“Welcome back to non-practicing Catholics!”

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In another post I suggested that true Social Justice is welcoming all. I came across a Blog that talked about a ministry to Non-practicing Catholics. I then discovered “Lapsed Catholic” as well. There is lots out there. What do Priests do with this issue? What do parishes do with this issue? Then of course I turned Protestant for a second and asked WWJD?
Should priests be firmer with non-practising Catholics?
Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday. In my opinion, this occasion brings more non-practicing/non-believing Catholics to Church second to Our Lady of Guadalupe
“Welcome back to non-practicing Catholics!”
I run across threads, posts, by people that are not happy, former Catholics…yet they are here…are we tolerant? Are we loving? are we just as confused as everyone else with what to do?

Is this not a Social Justice Issue too?

Share thoughts.🙂
 
In another post I suggested that true Social Justice is welcoming all. I came across a Blog that talked about a ministry to Non-practicing Catholics. I then discovered “Lapsed Catholic” as well. There is lots out there. What do Priests do with this issue? What do parishes do with this issue? Then of course I turned Protestant for a second and asked WWJD?

I run across threads, posts, by people that are not happy, former Catholics…yet they are here…are we tolerant? Are we loving? are we just as confused as everyone else with what to do?

Is this not a Social Justice Issue too?

Share thoughts.🙂
Hi Coptic, I can only speak from my experience. I don’t see much tolerance. But I do think you all believe you are being loving. I know though from my experience, priests and internet forum members getting firmer definitely does not work. If the goal is not a smaller Church, I would have to suggest the hardline be abandoned. Unfortunately part of the problem for me is I don’t see the Church going in such a direction. I see Her becoming less tolerant worldwide with those of a conservative mindset holding the reins. From what I understand JP2 placed many conservatives in high positions which could influence the direction of the Church for yrs to come. I hear younger priests coming up are much more conservative than their older counterparts were. I was baptized and confirmed in your church and “firm” and “put downs”, or telling me I can not use the word Catholic to describe myself, and judgment, only caused me to be driven further away. Another thing I’ve noticed that seems a favorite thing for faithful Catholics here to do, is to accuse less faithful Catholics of not understanding or being improperly catechized. I don’t think it’s that simple. Any religion takes faith. I also sometimes see too much that comes across at least to me, as “I am greater or holier” than you. I don’t always see the humility Christ talked about when the disciples were talking about the greatest and He told them to be like children. Honestly though to be fair I don’t think those who consider themselves faithful and practicing even sometimes realize they can come across in that way.

And then here on this particular internet forum, CAF, in its World News subforum, unless you vote for the conservative political party most espoused there, you can be made to feel you’re not welcome too. And I always have found that odd because when I read the USCCB intro to their citizenship guide, almost right away they say they are not giving direction on how to vote.

It may be too late for me and I may be beyond “coming back” due to my experiences and the fact I can not be welcome back as I am. In good conscience I can not subscribe to everything it takes to apparently be considered a practicing Catholic in the 21st century or to be welcomed.

In any case, I think this is nice idea to try discourse. I have my doubts it’s going to go as charitably as you might hope. Both sides are going to have to be charitable. I pray my tone was. But here’s hoping though and God bless you and peace to everyone here.
 
What specifically are you asking?
Hi Rence, I think at least partly Coptic has in mind a charitable dialogue between faithful and less than fully faithful Catholics. Maybe getting ideas why some are less faithful and what could be done to make them feel welcome and for them to have a greater desire to “come home” as he calls it. I think it’s a nice idea at least in theory. I applaud him for giving the effort. Of course it’s early. 😉 Hey it’s been a long time. Hope all is well with you and yours my friend.
 
