“They preach tolerance but give none”

[Cal_Catholic]

Prop 8 campaigners run into more trouble, this time in Berkeley

Full article…

 

[wynnejj]

I attended the University of Rochester from 1969 to 1973. Gay activism was very prevalent but subdued. Feminist activism was less noticeable, almost non-existent. When I came back to visit in 1974, I attended an open discussion of the feminist movement in one of the eating concessions and, the female sponsors (from off campus) were very militant and spoiling for a fight. The students appeared to be just taking it in. I was surprised that none of the female students raised any counter points. I remember making a “Yeah. Right!” heckle, and one of the female agitators came over and knocked my legs off, which were stretched out on another chair, onto the ground. I was taken off-guard needless to say, because I thought this was all silly rant, not militant. I left quietly. No way was I going to fight a girl over nonsense, or for any reason. I couldn’t believe how much campus life had devolved into radical, militant stances in one year.

The TFP do great work, and it is good to hear that many students react to the intolerance of the homosexuals as a testament to their “unmutual” behavior (“unmutual” is a phrase used in the cult TV classic “The Prisoner”).

 

[peregrinus_WA]

The Marxist Socialist Left does not like opinions that are opposed to theirs. If they cannot criminalize those opinions they will turn to violence to silence those opinions. This is just another example of this.

 

[Dale_M]

the article:

But when a flier was thrown out, the pro-homosexual activists cheered and howled in piercing, shrieking and frantic tones.

Oh brother.

TFP seems to be deliberately courting controversy. This is at least the third liberal bastion which they have taken their protest. CalCatholic shouldn’t be giving them space to spin their mock outrage.

 

[wynnejj]

Oh brother.

TFP seems to be deliberately courting controversy. This is at least the third liberal bastion which they have taken their protest. CalCatholic shouldn’t be giving them space to spin their mock outrage.

Dale_M,

I’m surprised at your reaction. Liberal universities beg for all viewpoints, even the narrow minded. To have it degenerate into burning fliers & flinging obscenities goes beyond the normal tolerance for viewpoints that is the hallmark of a liberal university into the Orwellian.

 

[Dale_M]

I’m surprised at your reaction. Liberal universities beg for all viewpoints, even the narrow minded. To have it degenerate into burning fliers & flinging obscenities goes beyond the normal tolerance for viewpoints that is the hallmark of a liberal university into the Orwellian.

Berkeley prides itself too much as being ultra-progressive. I’ve certainly seen oppressive liberal conduct in other venues, and the reaction to this event falls into that category…

My point is that TFP knew exactly that this would be the reaction. And they deliberately wanted to provoke it as a means to get publicity for themselves.

And c’mon, their write-up is really over the top, as evidenced by the quote I used in my first post.

 

[wynnejj]

Berkeley prides itself too much as being ultra-progressive. I’ve certainly seen oppressive liberal conduct in other venues, and the reaction to this event falls into that category…

My point is that TFP knew exactly that this would be the reaction. And they deliberately wanted to provoke it as a means to get publicity for themselves.

And c’mon, their write-up is really over the top, as evidenced by the quote I used in my first post.

Despite the fact that TFP knew this might be the reaction by some folks at Berkeley, should they make Berkeley an exception to the universities that they deliver their message? I am sure that their message was not intended for the homosexual activists but, rather for the other students not devoted to their cause.

In my first post on this thread, I talked about when homosexual & feminist activism came to University of Rochester. Their viewpoints, although foreign to me, were not to be censored but, their militant actions should be, IMO. Ideas, ideologies and viewpoints are always welcome, but like this forum there is a requisite amount of decorum to be observed.

 

[Annn]

Despite the fact that TFP knew this might be the reaction by some folks at Berkeley, should they make Berkeley an exception to the universities that they deliver their message? I am sure that their message was not intended for the homosexual activists but, rather for the other students not devoted to their cause.

In my first post on this thread, I talked about when homosexual & feminist activism came to University of Rochester. Their viewpoints, although foreign to me, were not to be censored but, their militant actions should be, IMO. Ideas, ideologies and viewpoints are always welcome, but like this forum there is a requisite amount of decorum to be observed.

Not that I’d engage in anything as rude as this, but as a college student at a pretty liberal institution, I know that these people would just not be treated with any tolerance, because their views go against those of the community. It would be like a gay activist handing out pamphlets after Sunday Mass.

