“Once Saved Always Saved” #3

[brb3]

Look at the apostles, and other great leaders, who sinned like crazy, and were still found in God’s good graces!

Which apostles ‘sinned like crazy’ ? When did Christ give any significant sin a pass ? Did He not tell us we would answer for every idle word we speak ?

 

[1beleevr]

Which apostles ‘sinned like crazy’ ? When did Christ give any significant sin a pass ? Did He not tell us we would answer for every idle word we speak ?

So you don’t believe that the apostles sinned after being saved? When were they saved, exactly? Can any human being claim to have never sinned? Of course the Bible does not point out each individual sin, but hey even they were human! And who said that Jesus let any sin pass?

 

[brb3]

So you don’t believe that the apostles sinned after being saved?

Not often. In fact, Paul states in scripture he is not aware of ANY sin offenses he has committed.

Once the Holy Spirit infused the 12, plus Paul … they became Holy vessels for the Lord’s work. Scripture states we must be holy [as Christ is holy] and no unclean person will see God.

Some Christians believe all their future sins were forgiven when they prayed the Sinner’s Prayer many years in their past, and neglect to conform their current lives to true discipleship. They also neglect to confess these current sins or believe Purgatory is needed for those believers who die with venial sins.

The first Apostles new better … and taught lifelong confession, and frequent receipt of the Eucharist was essential for remaining undefiled and IN CHRIST.

 

[DLG123]

It is possible for any individual Christian to be led by the Holy Spirit, regardless of denomination(even catholics), and to be led into Spirit and Truth! This was the promise of Jesus. That’s the beauty of being nondenominational and independent politically.

Sounds like you are neither hot nor cold but luke warm

 

[elvisman]

Hey Elvisman…long time no see,better yet…hear? Nicely said. You may want to check out the topic about Mary remaining an ever-virgin.

Which thread would that be, my friend?
**I was involved in a rather long and heated thread a couple of months ago about that very topic.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

OSAS - Once Saved, Always Saved affirms that the moment a person places their faith in Jesus Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” (or some variant of this phrase), and believes He is the Son of God, their salvation is guaranteed, and nothing they do or say can change this reality.

Here are some objections that are note worthy:

Many Protestants misunderstand Salvation as a "instance in time"
salvation is a 3-dimensional reality with past, present, and future componets:

PAST:
Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph. 2:5-8
even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For by grace** you have been saved** through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;​

PRESENT:
1 Cor. 1:8

He will keep you firm** to the end**, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).

2 Cor. 2:15
For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,​

FUTURE:
Rom. 5:9-10

How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood,** will we be saved through him** from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

1 Cor. 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.​

If OSAS were true, what is the point of God’s judgment after you die?

OSAS is at odds with what St. Paul teaches since the Saint says,
Romans 13:11
And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

First believed in what? This is SAINT PAUL telling you that his “initial belief” has made his salvation “closer”; not that it has been sealed for eternity.

And lastly, OSAS is anti-biblical since you KNOW heaven is “yours” after you have been “saved”
Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

God Bless

 

[Nicea325]

Which thread would that be, my friend?
I was involved in a rather long and heated thread a couple of months ago about that *very *topic.

Thread: Mary,the eternal-virgin.

Hope to hear your (name removed by moderator)ut my friend.

 

[Nicea325]

OSAS - Once Saved, Always Saved affirms that the moment a person places their faith in Jesus Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” (or some variant of this phrase), and believes He is the Son of God, their salvation is guaranteed, and nothing they do or say can change this reality.

Here are some objections that are note worthy:

Many Protestants misunderstand Salvation as a "instance in time"
salvation is a 3-dimensional reality with past, present, and future componets:

PAST:
Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph. 2:5-8
even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For by grace** you have been saved** through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;​

PRESENT:
1 Cor. 1:8

He will keep you firm** to the end**, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).

2 Cor. 2:15
For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,​

FUTURE:
Rom. 5:9-10

How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood,** will we be saved through him** from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

1 Cor. 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.​

If OSAS were true, what is the point of God’s judgment after you die?

