“Once Saved Always Saved” ...

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The Catholic church is who separated itself from the Apostolic Tradition when it ceased simply passing on what it had learned, and started tying heavy loads on men’s shoulders. Sounds similar to a religious group in Jesus’ time.
I do not feel a heavy load in my Catholic faith. Since I returned to Catholicism 3 and a half years ago, after being away 40 years, I feel lighter than ever. I feel peace and love I never felt before. I love my faith in Christ and His Church. There is NO BURDEN ONLY THANKFULLNESS FOR GOD’S GRACE WHICH I DID NOT ASK FOR.
 
The Pope is very polite to everyone. However even Mr. Graham was aware that the Pope considered the doctrinesMr Graham preached to be false.

I think part of the problem here is that you really have no understanding whatsoever of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
That is where, my friend, you are incorrect. I have studied two years on my own and have gone to RCIA so I am very aware of the teachings of the Catholic Church. I am still Protestant, and that is due to family issues. The reason I still uphold my Protestant brothers is because some Catholics don’t disagree with us nicely. I believe 100% of what the Church teaches, but I also believe that God uses ministries of non-Catholics and to say or imply that non-Catholics cannot have valid ministries is incorrect…and goes against tangible evidence.
 
Since you believe that OSAS is false how does the catholic church interpret this passage from John 10:27-29—?

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
How do you know you are one of the sheep? Remember, the path is narrow and many will say they belong to him and will do great works but Jesus will tell them that He never knew them.

So how do you know you are one of the sheep?
 
Since you believe that OSAS is false how does the catholic church interpret this passage from John 10:27-29—?

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
The Church teaches that no one is more powerful than God, and that no one can take a child of God away from the Father. That would imply a lack of free will.

The Church furthers understands that the individual, just like the prodigal son, can choose to leave the Father’s hand at any time, of their own free will.

Paul teaches the same thing… that nothing else can separated us from the Love of God… but we ourselves can.!!

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The Church teaches that no one is more powerful than God, and that no one can take a child of God away from the Father. That would imply a lack of free will.

The Church furthers understands that the individual, just like the prodigal son, can choose to leave the Father’s hand at any time, of their own free will.

Paul teaches the same thing… that nothing else can separated us from the Love of God… but we ourselves can.!!

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This would probably apply to another thread. However, is there such a thing as free will if we do not have grace operating within us? It is grace that begins the process of maturation. Grace gave me the the knowledge of God’s existence and His Love for us. Until His Grace helped me to a certain point of maturity my free will only operated within a limited set of choices based on my level of maturation. Free will is limited and is determined by the quality of our early relationships with those who are given the immense responsibility of being examples of God’s Love. Unfortunately, most of the time we have been given poor examples of God’s Love and consequently there is no love experienced and only the rule of law. Free will in this particular scenario is exercised by looking for that perfect love we are created for. That is why many leave Catholicism. I returned because of God’s Grace and not someone telling me that I was wrong and that I exercised my free will to rebel against God. I was looking for God while I was away and found that God is Love before I ever returned to Catholicism. God’s Grace brought me home and now free will is truly free will because I have been given much and would be absolutely insane to leave.
Those in our Catholic faith who have a hardened heart and cause others to leave or prevent others from seeing God’s Love in our faith will have to explain why they chose not to love. When we exist separate from God’s Love we will appear to have a hardened heart and sound and appear harsh.
 
I am very aware who these gentlemen are, and Dr. Stanley believes in eternal security. His website may not state it point blank, but listen to him preach, which I have, on a daily basis. OSAS and eternal security are the same doctine, just worded differently. He is a Calvinist to the core, which is fine with me, but as a Calvanist, he holds the belief of eternal security. Please don’t assume I have no idea who these preachers are.
You don’t!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrssls View Post
I don’t believe in Her power. Only in the Power of Jesus Christ. She was a mother to Him. Don’t make her more than that.
Her power comes from God who became man through the union of Her and the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to make her more than what God has made her. It is fact that we make her less than what God has made her.
She has no power. Tell me where in the Bible does God give her power. Really, I want to know. But the catholics do make her out to be more than God. Do you pray to our Heavenly Father? No you don’t. You pray to Mary and the Saints. You ask for their help, instead of God’s help.
 
You don’t!
I respectfully disagree with you. If you claim I do not know what I am talking about, PM me and we can discuss this. In the meantime, please don’t make blanket statements without facts about what another person knows and does not know.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrssls View Post
I don’t believe in Her power. Only in the Power of Jesus Christ. She was a mother to Him. Don’t make her more than that.

She has no power. Tell me where in the Bible does God give her power. Really, I want to know. But the catholics do make her out to be more than God. Do you pray to our Heavenly Father? No you don’t. You pray to Mary and the Saints. You ask for their help, instead of God’s help.
Here I will defend Catholic doctrine. Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints to ask them to intercede for us, just like we ask a friend to pray for us. Catholics most certainly ask God for help! I see sola scriptura rearing its head again!!🙂
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrssls View Post
I don’t believe in Her power. Only in the Power of Jesus Christ. She was a mother to Him. Don’t make her more than that.