In another post I suggested that true Social Justice is welcoming all. I came across a Blog that talked about a ministry to Non-practicing Catholics. I then discovered “Lapsed Catholic” as well. There is lots out there. What do Priests do with this issue? What do parishes do with this issue?
What priests and parishes do is something I covered quite some time ago on a particular thread on CAF. 🙂 It tended to be ignored by those who merely wanted to complain about the Church, and protest that they “couldn’t fit in.” And that was the kind of person I was for awhile, myself. Constant with the bellyaching, convincing myself more and more that “I didn’t belong,” merely by repeatedly saying it, and not by examining why I assumed I “didn’t belong,” and who exactly was at fault for my sense of “not belonging.”

I figured out it was Yours Truly. It was a process. Not an instantaneous reversion. I began to “visit,” literally, a former parish in which it had previously been easy for me to pray, given their long hours open. (Always a requirement for me in seeking out a parish. I have little use for parishes open only barely for Mass, etc.) During this re-entry phase I would wander in now and then, sometimes just sit in church (guiltily 😊), sometimes act “above it all” and bored, and pick up a bulletin now and then. One day the bulletin featured a Coming Home series (once/week), and I started coming to those. It turned out those were really discernment opportunities, to get folks reacquainted with the essentials of the faith (vs. the non-essentials). Many of the people in the group had a poor catechetical background. (I had had a good one.) Some of the reasons they had left were, by their own indirect admission, a result of poor catechesis. (You’ll notice that I now harp on catechesis a lot, on this forum. 😊)

Once I figured out that I might have no serious conflicts with the faith (and couldn’t use that excuse any longer ;)), I began to make more frequent visits. One day I was talking to the priest who had chaired the Coming Home series. This was and is still a very “available” priest, very non-threatening. However, note that no one person, including him, could by themselves lead me back with conviction. I had to own that. There could have been no more welcoming and non-judgmental person than this priest. He just speaks “surrender” in his body language. The priest was only one instrument and one step. But because the conversation with him that day took so long, it cut down my prayer-visit time, and I found that time overflowing into Mass. While I was praying in the pews, calculating like a coward my pre-Mass exit, he approached me and asked if I were staying for Mass. (I think he wanted someone to bring The Gifts.) As if the Holy Spirit were speaking, I replied instantaneously, “I could be persuaded to.” What I at the same time realized I was saying was, “I want to be persuaded to.” He just smiled. I stayed, and that was the beginning of my journey back.

It’s obvious that it was the Holy Spirit at work. It only worked because I cooperated. The welcoming programs were already there in that parish. The welcoming priest was already there. It didn’t require, nor had I any right to expect, someone tapping me on the shoulder, calling me on the phone, or visiting me in my home, and asking me why I had been away. I had to make the first move – or – the first response to the Holy Spirit. I had been the one operating on resistance; I was the one with the agenda that others had to fit into me, not vice-versa. 🤷

I have generally found, listening to other people’s stories of coming back, that my own experience is more similar to that of others than dissimilar, even though I’m sure there is a range and many which deviate from mine. 🙂
 
I also need to stress that I had things in reverse order before I returned. I assumed that rational resolution of my doubts was the key to commitment and fidelity. Wrong. It was the opposite. It was the grace of commitment which enabled me to overcome my doubts. That was also true for the other participants in the Coming Home program.
 
Hi Coptic, I can only speak from my experience. I don’t see much tolerance. But I do think you all believe you are being loving. I know though from my experience, priests and internet forum members getting firmer definitely does not work. If the goal is not a smaller Church, I would have to suggest the hardline be abandoned. Unfortunately part of the problem for me is I don’t see the Church going in such a direction. I see Her becoming less tolerant worldwide with those of a conservative mindset holding the reins. From what I understand JP2 placed many conservatives in high positions which could influence the direction of the Church for yrs to come. I hear younger priests coming up are much more conservative than their older counterparts were. I was baptized and confirmed in your church and “firm” and “put downs”, or telling me I can not use the word Catholic to describe myself, and judgment, only caused me to be driven further away. Another thing I’ve noticed that seems a favorite thing for faithful Catholics here to do, is to accuse less faithful Catholics of not understanding or being improperly catechized. I don’t think it’s that simple. Any religion takes faith. I also sometimes see too much that comes across at least to me, as “I am greater or holier” than you. I don’t always see the humility Christ talked about when the disciples were talking about the greatest and He told them to be like children. Honestly though to be fair I don’t think those who consider themselves faithful and practicing even sometimes realize they can come across in that way.

