1,000 dollars for front pew seat at Christmas Eve Mass in MN

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I may or may not be the only person on the forum who has ever attended the parish in question, but I know it to be orthodox, loving and generous. Any calls for this parish to “see the light” are out of place and judgmental, to say the least. If you don’t like how the parish raises a bit of money for the needy students of the parish school, fine. That’s your affair, but don’t go calling God’s wrath upon a truly great parish which you’ve never gone to and really know nothing about except from a slanted article in a leftest newspaper that has made it its business to try to destroy every decent institution in the state of Minnesota.
 
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CatholicCid:
Perhaps those bothered by this have taken the time to contact the Church and make a future, yearly donation of $6,000+ so they may stop doing this auction… 👍
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I thought about that already.
I don’t think that would stop them from selling front row seats. By the looks of it…greed has gotten the better part of this parish.

Even if they are a great parish in many ways they need to be corrected in this one matter. No one is beyond needing correction.
 
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Della:
If you don’t like how the parish raises a bit of money for the needy students of the parish school, fine.
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There are holy ways to raise money for needy students. Selling pews to Christmas Mass or any Mass is not holy. Selling tickets for Mass is sacreligious.
 
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contemplative:
I thought about that already.
I don’t think that would stop them from selling front row seats. By the looks of it…greed has gotten the better part of this parish.
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You couldn’t be more wrong about this. It seems you missed my post above. I know this parish–it is in a lower middle class neighborhood and minister to people who have a lot of needs. Those who are a bit better off are happy to rent out these pews for only one Mass of all the Masses, including daily Masses, that are offered throughout the year. These people aren’t filled with greed but generosity. If you had ever been there, as I have been, you would know that. Besides, it is for their bishop, a good and orthodox bishop, btw, to decide what is and isn’t allowable for them to do, not you or me.
 
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contemplative:
I thought about that already.
I don’t think that would stop them from selling front row seats. By the looks of it…greed has gotten the better part of this parish.
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I fail to see how… Maybe if the Pastor was using the money for say… New golf clubs… But helping to provide for children’s education is greedy?
 
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CatholicCid:
I fail to see how… Maybe if the Pastor was using the money for say… New golf clubs… But helping to provide for children’s education is greedy?
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Yes…Greedy in the manner in which you get money to help others…
With the weekly basket offering of $32,000 + I don’t see how it is beyond anyone to hope that someone would simply come forward with the money ($6,000) to help out. Selling pew space for Mass is simply the wrong way of doing it. The pastor is appealing to parishioners pride rather than charity. Maybe I am wrong to assume that it is the pastor’s greed but I think if I twisted the soul of someone to solicit money for even a good cause I’d be greedy. Yea…so I think you can be greedy for even ‘charitable money’.
 
Here is a McQuaid Jesuit HighSchool standard levels of giving.

The
“Bridge the Gap” giving levels are:
  • Premier Gap Gift, Knights Council member: $2,000+
  • Platinum Gap Gift, Knights Council member: $1,500;
  • Gold Gap Gift, Knights Council member: $1,000;
  • Silver Gap Gift, McQuaid Partners member: $750;
  • Bronze Gap Gift, McQuaid Associates member: $500;
  • Current Parent Annual Fund Gift: Other.
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This is bad enough but I must give them credit for not selling ticket seating to Mass.
 
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Melanie01:
Amen Br Rich. There smacks the idea of an audience…or a show … it sounds wrong to me.
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Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly (Matt. 6:1-4).
 
Talk about a tempest in a teapot! I know people who donate money to good causes in many similar ways, not because they are greedy and filled with pride, but because they are truly generous. Many of them couldn’t care less if their names are known or not. It would not surprise me to discover that some who sucessfully bid on a pew never even stepped forward to occupy it. When one talks of generosity, I do know one of the parishioners of Nativity quite well. He is retired and has enough that he could spend his winters in the warm climes, travel, etc. However most days sometimes including Saturdays, he can be found doing volunteer work at the local St. Vincent de Paul. I wish I were even half as generous. If any of you feel all that upset, why not get out an envelope a stamp and your check book and send this parish enough that they can give up raising money for their Catholic School in a way that you all find so scandalous.
 
