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L
liturgyluver
Guest
What a shame Berlin is a wonderful city and its inhabitants are the most charming I have ever met.
When it talks about leaving the Church, I am reminded that in Germany there is a compulsory Church tax of about 7% for all members, so perhaps the exodus could additionally be caused because for economic reasons? Just a thought.
When it talks about leaving the Church, I am reminded that in Germany there is a compulsory Church tax of about 7% for all members, so perhaps the exodus could additionally be caused because for economic reasons? Just a thought.
L
Luvtosew
Guest
I think you must be right or why in the world would this be happening.
F
fred_conty
Guest
The answer to this is not to have any members but only associates.
T
TarkanAttila
Guest
What gives the government the right to tax church membership? Is this an evil secular ploy to turn people into atheists?
A
AnAtheist
Guest
Some first-hand information from Germany:
There are treaties (concordats) between the Vatican, major protestant churches, Jehovas Witnesses, and several Jewish organizations, that grant them the right to let the tax office collect their membership fees. The one with the Vatican (“Reichskonkordat”) is btw the only treaty the 3rd Reich made with a foreign nation that is still in place.
How much you have to pay is set by your particular church, not the government. Usually it is about 8-9% of your income tax (not of your salary). The Jehovas Witnesses are the only ones of the above said list that do not exercize their right to collect taxes.
The tax office charges the churches 3.5% of the taxes as a fee.
Secularists usually want to get rid of that system, but clerics, esp. the DBK (Deutsche Bischofkonferenz = German Bishops’ Assembly), are usually against it. This taxing system is against religious freedom, as a lot of people know about your religion that shouldn’t: Your employer, your tax office, your local authorities, colleagues from HR, …
J
jerry_joseph
Guest
I think it is same like Jizya (Tax on non muslims for practicing their faith) in muslim dominated countries. If one have to pay tax for practicing his faith in religion, it should be applicable to athiests and agonostics . It is also a sort of belief.
No human beings is free of any type of beliefs. Either he will believe in christianity or any other religion or atheism or agonist or belive in his own imaginations and self created thinkings.
No human beings is free of any type of beliefs. Either he will believe in christianity or any other religion or atheism or agonist or belive in his own imaginations and self created thinkings.
C
CopticChristian
Guest
This is a report based on a survey. The survey and means by which the survey was conducted is most important. Comments about the article about the survey have little relevance to understanding. Any comments are only directed to the reporting of the survey absent any information about tht survey.
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Hesychios
Guest
In times of prosperity and peace people take a lot for granted, it is human nature. Germany is probably the one country in Europe with the most secure economy, lowest unemployment, strongest banks and the brightest outlook for the future.
It is ironic.
But I think that comparing the Germans to the French and the Britons, one would see a similar trend. The nations are less rural, and more generally cosmopolitan (especially now with the internet, cable television and electronic social networking). Church attendance keeps falling and the younger generations are less embued with the faith, less needful and more sceptical.
A
atheistgirl
Guest
Possibly the most silly post I’ve ever read on any forum, ever
You think atheists and agnostics should be taxed for NOT having a belief in a God or gods
So my thoughts should be taxed
If atheism is a belief, not collecting stamps is a hobby
Sarah x
O
oreoboy
Guest
No offense Sarah your style of posting is confrontational and is bound to start ticking Catholics off… Tread lightly so the forums can continue to be a nice place for all Non-Catholics as well.
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atheistgirl
Guest
No offense taken. Respect is a two way street. That post was confrontational to atheists. There are some people here who feel they can say anything they like, regardless of how offensive, to atheists and about atheism, from accusing atheism of being responsible for the worst genocides in history, to one catholic here telling me it’s no biggie my ancestors were starved, slaughtered, enslaved and had their homeland stolen because hey, they were savages anyhow!No offense Sarah your style of posting is confrontational and is bound to start ticking Catholics off… Tread lightly so the forums can continue to be a nice place for all Non-Catholics as well.
All with impunity apparently!
By the way, take a look at the rest of my posts and point out how many rolling laughing faces Ive used, in 10 months of being a guest here!!!
This post is an exception, because having read it, it is simply mind boggling that anyone could seriously think it is either rational or reasonable for an atheist to be taxed by the government for NOT believing in God or gods where a system is in place, approved by churches for the collection of taxes of the faithful!
If I didnt laugh I would cry!
And yet this is posited and not challenged - so I am simply voicing my view on the idea.
Notice also my comments are on the content of the post. Not the poster. As opposed to certain people here who feel, because they are catholic, and this is a catholic board, they can be as uncharitable, offensive and insulting as they wish!!!
Did you notice my little joke at the end
I was trying to keep the tone light hearted.
If it didnt work … hey ho
Sarah x
S
spiral
Guest
The article says that the study was conducted by interviewing 2,000 people (out of a total German population of 81 million) which may or may not be an adequate sample size. It doesn’t say how the participants were chosen. I found the Sinus Institute’s website, but since I can’t read German I can only read the English-language general info stuff, and can’t read the specific studies which are all in German.