And then here on this particular internet forum, CAF, in its World News subforum, unless you vote for the conservative political party most espoused there, you can be made to feel you’re not welcome too. And I always have found that odd because when I read the USCCB intro to their citizenship guide, almost right away they say they are not giving direction on how to vote.

It may be too late for me and I may be beyond “coming back” due to my experiences and the fact I can not be welcome back as I am. In good conscience I can not subscribe to everything it takes to apparently be considered a practicing Catholic in the 21st century or to be welcomed.

In any case, I think this is nice idea to try discourse. I have my doubts it’s going to go as charitably as you might hope. Both sides are going to have to be charitable. I pray my tone was. But here’s hoping though and God bless you and peace to everyone here.
Matt,

For openers tell me your thoughts on 7 sacraments.
 
What priests and parishes do is something I covered quite some time ago on a particular thread on CAF. 🙂 It tended to be ignored by those who merely wanted to complain about the Church, and protest that they “couldn’t fit in.” And that was the kind of person I was for awhile, myself. Constant with the bellyaching, convincing myself more and more that “I didn’t belong,” merely by repeatedly saying it, and not by examining why I assumed I “didn’t belong,” and who exactly was at fault for my sense of “not belonging.”

I figured out it was Yours Truly. It was a process. Not an instantaneous reversion. I began to “visit,” literally, a former parish in which it had previously been easy for me to pray, given their long hours open. (Always a requirement for me in seeking out a parish. I have little use for parishes open only barely for Mass, etc.) During this re-entry phase I would wander in now and then, sometimes just sit in church (guiltily 😊), sometimes act “above it all” and bored, and pick up a bulletin now and then. One day the bulletin featured a Coming Home series (once/week), and I started coming to those. It turned out those were really discernment opportunities, to get folks reacquainted with the essentials of the faith (vs. the non-essentials). Many of the people in the group had a poor catechetical background. (I had had a good one.) Some of the reasons they had left were, by their own indirect admission, a result of poor catechesis. (You’ll notice that I now harp on catechesis a lot, on this forum. 😊)

Once I figured out that I might have no serious conflicts with the faith (and couldn’t use that excuse any longer ;)), I began to make more frequent visits. One day I was talking to the priest who had chaired the Coming Home series. This was and is still a very “available” priest, very non-threatening. However, note that no one person, including him, could by themselves lead me back with conviction. I had to own that. There could have been no more welcoming and non-judgmental person than this priest. He just speaks “surrender” in his body language. The priest was only one instrument and one step. But because the conversation with him that day took so long, it cut down my prayer-visit time, and I found that time overflowing into Mass. While I was praying in the pews, calculating like a coward my pre-Mass exit, he approached me and asked if I were staying for Mass. (I think he wanted someone to bring The Gifts.) As if the Holy Spirit were speaking, I replied instantaneously, “I could be persuaded to.” What I at the same time realized I was saying was, “I want to be persuaded to.” He just smiled. I stayed, and that was the beginning of my journey back.

It’s obvious that it was the Holy Spirit at work. It only worked because I cooperated. The welcoming programs were already there in that parish. The welcoming priest was already there. It didn’t require, nor had I any right to expect, someone tapping me on the shoulder, calling me on the phone, or visiting me in my home, and asking me why I had been away. I had to make the first move – or – the first response to the Holy Spirit. I had been the one operating on resistance; I was the one with the agenda that others had to fit into me, not vice-versa. 🤷

I have generally found, listening to other people’s stories of coming back, that my own experience is more similar to that of others than dissimilar, even though I’m sure there is a range and many which deviate from mine. 🙂
Liz,

It is amazing that changing the world starts with that first person, me.🙂
 
Matt,

For openers tell me your thoughts on 7 sacraments.
I don’t have a huge problem with 7 Coptic. I’m fine with Baptism. Infant is fine with me. Households were baptized in the Bible. I’m going to assume households included children. Others were baptized at an older age of reason, immersed in the river. I do have a huge problem Coptic when someone is baptized and confirmed a Catholic, a bishop tells me such a person is Catholic, and then I read for instance on an internet forum people including even a priest saying you can not be a Catholic because of this or that. Huge huge turnoff to me Coptic.

