I just re-read that post, and even in that post I note that you said “To be “in communion with Rome” means, when taken down to the least common denominator, to be “out of communion with the Orthodox””. How then can you support “the “goal” of being more Orthodox while in communion with Rome”?Read my [post=9606022]earler post[/post] again, then revert.
I don’t. While I can’t speak for ByzCathCantor, my presumption is that he’s not exactly supporting that idea either.
I was not offering support for that goal, but rather making a related point and noting that a fair number of ECs would find it hard to even appreciate that goal, at least as it is understood here.
I know, dear friend - didn’t mean to imply otherwise.That was Peter … not me.
Actually, I said that about those who speak of “Orthodox in communion with Rome”, not about ECs in general.
Sorry if I misunderstood …
The post wasn’t wordy, to me, Mickey. I can see why you went to Holy Orthodoxy. I guess I haven’t made the jump, yet, because of the Ruthenian community I’m a part of is rather small in numbers, so I think there isn’t much of a chance to be a victim of numbers (more people, particularly those visiting from the Latin rite, stem a probability of insisting on certain changes). In many of the parishioners’ words, I’m becoming a regular. And by regular, I personally extend it to the notion of assimilation to the way things are done there. I came to their church, to learn their ways, not to inject mine into theirs.I will be brutally honest here…and I hope not to offend anyone because no offense is intended. When I was Ruthenian Catholic, I was very Eastern minded (much like ByzCathCantor and others on this forum). I was vehemently against latinizations. I was a zealot…in search of latinizations that needed to be removed from the Eastern Catholic Church. I left the first Church I attended because they still included the Filioque. Another Church I visited said the rosary before every Divine Liturgy and sometimes finished the Liturgy in 45 minutes. I considered myself to be extremely Orthodox and eventually found a Church that was right up my alley. I had never heard of the term “Orthodox in communion with Rome” at the time…but that is probably how I would have described myself. I believed that the Eastern Catholic Church was a true bridge between Holy Orthodoxy and Catholicism…a bridge to reunion. I thought that this is how the Church wouyld have functioned before the schism. I was very wrong. I came to believe the opposite…that it is an impediment to reunion (I believe Rome has said something similar).
And so I was left with a choice.
Sorry for the wordy post.
Appreciated thanks, for providing this, Vico.
The Russian Orthodox do this, too… at least in the OCA diocese of Alaska. Makes the paper every year around February… for all of great lent, nothing with a spine. Not even on Sundays…
My own story has been similar to yours in some ways, although different on a few significant points. The first Melkite parish I went to was very un-latinized (prior to that I had attended a Ukrainian Catholic parish about 8 or 10 times) and so is my current Melkite parish (I moved several years ago); so latinizations are something I’ve heard a lot about, but didn’t experience very much first-hand.I will be brutally honest here…and I hope not to offend anyone because no offense is intended. When I was Ruthenian Catholic, I was very Eastern minded (much like ByzCathCantor and others on this forum). I was vehemently against latinizations. I was a zealot…in search of latinizations that needed to be removed from the Eastern Catholic Church. I left the first Church I attended because they still included the Filioque. Another Church I visited said the rosary before every Divine Liturgy and sometimes finished the Liturgy in 45 minutes. I considered myself to be extremely Orthodox and eventually found a Church that was right up my alley. I had never heard of the term “Orthodox in communion with Rome” at the time…but that is probably how I would have described myself. I believed that the Eastern Catholic Church was a true bridge between Holy Orthodoxy and Catholicism…a bridge to reunion. I thought that this is how the Church wouyld have functioned before the schism. I was very wrong. I came to believe the opposite…that it is an impediment to reunion (I believe Rome has said something similar).
And so I was left with a choice.
Sorry for the wordy post.
The Melkites are the least “latinized” of the Eastern Catholics. In all honesty, if there had been a Melkite Church near me, I probably would have gone there first in my transition to Holy Orthodoxy. It was a gradual process for me. Latin Catholic to Ruthenian Catholic to Orthodoxy…it took about 46 years!
Makes me think of this.
I like this, a lot.Makes me think of this.
**“Once, when I was living near another Elder, he was visited by a virgin, who said: *‘Father, I have fasted for two hundred weeks, eating only on Sundays, and I have recited both the Old and the New Testament. What else remains for me to do?’ ***The Elder replied: *‘And what fruit have you reaped from all of this? Do you consider it an honor to be disparaged?’ ‘No,’ *she answered. *‘Do you reckon loss as gain? Or strangers as relatives according to the flesh? Or poverty as riches?’ ‘Not at all,’ *she replied. The Elder said, ‘Then you have not fasted for entire weeks, nor have you recited the Old and the New Testament. You are just deceiving yourself. Go away and work, for you have not achieved anything.’”
An anonymous Elder
It’s interesting how things are a little more clear-cut in the Middle East (only with regard to this subject matter, I mean). In particular, I feel safe saying that the Melkites are “Orthodox in communion with Rome” and that the Maronites (and the Chaldeans for that matter) aren’t.The Melkites are the least “latinized” of the Eastern Catholics. In all honesty, if there had been a Melkite Church near me, I probably would have gone there first in my transition to Holy Orthodoxy. It was a gradual process for me. Latin Catholic to Ruthenian Catholic to Orthodoxy…it took about 46 years!
I’ll never forget the time that some Melkite priests (and a deacon) were concelebrating with some Ruthenian priests. The Melkite deacon used the term “Orthodox faith” during the Litany instead of “the true faith.” One of the Ruthenian priests was livid after the Liturgy and chewed him out. The Melkites humbly apologized and promptly left …never to return again.
Concluding this on what basis? I’m thinking especially of the Ukraine. Despite the rhetoric between the various Ukrainian churches, the common heritage is undeniable.