“The hour has come .... abandon the practice of Communion standing and in the hand”

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
latinmasslover said:
Should men be ordained who may have lost several fingers? Some are not fit to be priests because the physically cannot do what is required. I’m sure these priests are holy, and this situation is very saddening. However, there are other things they could do that would help the parish aside from offering Mass and distributing Communion. We all have crosses to bear.😦
Click to expand...
:eek: OMG I didn’t know anyone still had those sorts of attitudes.
 
JReducation said:
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

Canons 1008 to 1054 are all about the requirements for ordination, irregularities and impairments.
Click to expand...
From the link:
Can. 597 §1. Any Catholic endowed with a right intention who has the qualities required by universal and proper law and who is not prevented by any impediment can be admitted into an institute of consecrated life.
Can. 641 The right to admit candidates to the novitiate belongs to major superiors according to the norm of proper law.
Can. 642 With vigilant care, superiors are only to admit those who, besides the required age, have the health, suitable character, and sufficient qualities of maturity to embrace the proper life of the institute. This health, character, and maturity are to be verified even by using experts, if necessary, without prejudice to the prescript of can. 220.
Can. 643 §1. The following are admitted to the novitiate invalidly:
…
§2. Proper law can establish other impediments even for validity of admission or can attach conditions.
Can. 644 Superiors are not to admit to the novitiate secular clerics without consulting their proper ordinary nor those who, burdened by debts, cannot repay them.
Can. 645 §1. Before candidates are admitted to the novitiate, they must show proof of baptism, confirmation, and free status.
…
Can. 1025 §1. To confer the presbyteral or diaconal orders licitly, it is required that the candidate, having completed the period of probation according to the norm of law, is endowed in the judgment of his own bishop or of the competent major superior with the necessary qualities, is prevented by no irregularity and no impediment, and has fulfilled the prerequisites according to the norm of cann. 1033-1039. Moreover, the documents mentioned in can. 1050 are to be obtained and the investigation mentioned in can. 1051 is to be completed.
…
Can. 1029 Only those are to be promoted to orders who, in the prudent judgment of their own bishop or of the competent major superior, all things considered, have integral faith, are moved by the right intention, have the requisite knowledge, possess a good reputation, and are endowed with integral morals and proven virtues and the other physical and psychic qualities in keeping with the order to be received.
JReducation said:
As your link indicated, a deaf man can become a priest. This was not heard off in the past.
Click to expand...
Certainly - there are always exceptions to the rule.

DD
 
lovesMary said:
I was totally misinformed, it seems. I see nothing in there regarding physical defects. Thanks, I had read someone that someone with a physical defect, such as missing fingers mentioned here, was precluded from entering the priesthood.
Click to expand...
If I’m not mistaken, there was something in the old canon law about physical deformities and other physical handicaps. But they were taken out. That may be what some people still remember.

JR 🙂
 
latinmasslover said:
As I recall, he was not permitted to hear confessions. Doesn’t seem fair, does it?
Click to expand...
His major superior would not grant him license to hear confessions or preach, but he could celebrate all of the other sacraments.

Usually a Lay Brother preached for him. As Capuchin Lay Brothers are allowed to preach by virtue that St. Francis was a Lay Brother and a preacher. The tradition was always preserved only for them. They are the exception to the rule. But they have to have a theology degree, at least a Master’s Degree in Theology. The Master’s Degree in Theology is the same four year degree that seminarians in diocesan seminaries achieve to become priests.

Though they don’t have the sacrament of Holy Orders, they do have the same training. They get what is called a license or indult, which is different from faculties. Because faculties means that they may preach at any time. License is for a specific circumstance. However, their theological training is the same as any secular priest, four years of college followed by four years of graduate school in theology.

The good thing about this community is that they make very few distinctions between the Brothers who are priests and the lay brothers.

However, in the case of St. John Marie Vianney, he was given faculties to hear confessions by the local bishop. He was not given faculties to preach. He had deacons preach for him. He was allowed to give exhortqtions

It’s really the call of the bishop in the case of a secular priest or the major superior in the case of a religious priest.

Then you have the situation of someone like Dominic who was a priest many years before he became a religious. When he became a religious his Major Superior told him to stop preaching, even though he was a theologian. He was ordered to pray, so was St. John of the Cross. He too was ordered by his Major Superior not to preach.

When you speak of the priesthood and liturgy, it’s not all black and white.

I thank God that we have both the EF and the NO, because they allow for the diversity of circumstances in which priests often find themselves.

