What are your thoughts?

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[stephe1987]

OSAS can logically be proven false.

There would be no reason for hell if that were the case, and no reason for God to set down laws for His people. Just believe in Christ at one point in your life, and sin the rest of your life and you’re be saved.

We could say hell is for all never-Christians, but that is also false because if a person is ignorant of Christ then that doesn’t mean they are going to hell.

We send ourselves to hell through our actions, and by choosing to live life away from God, against His laws.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Anti-Christian?
Okay.

 

[benidict]

Anti-Christian?
Okay.

bingo! you got it!

 

[1beleevr]

OSAS can logically be proven false.

There would be no reason for hell if that were the case, and no reason for God to set down laws for His people. Just believe in Christ at one point in your life, and sin the rest of your life and you’re be saved.

We could say hell is for all never-Christians, but that is also false because if a person is ignorant of Christ then that doesn’t mean they are going to hell.

We send ourselves to hell through our actions, and by choosing to live life away from God, against His laws.

Was visiting a small church this past Sunday, had a great time, good preaching, great worship music! But the pastor’s wife said something that really made me sit up and take notice! She was talking about following God’s word; and she said,“If I served the Lord for 90 years, and then went out and sinned, I’m going straight to Hell!” I looked at my wife with apuzzled look on my face. Later while discussing what the pastor’s wife said, I remarked,“If she’s right, does that mean grace only works for you once?” Is that how easily God throws away His children? OSAS must be a crucial subject, seeing as how we are on the third installment! I believe that the jury is still out on this issue, and there are no clear answers for either argument! Surely, salvation does not give you a license to sin(most of us don’t need a license anyway!) But, what if your child brought home straight 'A’s for three years, then got an ‘F’ in hi/her senior year? Would you disown them? Jesus paid an infinite price for you and me, and I don’t see(because of grace and mercy) Him turning His back on us!

 

[dottyefarrell]

Was visiting a small church this past Sunday, had a great time, good preaching, great worship music! But the pastor’s wife said something that really made me sit up and take notice! She was talking about following God’s word; and she said,“If I served the Lord for 90 years, and then went out and sinned, I’m going straight to Hell!” I looked at my wife with apuzzled look on my face. Later while discussing what the pastor’s wife said, I remarked,“If she’s right, does that mean grace only works for you once?” Is that how easily God throws away His children? OSAS must be a crucial subject, seeing as how we are on the third installment! I believe that the jury is still out on this issue, and there are no clear answers for either argument! Surely, salvation does not give you a license to sin(most of us don’t need a license anyway!) But, what if your child brought home straight 'A’s for three years, then got an ‘F’ in hi/her senior year? Would you disown them? Jesus paid an infinite price for you and me, and I don’t see(because of grace and mercy) Him turning His back on us!

As I have seen it discussed on other web sites, the woman who was true to the Lord for 90 years, and then in her 91st year sinned, proved by that sin that she was never truly saved in the first place, for if one is truly changed by the Lord after believing, then that woman would never sin. I think that anyone who believes in conversion through the “sinners prayer”, followed by the promise of OSAS, must wonder, “Am I really saved afterall?” For if I should stumble and fall into sin, even 90 years from now, that would “prove” that I was not really saved in the first place.

I think that we can all, if honest, see that this paradigm is not true on the face of it. Man’s fallen nature leads to sin, even if he/she has found the Lord. That is why every day that we live on this planet, we must persevere till the end, growing and knowing the Lord. There are no free rides, and no easy ways into Heaven. The belief in an Eternal Security, (OSAS), does not require any effort, and leads people to a false sense of security.

Just like the parable about the workers in the field, we must persevere to the end. And, the worker who arrives late, is still paid the same as those who have struggled their whole lives. It is never too late to become one of those workers too.

 

[MariaG]

Was visiting a small church this past Sunday, had a great time, good preaching, great worship music! But the pastor’s wife said something that really made me sit up and take notice! She was talking about following God’s word; and she said,“If I served the Lord for 90 years, and then went out and sinned, I’m going straight to Hell!” I looked at my wife with apuzzled look on my face. Later while discussing what the pastor’s wife said, I remarked,“If she’s right, does that mean grace only works for you once?” Is that how easily God throws away His children? OSAS must be a crucial subject, seeing as how we are on the third installment! I believe that the jury is still out on this issue, and there are no clear answers for either argument! Surely, salvation does not give you a license to sin(most of us don’t need a license anyway!) But, what if your child brought home straight 'A’s for three years, then got an ‘F’ in hi/her senior year? Would you disown them? Jesus paid an infinite price for you and me, and I don’t see(because of grace and mercy) Him turning His back on us!

Well if the sin was mortal and if she did not repent of that, the pastor’s wife is right, she is going to hell. We don’t earn our way to heaven with good works. Doesn’t matter what she did before that, but the Church and scripture are pretty clear, unrepented mortal sin get you a ticket to hell.

