1 Corinthians 13:4-7

[hamburglar]

Hi, some friends were having a discrepancy on this passage. Does any know the interpretation of it?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

What discrepencies because the scriptures I believe speak for themselves.

Can you be more specific?

 

[Fidelis]

Hi,

What discrepencies because the scriptures I believe speak for themselves.

Can you be more specific?

If the Scriptures “speak for themselves” there wouldn’t be discrepancies between interpretations, now would there?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

If the Scriptures “speak for themselves” there wouldn’t be discrepancies between interpretations, now would there?

HAHA but this particular one is pretty clear dont ya think?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hi,

What discrepencies because the scriptures I believe speak for themselves.

Can you be more specific?

Your BACK :dancing: :hug3:

 

[hamburglar]

Hi,

What discrepencies because the scriptures I believe speak for themselves.

Can you be more specific?

Actually, my friend had called me and said that he and some friends were having the discrepancies. He didn’t really explain, Although I know that my two of the people are Roman Catholic, and three are Protestant. Maybe I am looking for ways this relates to the Catholic Church or something.

 

[Fidelis]

HAHA but this particular one is pretty clear dont ya think?

We’ll see about that!

Here’s the passage in question (RSV):

4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

What seems to be the discrepancy, hamburglar?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Actually, my friend had called me and said that he and some friends were having the discrepancies. He didn’t really explain, Although I know that my two of the people are Roman Catholic, and three are Protestant. Maybe I am looking for ways this relates to the Catholic Church or something.

Maybe if you can find out we can help you better.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Your BACK :dancing: :hug3:

Is OK–LOL just playing on words hehe Yes my x-rays came back finePTL so they believe it to be a muscle problem. I will still have to monitor how long I sit though.

Thankyou for noticing:blush:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We’ll see about that!

 

[hamburglar]

Uh, could we relate our discussion to the intended topic please?

 

[Fidelis]

Uh, could we relate our discussion to the intended topic please?

Of course! We’re just keeping ourselves occupied waiting for you to clarify your question. What, exactly, are you asking?

 

[Stolen_Rutters]

Hi, some friends were having a discrepancy on this passage. Does any know the interpretation of it?

Let’s see. 1 Corinthians 13 basically says that without love, all the other spiritual gifts being talked about in the passages around 1Cor13 don’t really do so much. Love is foundational, so to speak, like something required to make all prophesies and the other gifts of spirit meaningful.

Sections 4-7 are defining what love by what love does or does not do, is or is not.

I read it from here. Well, it looks like the footnotes reiterate some of what I said and go into more detail.
usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians13.htm

I can’t imagine a discrepancy within this passage. Maybe what you do with it, but not with the passage itself. The sections around it say love changes everything. I guess it is trying to tell us to be concerned more with whether we love rather than whether we are able to prophesy, have enough faith, or are self sacrificing enough, since without love, it won’t matter.

 

[lak611]

I really do not see how there would be a discrepancy between Catholics and Protestants here. From John Wesley’s Commentary:

1Co 13:4 - The love of God, and of our neighbour for God’s sake, is patient toward, all men. It, suffers all the weakness, ignorance, errors, and infirmities of the children of God; all the malice and wickedness of the children of the world: and all this, not only for a time, but to the end. And in every step toward overcoming evil with good, it is kind, soft, mild, benign. It inspires the sufferer at once with the most amiable sweetness, and the most fervent and tender affection. Love acteth not rashly - Does not hastily condemn any one; never passes a severe sentence on a slight or sudden view of things. Nor does it ever act or behave in a violent, headstrong, or precipitate manner. Is not puffed up - Yea, humbles the soul to the dust.

1Co 13:5 - It doth not behave indecently - Is not rude, or willingly offensive, to any. It renders to all their due - Suitable to time, person, and all other circumstances. Seeketh not her own - Ease, pleasure, honour, or temporal advantage. Nay, sometimes the lover of mankind seeketh not, in some sense, even his own spiritual advantage; does not think of himself, so long as a zeal for the glory of God and the souls of men swallows him up. But, though he is all on fire for these ends, yet he is not provoked to sharpness or unkindness toward any one. Outward provocations indeed will frequently occur; but he triumphs over all. Love thinketh no evil - Indeed it cannot but see and hear evil things, and know that they are so; but it does not willingly think evil of any; neither infer evil where it does not appear. It tears up, root and branch, all imagining of what we have not proof. It casts out all jealousies, all evil surmises, all readiness to believe evil.

to be continued . . .

 

[lak611]

continued from Wesley’s Commentary:

1Co 13:6 - Rejoiceth not in iniquity - Yea, weeps at either the sin or folly of even an enemy; takes no pleasure in hearing or in repeating it, but desires it may be forgotten for ever. But rejoiceth in the truth - Bringing forth its proper fruit, holiness of heart and life. Good in general is its glory and joy, wherever diffused in all the world.