 

[wynnejj]

Not that I’d engage in anything as rude as this, but as a college student at a pretty liberal institution, I know that these people would just not be treated with any tolerance, because their views go against those of the community. It would be like a gay activist handing out pamphlets after Sunday Mass.

Then you are not talking about a liberal institution, but a close-minded institution, in your example. On the other hand, the Catholic religion is somewhat close-minded in that its teaching are strict & whose path to heaven is the straight & narrow. It is not a liberal institution and, yes, it would not be appreciated at Sunday Mass. In my college days, gay & feminist movements were not mainstream and generally went against the ordinary views of the community. Their viewpoints were accepted as free speech. Unfortunately, the more militant aspects were improperly accepted as well, as it is today.

 

[Annn]

I would not call my college community “militant” at all. Militancy is something I avoided altogether in choosing a school It has its values and will listen to yours but will also kindly inform you of its values. Quaker heritage has something to do with that.

 

[wynnejj]

Not that I’d engage in anything as rude (that is, militant action?) as this, but as a college student at a pretty liberal institution, I know that these people (people not tolerated for their free expression of ideas) would just not be treated with any tolerance, because their views go against those of the community (more correctly, sub-culture of the community). It would be like a gay activist handing out pamphlets after Sunday Mass.

You equate “community” with just a subset of the community. The militant action admittedly is not sponsored by the liberal institution in your example, but if it condoned the action against free expression of ideas, then it is not a liberal institution. We could go round & round about this, but the title of this thread is borne out by your position that implies gays equals community, free speech not tolerated from non-gay sympathizers. Hence, the thread title is correct. QED.

 

[Annn]

You equate “community” with just a subset of the community. The militant action admittedly is not sponsored by the liberal institution in your example, but if it condoned the action against free expression of ideas, then it is not a liberal institution. We could go round & round about this, but the title of this thread is borne out by your position that implies gays equals community, free speech not tolerated from non-gay sympathizers. Hence, the thread title is correct. QED.

How many times on this board have I seen people bashing the idea of “tolerance”? One should not have to tolerate something that goes against their values. So you don’t have to tolerate a gay man’s rant about how his lifestyle should be respected, and he doesn’t have to tolerate your rant about how he’s in a state of mortal sin. It works both ways.

Tolerance is not unconditional.

 

[wynnejj]

You miss the point. One should tolerate the gay person’s rant - meaning words. One should not tolerate anyone’s militant actions, such as grabbing a box of 1,200 flyers and putting them in the trash can & burning them, causing the fire company to have to come to the scene. One should tolerate the TFP’s rant as well. The “rant” part is just free speech, the “militant” part is grabbing property & burning it. The only “bashing” in this example is the “militant” part. The rest was all fair play and in line with the ideals of a liberal institution with fair exchange of ideas.

 

[wynnejj]

Oh brother.

TFP seems to be deliberately courting controversy. This is at least the third liberal bastion which they have taken their protest. CalCatholic shouldn’t be giving them space to spin their mock outrage.

I just viewed the video of the incident on tfp.org . I agree with your assessment that their spin was a little over the top, with the exception of the grabbing 1,200 flyers (if you can trust their account) & burning them in a trash can causing the fire company to be called by, I assume, campus security, since they were 1st on the scene. You can’t attribute the actions of individuals with the actions of the opposition group at large.

What I saw was more like my old days in 1973. Most people just walked by, some took the flyers, most went on to their classes. The gay activists came and were not hostile. The weird Wiccan fire burning one or two flyers that they were given in mock protest as reported, was “over the top” spin by TFP, IMO. Actually, my impression was that it was a good confrontation of differing opinions in an air of free expression consistent with a good liberal institution. If there was “spitting”, it was not captured on video. If there were wild, crazy yelling or jeers, it was not captured on video. Frankly, it looked like a good time, so I think TFP’s video & write-up are inconsistent.

"They preach tolerance but give none" is only true for an individual or two, IMO.

 

[Joejohn39]

Frankly, left-wing angry antagonism of this sort only hurts their cause, as do political force tactics. It changes the hearts and minds of no one and only causes resentment.

 

[rpp]

Catholic are not called upon to be “tolerant”. In fact, Catholics are forbidden to be “tolerant”. Instead, Catholics are called up by God to do something far more difficult. We are called to love our enemies, not to merely tolerate them. This love leads us to try to correct their errors and help keep them from sin, especially grave sin.

Tolerance is purely a secular concept that is incompatible with Christianity. It is utterly devoid of love.