Sacrament of Reconciliation/Penance? I can read about the power to forgive or retain. So I understand Catholic thought. But I also understand non Catholics who might say this is not the only manner in which to be forgiven. The Apostle James taught to confess to one another and I’m not going to tell someone who believes they can get on their knees and confess directly to God that God can not forgive them if they do not confess to a priest. Jesus Himself said to go to your room and close the door and pray in private the Lord’s Prayer… Forgive us our trespasses… and the Father He said knows what you need and you will receive your reward. In this case the reward would be a forgiveness of trespasses. I’m not making this up Coptic. It’s as plain and clear to see in Matthew 6. Some things don’t need interpreted to me. They are as clear as can be. Basically I’m fine confessing to a priest, to one another or to God directly.

I’m fine with Communion/Holy Eucharist. I understand Catholic theology on it and why Catholics believe in the literal body and blood physical presence and why it is not open. But I also understand Protestant theology on it and reasons why it should be open. That’s the thing with me Coptic. As you’re probably seeing by now I can understand many positions. I believe much of it comes down to simply faith and belief in the end.

Already mentioned confirmation in the first paragraph.

Matrimony? I’m fine with people in love marrying. To me personally I don’t care where. God is everywhere. But if Catholics want to require all their rules in regard to marriage, that’s fine.

Holy Orders? I’m ok with clergy being ordained.

Finally Anointing of the Sick. Used to be one of my favorite Sacraments. It is so clear to me that the Apostle James spoke of it. The Church to pray over and anoint with oil the sick and as James said the sins they have committed will be forgiven. It’s the only way I will ever be welcome by the Catholic Church if I choose to receive it on my deathbed.

So now are you ready to pull the welcome mat out from under me? That will not have taken long. Still page one of the thread I think and we haven’t even gotten to other things that make me unwelcomed. 👍
 
I don’t have a huge problem with 7 Coptic. I’m fine with Baptism. Infant is fine with me. Households were baptized in the Bible. I’m going to assume households included children. Others were baptized at an older age of reason, immersed in the river. I do have a huge problem Coptic when someone is baptized and confirmed a Catholic, a bishop tells me such a person is Catholic, and then I read for instance on an internet forum people including even a priest saying you can not be a Catholic because of this or that. Huge huge turnoff to me Coptic.

Sacrament of Reconciliation/Penance? I can read about the power to forgive or retain. So I understand Catholic thought. But I also understand non Catholics who might say this is not the only manner in which to be forgiven. The Apostle James taught to confess to one another and I’m not going to tell someone who believes they can get on their knees and confess directly to God that God can not forgive them if they do not confess to a priest. Jesus Himself said to go to your room and close the door and pray in private the Lord’s Prayer… Forgive us our trespasses… and the Father He said knows what you need and you will receive your reward. In this case the reward would be a forgiveness of trespasses. I’m not making this up Coptic. It’s as plain and clear to see in Matthew 6. Some things don’t need interpreted to me. They are as clear as can be. Basically I’m fine confessing to a priest, to one another or to God directly.

I’m fine with Communion/Holy Eucharist. I understand Catholic theology on it and why Catholics believe in the literal body and blood physical presence and why it is not open. But I also understand Protestant theology on it and reasons why it should be open. That’s the thing with me Coptic. As you’re probably seeing by now I can understand many positions. I believe much of it comes down to simply faith and belief in the end.

Already mentioned confirmation in the first paragraph.