JR 🙂

JR 🙂
 
elt1956 said:
Dear Deac. not to be a snot, but I don’t think Jesus would even be discussing this topic. 😉 Peace
Click to expand...
I know. Since he gave it in the hands at the Last Supper, do you think he would still do the same. Just like the early church
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
I_Believe said:
Oh, make no mistake, you are one of the hunted ones. But the wolves do the hunting 😉
Click to expand...
Yes, but I was referring the wolves being hunted by man. Wolves hunt because they have to but are rather peaceful (the North American ones), people hunted them because of an ignorant fear.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/1066/wolf1024.jpg

Really, have you seen anything more beautiful on this earth? And killed for no reason. You could call them the “Jesus of Nature,” because of nature, they’re the most lovely creatures this side of heaven. (no blasphemy intended, just an accurate comparison.)
 
Michael96 said:
:eek: OMG I didn’t know anyone still had those sorts of attitudes.
Click to expand...
The attitude that not everybody has the ability to do whatever they want? Yeah, I know, it’s not common these days. Look at the public school system.
 
With all the problems in the world spending time on this trivia just an example of missing the point of what we should be concerned about.
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I know. Since he gave it in the hands at the Last Supper, do you think he would still do the same. Just like the early church
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Click to expand...
There’s evidence of this, yes? At the Last Supper?
 
JReducation said:
…However, in the case of St. John Marie Vianney, he was given faculties to hear confessions by the local bishop. He was not given faculties to preach.
Click to expand...
Go figure…

SERMONS OF THE CURE OF ARS - EXCERPTS

[](http://www.theworkofgod.org/library/Sermons/JdVianey/Sermons3.htm#THE BELOVED CROSSES)
JReducation said:
…Then you have the situation of someone like Dominic who was a priest many years before he became a religious. When he became a religious his Major Superior told him to stop preaching, even though he was a theologian.
Click to expand...
The founder of the Order of Preachers was forbidden from preaching? Interesting. Passing through Toulouse in the pursuit of their mission, they beheld with amazement and sorrow the work of spiritual ruin wrought by the Albigensian heresy. It was in the contemplation of this scene that Dominic first conceived the idea of founding an order for the purpose of combating heresy and spreading the light of the Gospel by preaching to the ends of the then known world.
ewtn.com/library/MARY/05106A.HTM

DD
 
lovesMary said:
I think, basically our main task in this world is to get logs out of our own eyes, or so I’ve been told.
Click to expand...
True, but after taking the logs out of our own eyes, should we then cover our eyes and ears and then proceed to stick our heads firmly in the sand and ignore everything that is happening around us?
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
If you know your history so well, you will or should know tht in the early Church that is the way it was given.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Click to expand...
If you knew your tradition, you’d know that the want of prople to reduce everything to how it was in the early Church is an error.
 
pnewton said:
The thing is, I think you may have been right, at least in some cases considering Can. 1029 The canon leaves the possibility that the bishop could set some minimum physical standard, based on his own judgment.
Click to expand...
If you look at my post no 125, I said that bishops and major religious superiors can set their own criteria.

For example, I mention Fra. Solanus Casey. He was a Capuchin-Franciscan. Their criteria for ordaining him was his sanctity and were willing to overlook his Learning Disabilities. The same was the case with St. Jean Marie Vianney.

The authority of the Major Religious Superior or the local bishop has not been taken away. They are called to use prudence.

What was taken out of the Canons was the universal regulations regarding physical requirements. One of the reasons that this was done was because the more developed nations of the world argued that we have the financial and other resources necessary to support these priests. Not every country has these resources, therefore, the major superior or the bishop has to make judgement calls based on the resources they have.

This is probably why the deaf young man came to the USA to be ordained. We have resources to deal with people who live with disabilities.

I don’t agree that making accommodations for such priests takes anything away from the liturgy. After seeing the Holy Father with the disabled children, I am more convinced than ever, that these accommodations actually show Christ to the world in a very live form. It enhances the lay person’s experience of the Eucharist.

I know that in our parish we don’t even notice it anymore. At first, people were shocked to see a priest balancing himself on canes and distributing communion. Some people called the superior of the house and bashed him for making the man their pastor. I don’t know if those people are still in our parish, because I have no idea who they were.

However, three years later, no one pays any attention to it. People just go to communion very reverently. I believe that people do understand the practical aspect of it.

We have a church that has no barriers and the friary is a one story building. The Brothers have an obligation to accommodate their confreres and they are doing us a favour by being in our parish. They don’t have an obligation to be in our parish. They are a religious community. They can go elsewhere if we don’t want their disabled confreres, but where would we be?

I think that all of these things have to be taken into account. We want to be reverent, but reverence must give birth to charity and gratitude.

We often forget that these men do not have to serve us. Whether they are secular or regular, they can ask to leave our parishes. That puts the bishops in a difficult spot of finding priests who will serve us.

We have to be very careful not to become so inflexible that we do harm to ourselves and to our parishes.

JR 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top