 

[Newbie2]

One thing that I’ve never received an answer to is that why would St. Paul warn of Apostasy if once one was saved it would be for “always”.

Especially since most Protestants hold scripture as the sole authority on matters of faith.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

One thing that I’ve never received an answer to is that why would St. Paul warn of Apostasy if once one was saved it would be for “always”.

Especially since most Protestants hold scripture as the sole authority on matters of faith.

In my experience, protestants always pick and choose what is convenient to believe in each particular church. Makes no sense to me. I also don’t understand how they can claim that the Holy Spirit leads them and inspires their understanding of the Bible while there are thousands of Protestant denominations out there and so many conflicting interpretations of the Bible.

 

[Justin1982]

In my experience, protestants always pick and choose what is convenient to believe in each particular church. Makes no sense to me. I also don’t understand how they can claim that the Holy Spirit leads them and inspires their understanding of the Bible while there are thousands of Protestant denominations out there and so many conflicting interpretations of the Bible.

Sounds like a cafeteria Catholic.

 

[JonNC]

In my experience, protestants **always **pick and choose what is convenient to believe in each particular church. Makes no sense to me.

Always is a pretty big statement. Do you have some examples, and sources to back them up?

I also don’t understand how they can claim that the Holy Spirit leads them and inspires their understanding of the Bible while there are thousands of Protestant denominations out there and so many conflicting interpretations of the Bible.

I refute this attempt to limit the power of the Holy Spirit by using the example of Father Neuhaus, lifelong Lutheran who converted to Catholicism later in his life. If one believes that the Holy Spirit does not lead non-Catholics, then it seems one must also believe that, for most of his life, Father Neuhaus did not have the Holy Spirit within him. I find this polemic unsustainable.

“Leads” implies a continuous process, and The Church is more than the Church Militant.
If the Catholic Catechism can say that the Spirit “uses these ecclesial communities as a means of salvation”, then certainly one can infer that the Spirit also leads individuals in them.

As for “Once Saved, Always Saved”, Lutherans reject the teaching outright, as do many others.

Jon

 

[elvisman]

Was visiting a small church this past Sunday, had a great time, good preaching, great worship music! But the pastor’s wife said something that really made me sit up and take notice! She was talking about following God’s word; and she said,“If I served the Lord for 90 years, and then went out and sinned, I’m going straight to Hell!” I looked at my wife with apuzzled look on my face. Later while discussing what the pastor’s wife said, I remarked,“If she’s right, does that mean grace only works for you once?” Is that how easily God throws away His children? OSAS must be a crucial subject, seeing as how we are on the third installment! I believe that the jury is still out on this issue, and there are no clear answers for either argument! Surely, salvation does not give you a license to sin(most of us don’t need a license anyway!) But, what if your child brought home straight 'A’s for three years, then got an ‘F’ in hi/her senior year? Would you disown them? Jesus paid an infinite price for you and me, and I don’t see(because of grace and mercy) Him turning His back on us!

**That’s just it. God never turns his back on us. His grace is always there if we are willing to repent and turn away from sin.

It is WE who turn our backs on him when we sin and are unrepentant.

 

[1beleevr]

Sounds like a cafeteria Catholic.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[1beleevr]

In my experience, protestants always pick and choose what is convenient to believe in each particular church. Makes no sense to me. I also don’t understand how they can claim that the Holy Spirit leads them and inspires their understanding of the Bible while there are thousands of Protestant denominations out there and so many conflicting interpretations of the Bible.

It is possible for any individual Christian to be led by the Holy Spirit, regardless of denomination(even catholics), and to be led into Spirit and Truth! This was the promise of Jesus. That’s the beauty of being nondenominational and independent politically.

 

[1beleevr]

As I have seen it discussed on other web sites, the woman who was true to the Lord for 90 years, and then in her 91st year sinned, proved by that sin that she was never truly saved in the first place, for if one is truly changed by the Lord after believing, then that woman would never sin. I think that anyone who believes in conversion through the “sinners prayer”, followed by the promise of OSAS, must wonder, “Am I really saved afterall?” For if I should stumble and fall into sin, even 90 years from now, that would “prove” that I was not really saved in the first place.

I think that we can all, if honest, see that this paradigm is not true on the face of it. Man’s fallen nature leads to sin, even if he/she has found the Lord. That is why every day that we live on this planet, we must persevere till the end, growing and knowing the Lord. There are no free rides, and no easy ways into Heaven. The belief in an Eternal Security, (OSAS), does not require any effort, and leads people to a false sense of security.

Just like the parable about the workers in the field, we must persevere to the end. And, the worker who arrives late, is still paid the same as those who have struggled their whole lives. It is never too late to become one of those workers too.