Matrimony? I’m fine with people in love marrying. To me personally I don’t care where. God is everywhere. But if Catholics want to require all their rules in regard to marriage, that’s fine.

Holy Orders? I’m ok with clergy being ordained.

Finally Anointing of the Sick. Used to be one of my favorite Sacraments. It is so clear to me that the Apostle James spoke of it. The Church to pray over and anoint with oil the sick and as James said the sins they have committed will be forgiven. It’s the only way I will ever be welcome by the Catholic Church if I choose to receive it on my deathbed.

So now are you ready to pull the welcome mat out from under me? That will not have taken long. Still page one of the thread I think and we haven’t even gotten to other things that make me unwelcomed. 👍
Matt,

Did you know that the biggest issue in life with respect to problems and resolution is Communication. Are you aware that forgiveness starts with me. I believe others may have said that. Sounds like you have a framework and some discontent.

I will be honest with you. I suppose you could think or believe or even imagine that I and others like me are constrained by a straight jacket and interestingly I had a conversation with a person that has searched every religion including Catholicism. She was not kind to Catholiscism. I understood. You know I said…I like the boundaries, I like the rules, they keep me sane and actually allow me to translate that to my children like my father did for me.

What works for you, works for you…it is confining, it is restraining, it is what it is…and you are still a child of God…don’t forget that.🙂
 
Matt,

Did you know that the biggest issue in life with respect to problems and resolution is Communication. Are you aware that forgiveness starts with me. I believe others may have said that. Sounds like you have a framework and some discontent.

I will be honest with you. I suppose you could think or believe or even imagine that I and others like me are constrained by a straight jacket and interestingly I had a conversation with a person that has searched every religion including Catholicism. She was not kind to Catholiscism. I understood. You know I said…I like the boundaries, I like the rules, they keep me sane and actually allow me to translate that to my children like my father did for me.

What works for you, works for you…it is confining, it is restraining, it is what it is…and you are still a child of God…don’t forget that.🙂
Yes Coptic, communication can be a problem. But when a priest, apologist, internet forum member, anyone else, says someone baptized in the Catholic Church is not a Catholic or can not use the term, Catholic, in any fashion to describe themselves, lets say because they are pro choice in regard to civil secular law because that’s just one I hear a lot, they are miscommunicating Catholic teaching themselves. I surmise perhaps what they really mean is such Catholics are not practicing Catholics in good standing and are not welcome as they are. If so then they should just say it and everyone can move on and not bother with a welcome mat. 🙂

You mentioned your father. My mother attended Mass every wk. Partook in the Eucharist. Held postions in her parish. I can’t say she subscribed to every Catholic teaching though. And yet her Jesuit priest and before him priests who were not Jesuits nor anyone else made a fuss. No one was going around telling her she was not a Catholic. Or that she was not a practicing Catholic. Or she was unwelcome and could not receive. The Jesuit actually asked her to serve the Eucharist to others. Bottom line she always felt welcome as part of her parish.

I myself have been around for decades. Where I live now there are no Jesuits in my entire state nor liberal parishes in my area at least from what I’ve been able to uncover. At the last Mass I attended though at a parish I had only attended a few times prior, Father did lead us in prayer intentions for our government leaders to help the poor which I sorta liked. Well to be honest tears welled up in my eyes when I heard it since I am a liberal and big on a government role to help the poor alongside what faith communities and individuals can do. I don’t think I heard anythng about abortion that day for a change. Then I came back here.

The amount of emphasis I see placed on this one issue in the Church today is greater than I’ve seen at anytime. Pre or post 1973. It wasn’t until 2000 when I ever heard a priest during a homily say we had to vote for the anti choice candidate. It wasn’t until a yr or 2 ago that I ever heard a priest in his homily say his answer to the poor is to get a job. The emphasis today concerns me Coptic.

I have seen the Church change since the conservatives have taken hold of more of the reins. I know conservatives might say it is a return to hardline orthodoxy and the Church was too lenient prior to this wave. But then I have to wonder during which time periods the Church in my lifetime is correct and when She is incorrect. My dear mother God rest her soul is not here to hear talk of purifying the Church even if it makes Christ’s Church smaller. I am.