OSAS is at odds with what St. Paul teaches since the Saint says,
Romans 13:11
And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

First believed in what? This is SAINT PAUL telling you that his “initial belief” has made his salvation “closer”; not that it has been sealed for eternity.

And lastly, OSAS is anti-biblical since you KNOW heaven is “yours” after you have been “saved”
Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

God Bless

Excellent!

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Excellent!

Thank you. Much of those quotes came from either Karl Keating book or the catholic answers website. In any event, it pretty much destroys this OSAS nonsense. Thank you and God Bless.

 

[1beleevr]

Sounds like you are neither hot nor cold but luke warm

Actually, I’m red hot right this moment in my Christian walk! The Holy Spirit does amazing work in those, whom are willing to be vessels for the spreading of the Gospel(Matthew 28:19-20)

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Actually, I’m red hot right this moment in my Christian walk! The Holy Spirit does amazing work in those, whom are willing to be vessels for the spreading of the Gospel(Matthew 28:19-20)

Who is being addressed in that passage?

 

[1beleevr]

OSAS - Once Saved, Always Saved affirms that the moment a person places their faith in Jesus Christ as their “personal Lord and Savior” (or some variant of this phrase), and believes He is the Son of God, their salvation is guaranteed, and nothing they do or say can change this reality.

Here are some objections that are note worthy:

Many Protestants misunderstand Salvation as a "instance in time"
salvation is a 3-dimensional reality with past, present, and future componets:

PAST:
Titus 3:5

he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Eph. 2:5-8
even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For by grace** you have been saved** through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;​

PRESENT:
1 Cor. 1:8

He will keep you firm** to the end**, irreproachable on the day of our Lord Jesus (Christ).

2 Cor. 2:15
For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,​

FUTURE:
Rom. 5:9-10

How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood,** will we be saved through him** from the wrath. Indeed, if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, once reconciled, will we be saved by his life.

1 Cor. 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.​

If OSAS were true, what is the point of God’s judgment after you die?

OSAS is at odds with what St. Paul teaches since the Saint says,
Romans 13:11
And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed

First believed in what? This is SAINT PAUL telling you that his “initial belief” has made his salvation “closer”; not that it has been sealed for eternity.

And lastly, OSAS is anti-biblical since you KNOW heaven is “yours” after you have been “saved”
Romans 8:24
For in hope we were saved. Now hope that sees for itself is not hope. For who hopes for what one sees?

God Bless

You know, sometimes the Christian life, is like being a student in high school! You are required to have at least a ‘C’ average to graduate. A number of people will have straight 'A’s, and some will fail, because they are lazy or ignorant! It’s kinda like 1Corinthians 3:13-15, which some mistakenly claim to be the basis for purgatory. The text states that ALL will be tested by fire, and that you will be saved, but some will have more fire damage than others. Kind of like the ‘C’ sudent, who barely passes! And what about those who believe that the dead in Christ are in Heaven, or purgatory? If they were in Heaven or purgatory(separate from the body), what would be the point of a resurrection when Christ comes back? Aren’t we going to get glorified bodies. Paul says that they have fallen asleep, to be awakened on that glorious day when Christ returns!

 

[1beleevr]

Who is being addressed in that passage?

We all know that the “original” audience was his 11 disciples But every word that was spoken by Jesus, applies to ALL who believe in and follow Him! We are to be His witnesses on this Earth! And if you don’t believe that, then you are missing out on some incredible ministries!

 

[Pier]

Kind of a contradictory situation, isn’t it? I mean, a faithful follower who deliberately sins, knowing that the wages of sin is death?(spiritual death that is). I do not believe there is a person alive oday(or for that matter, any who have died, including saints), that has not sinned after being saved We still have a sin nature in us, but we also have a conscience, which convicts us when we sin, or think about sin. Sadly, even the pope is not above sin, even though he is your spiritual leader! But thanks to grace and mercy, we have a fighting chance and need that grace on a daily basis! As awesome a follower of Christ that Paul was, he still knew that he was vulnerable to sin, but also knew about forgiveness! Yes, salvation is a continual process, one which should not be taken lightly! Look at the apostles, and other great leaders, who sinned like crazy, and were still found in God’s good graces!