Contemplative, I suggest you take a gander at the pastor’s comments in the bulletin, which has a linky in one of the above posts. His explanation seems pretty sound to me…

I also doubt that Archbishop Flynn is going to allow any shenanigans to go on that come up on his radar, and this certainly looks like something that would be a big blip on the Archbishop’s radar. If Archbishop Flynn hasn’t put a stop to it, then there’s nothing going wrong here.
 
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contemplative:
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly (Matt. 6:1-4).
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St. Augustine, in his explanation of St. John’s letter, expounds the passage thus: "By ‘the left hand’ is meant the intention of giving alms for worldly honor or any other temporal advantage; by ‘the right hand’ is signified the intention of bestowing alms to gain eternal life, or for the glory of God, and charity for our neighbor.

Fourth, our alms should be given with humility, so that the rich man may remember that he receives much more than he gives. On the point, St. Gregory says, " When he gives earthly goods, he would find it to avail much in taming his pride, were he to remember and carefully ponder the words of his heavenly Master: 'Make unto you friends of the mammon of iniquity, that when you shall fail, they may receive you into everlasting dwellings, those that give should doubtless remember that they offer their gifts rather to patrons than to poor."

from Live Well. Die Holy by St. Robert Bellarmine

I’d rather read and listen to Jesus and His Saints…
 
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contemplative:
Yes…Greedy in the manner in which you get money to help others…
With the weekly basket offering of $32,000 + I don’t see how it is beyond anyone to hope that someone would simply come forward with the money ($6,000) to help out. Selling pew space for Mass is simply the wrong way of doing it. The pastor is appealing to parishioners pride rather than charity. Maybe I am wrong to assume that it is the pastor’s greed but I think if I twisted the soul of someone to solicit money for even a good cause I’d be greedy. Yea…so I think you can be greedy for even ‘charitable money’.
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Might it state how much parish upkeep is? Also how much is needed to fund all the charities the parish helps with? Then school upkeep? ect…

Should they NEED to do this? Of course not, in the perfect world we wouldn’t be talking on this message board because we don’t need computers to survive… They are just material possesions that we’ve gotten to do work we could do otherwise… Elsewhere our money used on computers would go to helping others ect…

Though, some people can’t just give this out of their own hearts and such, so they auction off 6 pews for 1 Mass, which would be in use anyway… Honestly, I like the Priest’s comparision of people using coats to reserve pews…

But I still extend my offer that you call the Parish and donate $6,000 to them if they won’t auction off pews for that year… I feel like they would comply…
 
I actually checked in the GIRM about this type of situation. Under section 3 arrangement of the church, paragraph 311 It says the custom of reserving seats for private individuals is reprehensible. It does not specify any particular circumstances for this, just that the custom itself is reprehensible. So I would guess that Rome frowns on the practice…
 
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CatholicCid:
Though, some people can’t just give this out of their own hearts and such, so they auction off 6 pews for 1 Mass, which would be in use anyway… Honestly, I like the Priest’s comparision of people using coats to reserve pews…
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I can speak from the heart here. Many years ago family members of mine requested that I ‘save’ them seats. Being the person that I am…I always arrive early for Mass. I saved them seats on Easter Sunday morning. There I sat…the pressure was building…people were pouring in and seating was becoming less available and I was shamefully turning people away to find other places. Finally when elderly people were seriously eyeing my spots I broke down…I said in my head " To heck with my family members…I am not going to turn down people in need of a seat! First come first serve! Not first come and reserve for Johnny come latelys!"
So since that ONE time I never saved seats again…never…never.

Are people going to arrive early and reserve seats with coats? Yes
Are we to judge them for this?
No
Will pew reserving people change their way? Maybe…I did.
Should we expect the pastor of a parish to set the best Christ-like example to follow?
Yes
Is selling pews at any cost wrong? Yes
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Palmas85:
I actually checked in the GIRM about this type of situation. Under section 3 arrangement of the church, paragraph 311 It says the custom of reserving seats for private individuals is reprehensible. It does not specify any particular circumstances for this, just that the custom itself is reprehensible. So I would guess that Rome frowns on the practice…
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Thank you for finding this.
I agree that reserving seats for private individuals is reprehensible.
 