Just last night I was reading a forum thread about whether CITH offends God. There often are threads about what is appropriate attire. I know you wear shorts and sandals and I think that’s great. I see nothing wrong with it. I have too when I’ve attended Mass. Not up north but where I am now yes. Up north I wore jeans. At the parish I spoke of last attending, a lot of people were in shorts. But Coptic, I don’t see why those types of things even bat an eye with any Catholics. I don’t see why anyone would even begin to think CITH could offend God because I think He would have had a Pope before the current one stop it if the Church was offending Him. Same with attire.

Maybe I could explore more the most recent parish I attended because it was the most welcome I’ve felt in a Catholic Church in awhile out of 4 parishes I’ve attended in recent yrs. I didn’t feel like people were staring at my attire or didn’t want to offer me the sign of peace when I extended a hand. Actually my first time there for a weekday Mass some fellow came up the aisle to extend his hand in peace. That was a change from previous experiences at other parishes when people didn’t even turn around to offer me the sign of peace or from the time when I turned to a few people and they looked at me like I was out of Mars or somewhere to extend my hand. But 1 out of 4 is not a great stat and just reminds me 3 out of 4 may better represent today’s Church on the whole. And even if the 1 were to be a better fit now, a change in the pastor could always make it 4 of 4.

Anyway yes Coptic I can forgive laity and priests for instance for saying a Catholic can not be a Catholic if they are pro choice. Because I know who the Catholic Church considers a Catholic. I can forgive the priest who said of the poor in the midst of the Great Recession to just get a job. But I can’t forget. They are part of my experience forever engrained in my mind now. Things like this hurt for a time being. The hurt is gone. But you are correct. The hurt has been replaced by discontent.

I think it’s just like you said. You like the boundaries. I just may be more open than you and today’s Catholic Church. It wasn’t as much a problem until the boundaries have been made tighter by the conservatives. But they restrain me. I am driven further away for air so to speak. And people like me need to breathe, Coptic, or we will suffocate.

But thankfully yes God loves us all. I’m so glad we were able to have this dialogue which I pray with all my heart I communicated in with not too negative a tone. God bless you always along your journey. Peace be with you my friend in Christ.
 
Yes Coptic, communication can be a problem. But when a priest, apologist, internet forum member, anyone else, says someone baptized in the Catholic Church is not a Catholic or can not use the term, Catholic, in any fashion to describe themselves, lets say because they are pro choice in regard to civil secular law because that’s just one I hear a lot, they are miscommunicating Catholic teaching themselves. I surmise perhaps what they really mean is such Catholics are not practicing Catholics in good standing and are not welcome as they are. If so then they should just say it and everyone can move on and not bother with a welcome mat. 🙂

You mentioned your father. My mother attended Mass every wk. Partook in the Eucharist. Held postions in her parish. I can’t say she subscribed to every Catholic teaching though. And yet her Jesuit priest and before him priests who were not Jesuits nor anyone else made a fuss. No one was going around telling her she was not a Catholic. Or that she was not a practicing Catholic. Or she was unwelcome and could not receive. The Jesuit actually asked her to serve the Eucharist to others. Bottom line she always felt welcome as part of her parish.

I myself have been around for decades. Where I live now there are no Jesuits in my entire state nor liberal parishes in my area at least from what I’ve been able to uncover. At the last Mass I attended though at a parish I had only attended a few times prior, Father did lead us in prayer intentions for our government leaders to help the poor which I sorta liked. Well to be honest tears welled up in my eyes when I heard it since I am a liberal and big on a government role to help the poor alongside what faith communities and individuals can do. I don’t think I heard anythng about abortion that day for a change. Then I came back here.

The amount of emphasis I see placed on this one issue in the Church today is greater than I’ve seen at anytime. Pre or post 1973. It wasn’t until 2000 when I ever heard a priest during a homily say we had to vote for the anti choice candidate. It wasn’t until a yr or 2 ago that I ever heard a priest in his homily say his answer to the poor is to get a job. The emphasis today concerns me Coptic.