If it is a grave sin committed deliberately, even though the person committing it knows it is against God, and they do not repent, their soul is in danger of going to hell…

I’m speaking of the cardinal sins, not a venial sin where one would end up spending time in purgatory. There are definitely degrees of sin. Just as there are different penalties for different crimes, not all sins warrant the same punishment.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

We all know that the “original” audience was his 11 disciples But every word that was spoken by Jesus, applies to ALL who believe in and follow Him! We are to be His witnesses on this Earth! And if you don’t believe that, then you are missing out on some incredible ministries!

There are “senses” to Scripture. The literal sense is the meaning the human author intented, and the spiritual senses (ie: moral as you are referring too), must be based upon the literal sense. So true, in a moral sense, you can find meaning and depth to the scriptures, but unfortunately, you missed the literal sense in this passage, and this is shown by the lack of a valid Priesthood in your Church (and all non-Apostolic Churches).

catholic.com/library/Bishop_Priest_and_Deacon.asp

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

You know, sometimes the Christian life, is like being a student in high school! You are required to have at least a ‘C’ average to graduate. A number of people will have straight 'A’s, and some will fail, because they are lazy or ignorant! It’s kinda like 1Corinthians 3:13-15, which some mistakenly claim to be the basis for purgatory. The text states that ALL will be tested by fire, and that you will be saved, but some will have more fire damage than others. Kind of like the ‘C’ sudent, who barely passes! And what about those who believe that the dead in Christ are in Heaven, or purgatory? If they were in Heaven or purgatory(separate from the body), what would be the point of a resurrection when Christ comes back? Aren’t we going to get glorified bodies. Paul says that they have fallen asleep, to be awakened on that glorious day when Christ returns!

This doesn’t make too much sense. Either way, where are you getting this theology from?

 

[1beleevr]

There are “senses” to Scripture. The literal sense is the meaning the human author intented, and the spiritual senses (ie: moral as you are referring too), must be based upon the literal sense. So true, in a moral sense, you can find meaning and depth to the scriptures, but unfortunately, you missed the literal sense in this passage, and this is shown by the lack of a valid Priesthood in your Church (and all non-Apostolic Churches).

catholic.com/library/Bishop_Priest_and_Deacon.asp

I suppose that only a “perfect” Christian, who happens to be a member of the perfect church, could set me straight on scripture! But, when Christians, or for that matter anyone who reads the Bible, can and do believe that the words of Christ and the apostles are speaking directly to them! You see, the Holy Spirit(The wind blows where it will), is everywhere, not just in church! And you can meet Jesus anywhere. It still comes down to a matter of interpretation!

 

[1beleevr]

This doesn’t make too much sense. Either way, where are you getting this theology from?

I believe they still call it common sense Reading scripture, guided by the Holy Spirit, one can put it into words that people can relate to. So, in other words, some will barely squeeze into Heaven, and some will boldly strut through those pearly gates! And speaking of purgatory, once a soul is done, does it rejoin the body for th resurrection that Jesus promised us? Or does that only apply to apostles too?

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I suppose that only a “perfect” Christian, who happens to be a member of the perfect church, could set me straight on scripture! But, when Christians, or for that matter anyone who reads the Bible, can and do believe that the words of Christ and the apostles are speaking directly to them! You see, the Holy Spirit(The wind blows where it will), is everywhere, not just in church! And you can meet Jesus anywhere. It still comes down to a matter of interpretation!

You couldn’t be more wrong. This is not found anywhere in Scripture (or History for that matter) - in fact, you are just making it up.

 

[1beleevr]

You couldn’t be more wrong. This is not found anywhere in Scripture (or History for that matter) - in fact, you are just making it up.

Do you mean Jesus’s words being spoken to us as well as the aposles? Why bother reading the Bible, if we don’t believe that Jesus is speaking directly to us? You know, like,“If you love Me, you will follow my Commandments,” is this just for the apostles? How about thou shalt not steal…?