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CatholicCid:
But I still extend my offer that you call the Parish and donate $6,000 to them if they won’t auction off pews for that year… I feel like they would comply…
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and would you pay a prostitute on the street to stop selling his/her body?
Would that remedy anything…throwing money at the problem?
No

In a sense the pastor is prostituting the Body to Christ by selling pew space.
 
I apologize for my last post to be a little overzealous… Posted it too late at night :o

All I was suggesting was a way for you to remedy a situation that was upsetting you, but if you assume it won’t solve anything, well then…
As the saying goes, if the food is bitter, go talk to the cook, don’t sit there and go bitter with it.

Is this situation the best option? No, not at all.
Is it the worst? No, not at all.

In the end, the people paying for these seats are members of the parish who would be taking up space anyway, so they are in no way hindering anyone from taking part in the Mass.

If you need to be sitting in a pew to be in actual attendence at Mass, then I have been to a less lot Masses then I thought.

If you need to be in an actual pew or Church seating to recieve the Sacraments and the Graces of God, then I’ve gone to Confession less, recieved Our Lord less, and many other things.

Is the Church prostituting itself then?
Well, in more ways you realize then…
We “accept donations” at Mass…
We “accept donations” to light a votive candle…
We “accept donations” to have a Mass said…
We customarily tip a Priest for saying a wedding or a funeral…
ect…
We take money to perform services… Granted, the Money is used for the upkeep of the Church and charities… But it’s still money.

To even call the Church a whore for one action seems a little out there…

As Della stated:
I know it to be orthodox, loving and generous. Any calls for this parish to “see the light” are out of place and judgmental, to say the least. If you don’t like how the parish raises a bit of money for the needy students of the parish school, fine. That’s your affair, but don’t go calling God’s wrath upon a truly great parish which you’ve never gone to and really know nothing about except from a slanted article in a leftest newspaper that has made it its business to try to destroy every decent institution in the state of Minnesota.
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Anyway, have a good day 👍 … I smell eggs frying 😛
 
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CatholicCid:
Is the Church prostituting itself then?
Well, in more ways you realize then…
We “accept donations” at Mass…
We “accept donations” to light a votive candle…
We “accept donations” to have a Mass said…
We customarily tip a Priest for saying a wedding or a funeral…
ect…
We take money to perform services… Granted, the Money is used for the upkeep of the Church and charities… But it’s still money.

To even call the Church a whore for one action seems a little out there…
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I am not calling the Church a whore…I did not. I said the act of selling pews for Mass at this one particular parish is like prostituting the Body of Christ (The Church).

I and many others have never heard of such craziness.

Furthermore…accepting donations is a far, far cry from selling front row pews to Mass.

Get it?
Donating and selling are two very different things.
 
Given that the Church has this situation specifically addressed in the GIRM, I would guess that not only does it happen but is probably a lot more common than we realize. I doubt they were addressing people saving seats for family members, but probably exactly the situation and similar ones as raised in this thread.
 
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contemplative:
I am not calling the Church a whore…I did not. I said the act of selling pews for Mass at this one particular parish is like prostituting the Body of Christ (The Church).

I and many others have never heard of such craziness.

Furthermore…accepting donations is a far, far cry from selling front row pews to Mass.

Get it?
Donating and selling are two very different things.
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Sorry, I thought you meant the Church was being whored out by it, so it being a whore… Misunderstanding…

And I agree, it is crazy… But I don’t think it’s as horrible as you make it sound, and it seems you are condemning the parish and priest over it.

My own parish has an auction where we auction off donated items to raise funds for the Local high school and to help pay tution costs for those who might not be able to afford it… Is it the best way of doing this? Not at all, but please don’t condemn them if your not willing to offer a solution
 
Donating and selling are two very different things.
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But this is a donation not a sale. The pews are auctioned for ONE Mass a year. No one is buying a permanent seat in the church. And even if they were, it’s not unheard of or wrong.

I really have to wonder why so many people who came into the Church from Puritan backgrounds want to hang onto their puritanical ideas that have nothing to do with the Catholic understanding of what is proper and what isn’t.

The bishop has approved this practice for years. It’s not a new idea or a bad thing. You’ve got to learn to trust our Church leaders in spite of what seems right or wrong to you. That’s a part of submitting ourselves to the authority Christ gave his bishops.

All that is really being violated here is your sense of propriety, not Church law or biblical principles.
 
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