I have seen the Church change since the conservatives have taken hold of more of the reins. I know conservatives might say it is a return to hardline orthodoxy and the Church was too lenient prior to this wave. But then I have to wonder during which time periods the Church in my lifetime is correct and when She is incorrect. My dear mother God rest her soul is not here to hear talk of purifying the Church even if it makes Christ’s Church smaller. I am.

Just last night I was reading a forum thread about whether CITH offends God. There often are threads about what is appropriate attire. I know you wear shorts and sandals and I think that’s great. I see nothing wrong with it. I have too when I’ve attended Mass. Not up north but where I am now yes. Up north I wore jeans. At the parish I spoke of last attending, a lot of people were in shorts. But Coptic, I don’t see why those types of things even bat an eye with any Catholics. I don’t see why anyone would even begin to think CITH could offend God because I think He would have had a Pope before the current one stop it if the Church was offending Him. Same with attire.

Maybe I could explore more the most recent parish I attended because it was the most welcome I’ve felt in a Catholic Church in awhile out of 4 parishes I’ve attended in recent yrs. I didn’t feel like people were staring at my attire or didn’t want to offer me the sign of peace when I extended a hand. Actually my first time there for a weekday Mass some fellow came up the aisle to extend his hand in peace. That was a change from previous experiences at other parishes when people didn’t even turn around to offer me the sign of peace or from the time when I turned to a few people and they looked at me like I was out of Mars or somewhere to extend my hand. But 1 out of 4 is not a great stat and just reminds me 3 out of 4 may better represent today’s Church on the whole. And even if the 1 were to be a better fit now, a change in the pastor could always make it 4 of 4.

Anyway yes Coptic I can forgive laity and priests for instance for saying a Catholic can not be a Catholic if they are pro choice. Because I know who the Catholic Church considers a Catholic. I can forgive the priest who said of the poor in the midst of the Great Recession to just get a job. But I can’t forget. They are part of my experience forever engrained in my mind now. Things like this hurt for a time being. The hurt is gone. But you are correct. The hurt has been replaced by discontent.

I think it’s just like you said. You like the boundaries. I just may be more open than you and today’s Catholic Church. It wasn’t as much a problem until the boundaries have been made tighter by the conservatives. But they restrain me. I am driven further away for air so to speak. And people like me need to breathe, Coptic, or we will suffocate.

But thankfully yes God loves us all. I’m so glad we were able to have this dialogue which I pray with all my heart I communicated in with not too negative a tone. God bless you always along your journey. Peace be with you my friend in Christ.
Matt,

You have lots of things to say. Sometimes just saying them is a good thing. You can’t change what was. You can learn from it. Today is the only day you have. Your journey isn’t over and the best you can do is keep putting one foot in front of the other. Sometimes people in the Church say things that humanity lends itself to without the grace of God. Who claims to be filled with sanctifying grace 100% of the time anywhere in the Church or on this thread. We, as I said you can learn from the past…and with that…you know…

I am the least of the Apostles,
I am the least of the Saints,
I am the greatest of sinners…

that was not me who said that,

It was said in the beginning, the middle and then the end of the journey

and if in our journey we get to the point where we recognize and accept our greatnes…Nope our humility, then perhaps we can all have Hope and with Hope, Faith and with all that Love/Charity

If you have not read Benedict on Saved in Hope…do so:)
 
Matt,You have lots of things to say. Sometimes just saying them is a good thing
Yes thanks for having listened Coptic. You’d be surprised how quiet I really am. And outside of politics and religion probably how conservative I personally am too. 🙂 Take care and peace.
 
Yes thanks for having listened Coptic. You’d be surprised how quiet I really am. And outside of politics and religion probably how conservative I personally am too. 🙂 Take care and peace.
Matt,

What are you conservative about if I may ask?
 
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