1 Cor 10:4 vs Peter as the rock? (Edited Title)

[jtmontero]

How can I best answer the objection that Peter cannot be the rock of Matthew 16:18 upon which the Church was build because 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that Christ if the rock. They say that there can be only one rock so that proves that the rock of Matthew 16:18 on which the Church is build is really referring to Jesus, not Peter.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The appeal to 1 Cor. 10:4 fails. One reason is because the appeal is made to an “either-or” argument. If Jesus is the Rock in 1 Cor. 10:4, says the skeptic, then we must reject Matthew’s statement in Matt. 16:18 as it is written. But that is only rational if it must be an “either-or” proposition. Rather Christ as the Rock through Peter harmonizes both texts. In fact, in Catholic theology, we believe Christ to be the Rock, so telling us that does nothing to Petrine theology. For example:*Saint Peter does not cease to preside over his See, and preserves an endless sharing with the Sovereign Priest. The firmness that he received from the Rock which is Christ, he himself, having become the Rock, transmits it equally to his successors too… (Pope Paul VI, Gaudete in Domino)*So when someone appeals to 1 Cor. 10:4 to tell you Christ is the Rock - you can say, that’s correct. It’s also Catholic teaching!!

 

[jtmontero]

How does one explain how it is not an "either/or proposition?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Paul also writes:

you are … members of God’s household [ie, the Church], built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. [Eph 2:19-20]

I think that sums it up quite well. The entire foundation is made of rock, but Jesus is obviously principal.

The use of “rock” in various texts is a metaphor (it’s obviously not literal - nobody was actually a physical rock). The definition of metaphor is “something used, … to represent something else.” When a metaphor is used in different contexts, it may not always refer to the exact same “something else.” For example, the metaphor of a lamb (sheep) is applied to us (“my sheep hear my voice…”) as well as Jesus (“led like a lamb to the slaughter”).

 

[PJD1987]

St. Francis de Sales, in his unbelievably remarkable apologetics book, The Catholic Controversy explains this (and every other issue one might have with the Catholic faith) extremely thoroughly.

archive.org/stream/catholiccontrove00sain#page/244/mode/2up/search/Peter+rock

This link will take you to the page where this charge is specifically and thoroughly countered, but I highly encourage you to read the entire book. It is simply amazing, St. Francis de Sales converted tens of thousands by this one work that he posted on peoples doors, because he was banned from preaching. Truly amazing feat.

God bless.

-Paul

 

[JRKH]

How does one explain how it is not an "either/or proposition?

I’m not sure how to explain this - but as I was reading the posts it occurred to me that
a) Paul Calls Jesus the Rock…Fair enough…
b) Jesus (the rock) Himself personally named Peter “Rock” and that upon this “Rock” He (Jesus - the Rock) will build His Church…

So who declared Simon - “Rock”??? Was it not “The Rock” who is Christ???

How can these things be in conflict then? - How can a person declare that there can be only one rock when it is “the Rock” Himself (Jesus) who declares the other (Simon-Peter) to be “Rock” ?

It makes no sense to try to deny one while accepting the other for it makes Jesus (the one they accept) a liar if, as they claim, there can be only one Rock…

Not sure if I’ve expressed this clearly…
But try to get them to explain how - if there can be only one rock - how the most supreme and exulted rock - Christ - can name another to be rock?

Peace
James

 

[R_C]

How can I best answer the objection that Peter cannot be the rock of Matthew 16:18 upon which the Church was build because 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that Christ if the rock. They say that there can be only one rock so that proves that the rock of Matthew 16:18 on which the Church is build is really referring to Jesus, not Peter.

Simon Peter referred to Jesus as the living rock (Peter 2:1-8)

S. Paul refers to Jesus in a similar way in 1 Cor 3,10-21

However there is no contradiction between Simon Peter and Jesus-Rock, given that all Christians are members of the body of Christ, and Christ is the head of the body, that is, of the Church (Col 1:18). St. Thomas Aquinas wrote: “head and members are a single mystical person”.

In 1984, Pope John Paul II wrote:

You are the Messiah (the Christ), the Son of the Living God"… Jesus knows that this answer that Peter has given does not come directly from him…but from the Father…The words of Simon Peter are a profession of faith…Therefore the Church is founded on the rock of the faith, that has its origin in God Himself…the Church, for which Peter’s confession has become “the rock”, is opposed to the “gates of hades”. The gates of hades try to destroy the man, to which Christ tied the charisma of this truth, and whom He called “rock”.

 

[MarcoPolo]

How does one explain how it is not an "either/or proposition?

The Biblical text says Christ is the Rock and Christ says Peter is the Rock. So if the Scriptures don’t force an either-or interpretation, then what cause is there to impose it?

Rather it’s quite significant that Christ refers to Peter by a term normally used for God––thus there is great significance to it!

p.s. Let’s not forget John 1:42 So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter).

 

[Pax]

The Biblical text says Christ is the Rock and Christ says Peter is the Rock. So if the Scriptures don’t force an either-or interpretation, then what cause is there to impose it?

Rather it’s quite significant that Christ refers to Peter by a term normally used for God––thus there is great significance to it!

p.s. Let’s not forget John 1:42 So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas (which means Peter).

Very good point for which there is really no refutation.

 

[TimothyH]

Paul talking about the rock was a reference back to the book of Exodus. Remember that Paul was a highly advanced scholar of the Hebrew Old Testament Scriptures.

1 Corinthians 10:4 is Paul’s reference back to the rock which Moses struck with his staff to get water for the people to drink while they wandered the desert from Exodus 17.

I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was the Christ. Yet God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the desert. (1 Corinthians 10:1-5)

The whole passage is about the Exodus - passing through the Red Sea and God appearing to the Isrealites in a cloud and the manna which was their spiritual food. The entire sequence is about the desert wanderings after the Isrealites were released from captivity in Egypt. The Exodus was the central event in Jewish history and the defining moment in time which made Jews special. Paul was a scholar of the Scriptures and he was talking to the Jews at Corinth about something that was intimately familiar to them - the Exodus.

But there was no water for the people to drink, and so they quarreled with Moses and said, “Give us water to drink.” Moses replied to them, “Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to a test?” Here, then, in their thirst for water, the people grumbled against Moses, saying, “Why then did you bring us up out of Egypt? To have us die of thirst with our children and our livestock?” So Moses cried out to the LORD, “What shall I do with this people? A little more and they will stone me!” The LORD answered Moses: Go on ahead of the people, and take along with you some of the elders of Israel, holding in your hand, as you go, the staff with which you struck the Nile. I will be standing there in front of you on the rock in Horeb. Strike the rock, and the water will flow from it for the people to drink. Moses did this, in the sight of the elders of Israel. (Exodus 17:1-6)

God said, “I will be standing there.” That’s Jesus. The water which issued from the rock gave the Israelites life. That’s Jesus.

***Jesus answered and said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again; but whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” *(John 4:13-14)

The rock in the desert in Exodus 17, the same spiritual rock which Paul speaks about in 1 Corinthians 10, is Jesus Christ.

The passage in 1 Corinthians 10 has nothing to do with Matthew 16. In Matthew 16, Jesus was talking about the rock upon which the Jerusalem Temple was built. Jesus was stating that Peter would be the new rock upon which a new temple would be built. Jesus was removing power from the corrupt Jewish authorities who “Sat on the chair of Moses” and giving the civil-legislative authority to bind and loose to “The Chair of Peter.” Jesus’ words were fullfilled when the temple fell was destroyed in 70AD.

-Tim-