The article says that 1.6% of the Catholic population is expecting to leave the church, which actually sounds very low to me. I’m not a good enough statistician to be able to tell if the number is significant or not, though.
The article says that 1.6% of the Catholic population is expecting to leave the church, which actually sounds very low to me. I’m not a good enough statistician to be able to tell if the number is significant or not, though.
T
Tenofovir
Guest
Religion fits under personal ideology/philosophy. Everyone has one. Yes it should be taxed.
Possibly the most silly post I’ve ever read on any forum, ever
Your active presence on this forum is proof that your ideological views in the religious category have an impact on your life and on the lives of others.
If you were not a stamp collector, would you frequent and argue over the meaning of stamp collecting in stamp collecting forums?
A
atheistgirl
Guest
So you think that not believing in a religion, is a religion
Seriously, never mind.
This wont end well, I can tell
I hope you have a lovely time with your family at Christmas
Sarah x
D
domandcarols
Guest
There are still Christian Germans? o.0
C
CopticChristian
Guest
Well you know how words work…take for instance the notion of non-denominational christian. This is an attempt to suggest that this is not a denomination. It is the denomination of “non”. Google that for a laugh.No offense taken. Respect is a two way street. That post was confrontational to atheists. There are some people here who feel they can say anything they like, regardless of how offensive, to atheists and about atheism, from accusing atheism of being responsible for the worst genocides in history, to one catholic here telling me it’s no biggie my ancestors were starved, slaughtered, enslaved and had their homeland stolen because hey, they were savages anyhow!
All with impunity apparently!
By the way, take a look at the rest of my posts and point out how many rolling laughing faces Ive used, in 10 months of being a guest here!!!
This post is an exception, because having read it, it is simply mind boggling that anyone could seriously think it is either rational or reasonable for an atheist to be taxed by the government for NOT believing in God or gods where a system is in place, approved by churches for the collection of taxes of the faithful!
If I didnt laugh I would cry!
And yet this is posited and not challenged - so I am simply voicing my view on the idea.
Notice also my comments are on the content of the post. Not the poster. As opposed to certain people here who feel, because they are catholic, and this is a catholic board, they can be as uncharitable, offensive and insulting as they wish!!!
Did you notice my little joke at the end
I was trying to keep the tone light hearted.
If it didnt work … hey ho
Sarah x
Suppose someone decides to say…Ok your not an athiest you are a non-thiest and for that you will pay just like the thiests.
J
John_Paul_Jones
Guest
In America it’s the opposite where there isn’t a tax that benefits any Church. But taxes do benefit the atheists etc where in public school God is outlawed.
M
MorningSong51
Guest
Where the battle in the public school system is, is in the fact that during certain times of the season some children/adults confront the position of different denominational beliefs,Christmas - Hananakh, Kwanzaa. Some of these families are not raised as Christians and yet, some teachers are left to explain, as much as they can, about the different times “high holy days” that may or may not be their own. God isn’t outlawed, children are taught about each faith but the majority of the teaching is outside of the school system and within each own denomination. If you were to include faith in the classroom- which religion would you teach? If you were to talk about God - which faith would each child learn? Now that our country has gone global in education, we have people of many religions.
Another thing - not all Christians, can afford a Christian education and have to look elsewhere for their children to have an education, that being the public school. Even though, there is financial assistance programs that can pay “part” of the bill, the program can’t pay the entire bill. I know some families who have at least eight children in the family - the mother educated her children at home but when the children reached a point of getting older, they needed to attend a High school - she couldn’t afford the tuition through the Catholic school system so the only resource she had was the public school system. That’s why CCD and the on going Religious educational system at the parishes is “so” very important. I would say that “all” these children need that strong connection to the church - and also fellowship, for the parents within the community to continue to make the family stay connected.
The problems aren’t simple - the taxes benefit many - but unfortunately, the Catholic school system has limited resources for families who need additional care for children with a severe disability - this was the case, even with Charitable institutions. Some of these charity institution that lacked funds. Father spoke about part of the problems on this issue- on the air. We are literally going to see a reduction in the church size - but by how much, I’m not sure.
W
Wads42
Guest
Hello atheistgirl. As an atheistboy aged 71, I have been on and off this Forum a few times, depending upon my current mood, which has varied between desire to communicate with Catholics, and disgust at some of the things they say and believe. With you to inspire me I have signed back on again. I was getting too involved in discussions and it was tiring and time-consuming; so I announced I was excommunicting myself. Predictably the insults were soon posted, accusing me of running away, and not answering challenges ;quite wrong I assure you,-I answerd all posts up to time of departure.So you think that not believing in a religion, is a religion
Seriously, never mind.
This wont end well, I can tell
I hope you have a lovely time with your family at Christmas
Sarah x
So I’m back again; lay on McDuff !
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