She has no power. Tell me where in the Bible does God give her power. Really, I want to know. But the catholics do make her out to be more than God. Do you pray to our Heavenly Father? No you don’t. You pray to Mary and the Saints. You ask for their help, instead of God’s help.
I suggest that you read everything about Mary in the Gospels and consider asking God to show you the significance about her being the Mother of God and what it means to be carrying God in her womb.
As far as making her out to be more than God, it seems that you are the one who states that. Nowhere in our faith is it written or spoken about that Mary has a higher status than God. She is the most perfect human being ever created.
 
Why? I have wathced Dr Graham preach many timnes-very uplifting but in the end he is preaching false doctrines
No, he is not preaching a false doctrine. What he teaches lines up with the Word of God. If it lines up with the Word of God, then it’s not false doctrine. You’re looking like a fool here.
 
Originally Posted by t68ware View Post
Do you think when Billy Graham met with John Paul II the Holy Father said something like “Now Billy, you have to stop preaching such false doctrine and sending people to hell because you are such a false teacher?” Or something like that? Interesting the Holy Father had very nice things to say about Billy but you just want to label him a teacher of false doctrine.
The Pope is very polite to everyone. However even Mr. Graham was aware that the Pope considered the doctrinesMr Graham preached to be false.

I think part of the problem here is that you really have no understanding whatsoever of the teachings of the Catholic Church.
We don’t need the teachings from the catholic church. That’s what you’re misunderstanding. All you need to know is what the Word of God says, meaning the Holy Bible and not some other books that you’ve collected in your library that teach a false doctrine.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrssls View Post
I don’t believe in Her power. Only in the Power of Jesus Christ. She was a mother to Him. Don’t make her more than that.

She has no power. Tell me where in the Bible does God give her power. Really, I want to know. But the catholics do make her out to be more than God. Do you pray to our Heavenly Father? No you don’t. You pray to Mary and the Saints. You ask for their help, instead of God’s help.
Here I will defend Catholic doctrine. Catholics pray to Mary and the Saints to ask them to intercede for us, just like we ask a friend to pray for us. Catholics most certainly ask God for help! I see sola scriptura rearing its head again!!🙂
They can’t intercede for you, except for the living ones down here. You can ask for other people to pray for you, just not the ones who are in Heaven, except for Jesus Christ.
 
God works through false doctrines to bring people to Christ???

Just because somebody is rich does not mean God has blessed them. The Prosperity gospel is another bastardization of Chrisitanity that so muddles the message that it is nearly unrecognizable
The teaching of the Church is that the Holy Spirit works through these persons and communities to bring people to God.

The reason this can be done is that there are kernals of truth present. The truth that is taught in these communities is Catholic, and comes from the Catholic Church.
 
We don’t need the teachings from the catholic church. That’s what you’re misunderstanding. All you need to know is what the Word of God says, meaning the Holy Bible and not some other books that you’ve collected in your library that teach a false doctrine.
So then what is the big deal with you? You must then hold to your own words, and reject ANYTHING that Graham or Stanley have to preach or teach.

If all you need is the Bible, go for it.

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As a revert to Catholicism, I recognize that not a day goes by where I have the opportunity to learn something new.

This morning I have revised my opinion on OSAS.

I believe it!!

The reason I now accept OSAS is two fold.

[1] For the deceased who are in heaven, those who have died in God’s graces, … they are saved… and they are now always saved. Truly, they are more alive than we are.

[2] I also believe this happened - OSAS - in one’s lifetime on earth. The key word is ----- one. Mary was saved during her lifetime, and remained saved… OSAS… because only she is aclaimed by the Word of God to be full of grace (by Gabriel, the angel of the Lord). The nature of the word (lots of threads on this already) is perfect past participle…
Mary, is the one exception that proves the rule… the rest of us, at best, work out our ongoing salvation in fear and trembling.

If any of you can also claim to be full of grace (perfect past participle), then you too are OSAS.

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Do you think when Billy Graham met with John Paul II the Holy Father said something like “Now Billy, you have to stop preaching such false doctrine and sending people to hell because you are such a false teacher?” Or something like that? Interesting the Holy Father had very nice things to say about Billy but you just want to label him a teacher of false doctrine.
The two are not incompatible. the Holy Father can be polite and cordial to his brethren in Christ, yet recognize that they are not teaching the fullness of the faith.
 
Since you believe that OSAS is false how does the catholic church interpret this passage from John 10:27-29—?

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
The Catholic Church teaches that man is made in the image an likeness of God. That means we have free choice. We can choose to JUMP out of His hand, to bite the hand that feeds, and run from that hand.

God has given us the same freedom and privilege as the angels,and we can also choose to spurn heaven, and make our abode with Lucifer in hell.
 
They can’t intercede for you, except for the living ones down here. You can ask for other people to pray for you, just not the ones who are in Heaven, except for Jesus Christ.
How do you know what the souls in heaven with God are capable of doing? The saints in heaven are closest to God and certainly have more knowledge about God than we do and also have a direct relationship with God that is not contaminated by an bias or prejudice. Where is it written that the saints in heaven do not pray for us?
 
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