While I am not one to say that once you are saved, you have a license to sin, but I do wonder about all of God’s amazing servants who sinned after being “saved”. Are they going to Heaven? When you and your wife fight, or she lies, or otherwise sin, are you willing to forgive her, or do you tell her to pack her bags, and hit the door? After knowing Christ like I do, I can’t imagine that anyone who claims to be in Christ, deliberately going on a sin spree This would be totally contradictory to Jesus’s teaching. We know that according to 1John 1:9, that God forgives our sins, if we confess them! Let me ask this question; actually two questions: There are catholic inmates in our prison, many doing life terms. Are they going to Heaven? And if your son/daughter killed someone, and went to prison, do you disown them; are they Hell bound?

 

[1beleevr]

***That’s ***just it. God never turns his back on us. His grace is always there if we are willing to repent and turn away from sin.

It is WE who turn our backs on him when we sin and are unrepentant.

Anyone who has been in Christ for a long time, and who serves their Lord in whatever capacity; whether it be street ministry, feeding the homeless, teaching young people in Bible studies, or whatever, knows that they are usualyy convicted of a sinful thought before it actually happens. Or if they/we do commit a sin, after we’re saved, we are usually rather quick to repent and confess, asking for forgiveness! So, like Paul, we do what we don’t want to do, and don’t do what we want to do!

 

[elvisman]

Anyone who has been in Christ for a long time, and who serves their Lord in whatever capacity; whether it be street ministry, feeding the homeless, teaching young people in Bible studies, or whatever, knows that they are usualyy convicted of a sinful thought before it actually happens. Or if they/we do commit a sin, after we’re saved, we are usually rather quick to repent and confess, asking for forgiveness! So, like Paul, we do what we don’t want to do, and don’t do what we want to do!

Not necessarily.
I’ve known a few people who were very much alive in the Lord and live their lives accordingly - yet fell away.

Just as salvation is a process, so is our cooperation with God’s grace.
Some Protestant will say that if a person fell away - they were never really saved to begin with. That is false because the Bible* (in CONTEXT*) teaches the process of salvation - not the slam-dunk.**

 

[Nicea325]

Not necessarily.
I’ve known a few people who were very much alive in the Lord and live their lives accordingly - yet fell away.

Just as salvation is a process, so is our cooperation with God’s grace.
Some Protestant will say that if a person fell away - they were never really** saved to begin with. That is false because the Bible* (in CONTEXT*) teaches the process of salvation - not the slam-dunk.

Hey Elvisman…long time no see,better yet…hear? Nicely said. You may want to check out the topic about Mary remaining an ever-virgin.

 

[Pier]

Was visiting a small church this past Sunday, had a great time, good preaching, great worship music! But the pastor’s wife said something that really made me sit up and take notice! She was talking about following God’s word; and she said,“If I served the Lord for 90 years, and then went out and sinned, I’m going straight to Hell!” I looked at my wife with apuzzled look on my face. Later while discussing what the pastor’s wife said, I remarked,“If she’s right, does that mean grace only works for you once?” Is that how easily God throws away His children? OSAS must be a crucial subject, seeing as how we are on the third installment! I believe that the jury is still out on this issue, and there are no clear answers for either argument! Surely, salvation does not give you a license to sin(most of us don’t need a license anyway!) But, what if your child brought home straight 'A’s for three years, then got an ‘F’ in hi/her senior year? Would you disown them? Jesus paid an infinite price for you and me, and I don’t see(because of grace and mercy) Him turning His back on us!

1beleevr -

If one is a faithful follower of Christ, but deliberately sins against Him knowingly, and then dies - from what I understand they could very well be in danger of going to hell…

If believers were not in danger of becoming lost, Christ would not have warned us to remain vigilant and stay on the narrow path back to Him. That said, He is our merciful and just judge, and would know exactly what we did and why we did it, ruling accordingly.

God bless you.

 

[1beleevr]

1beleevr -

If one is a faithful follower of Christ, but deliberately sins against Him knowingly, and then dies - from what I understand they could very well be in danger of going to hell…

If believers were not in danger of becoming lost, Christ would not have warned us to remain vigilant and stay on the narrow path back to Him. That said, He is our merciful and just judge, and would know exactly what we did and why we did it, ruling accordingly.

God bless you.

Kind of a contradictory situation, isn’t it? I mean, a faithful follower who deliberately sins, knowing that the wages of sin is death?(spiritual death that is). I do not believe there is a person alive oday(or for that matter, any who have died, including saints), that has not sinned after being saved We still have a sin nature in us, but we also have a conscience, which convicts us when we sin, or think about sin. Sadly, even the pope is not above sin, even though he is your spiritual leader! But thanks to grace and mercy, we have a fighting chance and need that grace on a daily basis! As awesome a follower of Christ that Paul was, he still knew that he was vulnerable to sin, but also knew about forgiveness! Yes, salvation is a continual process, one which should not be taken lightly! Look at the apostles, and other great leaders, who sinned like crazy, and were still found in God’s good graces!