1Co 13:7 - Love covereth all things - Whatever evil the lover of mankind sees, hears, or knows of any one, he mentions it to none; it never goes out of his lips, unless where absolute duty constrains to speak. Believeth all things - Puts the most favourable construction on everything, and is ever ready to believe whatever may tend to the advantage of any one character. And when it can no longer believe well, it hopes whatever may excuse or extenuate the fault which cannot be denied. Where it cannot even excuse, it hopes God will at length give repentance unto life. Meantime it endureth all things - Whatever the injustice, the malice, the cruelty of men can inflict. He can not only do, but likewise suffer, all things, through Christ who strengtheneth him.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

verse 4 has a very minor textual variant that amounts to a hill of beans.

Some translations say the same thing differently, so they may be debating the wording of a translation – “kind” vs “constructive”

Are you sure they are not fighting over verses 8 & 10? Some use those two verses to claim that spiritual gifts like tongues have died out with the apostles.

 

[lak611]

verse 4 has a very minor textual variant that amounts to a hill of beans.

Some translations say the same thing differently, so they may be debating the wording of a translation – “kind” vs “constructive”

Are you sure they are not fighting over verses 8 & 10? Some use those two verses to claim that spiritual gifts like tongues have died out with the apostles.

I don’t see any conflict in verse 8. From the Haydock Commentary (Catholic):

Ver. 8. Prophecies and tongues last not longer than this life. — Knowledge shall be destroyed, that is, that imperfect knowledge we have in this world. For now we know only in part, we only see, as it were, through a glass, and imperfectly. — Faith, which is of things that appear not, and hope, which is of things that we enjoy not, will cease in heaven, but charity, the greater, or greatest even of these three, will remain, and be increased in heaven. (Witham)

From Wesley’s Commentary (Protestant):

1Co 13:8 - Love never faileth - It accompanies to, and adorns us in, eternity; it prepares us for, and constitutes, heaven. But whether there be prophecies, they shall fail - When all things are fulfilled, and God is all in all. Whether there be tongues, they shall cease - One language shall prevail among all the inhabitants of heaven, and the low and imperfect languages of earth be forgotten. The knowledge likewise which we now so eagerly pursue, shall then vanish away - As starlight is lost in that of the midday sun, so our present knowledge in the light of eternity.

Both commentators say that prophecies and tongues only exist in this life, not in heaven, but charity (or love) will remain in heaven.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi Lak611, it is the interpretation that is given to the following passage that causes the problem,

1 Corinthians 13:8-10 (King James Version)

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The theology that I am speaking about is called Cessationalists.
They have a few different approaches to this. 1) the spectacular gifts, tongues, healing, prophecy are viewed as being only “sign gifts” or temportary gifts for the apostolic period ( time of jewish church ) and now that we are in a different dispensation ( gentile church age ) those sign gifts have ceased. 2) with the completion of revelation or “prophecy” which is all the NT books being written, that completed the NT, which is now complete, note “perfect” can be translated as “complete” – the gifts ceased. 3) see quote below. 4) with the closing of the book of Revelation ( 22:18-19 ) there is nothing, no revelation, no prophecy to be added to scripture, thus the means of delivering prophecy, tongues have ceased being useful and thus stopped.

A careful reading of the text demonstrates that Paul may be drawing a distinction between tongues on the one hand and prophecy and knowledge on the other. The latter two gifts will be “done away” with (katargeo). Tongues are said to “cease” (pauo). The “perfect” will actively “do away” with the “partial.” Katargeo is in the passive voice, indicating that the coming of the “perfect” is the cause of the “partial” passing away. Tongues, however, will cease of themselves. Pauo is in the Greek middle voice, which is defined as “an action taken by the subject upon him, her, or itself” (Friberg). Thus, tongues will “cease” of themselves - not as a direct result of “the perfect” coming. If this is the case, Paul is not speaking definitively about when tongues will cease - only that when “the perfect” comes, tongues will no longer be operative in the church. “The perfect” will do away with prophecy and knowledge; but tongues will have ceased at some point prior to that event.

forananswer.org/1Cor/1Cor13_8.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=cessationalist

google.com/search?hl=en&q=tongues+will+cease&btnG=Search

Summary of the Gift of Prophecy
We have noted that the gift of prophecy was temporary. There are three main reasons which we have covered:

1. When the New Testament was completed, there was no reason for additional revelation and the gift of prophecy is always connected with receiving new material from God. You do not find prophets getting material from God just to reiterate what God has already done or said.

1. The apostles and prophets were the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). When the foundation was laid, the material for the foundation was given. When the foundation was complete, there was no longer any need for apostles or prophets.

1. Since there is no longer a need for prophecy, the gift of prophecy came to an end with the completion of the New Testament. “Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away” (1 Cor. 13:8).

rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/char/areview.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=temporary+gifts

licoc.org/Essays/gifts.htm

1. THE CESSATION OF THE GIFTS

Verse 8 clearly states that these three very prominent gifts-- prophecy, knowledge, and tongues–are going to come to an end. The question is: When? Well, that’s the question I am going to attempt to answer.

a. The Inherent Disagreement

My Pentecostal and Charismatic brothers and sisters in Christ say that none of these three gifts have yet ceased. So their answer to the question of when they will cease is, “In the future.” Some of them say that these gifts will cease when “the perfect thing” of verse 10 comes–which they see as future as well. At the other end of the spectrum, I’ve heard others say that all the gifts have already ceased. They don’t believe that there are any spiritual gifts today. Those are the two extreme viewpoints: all the gifts are in effect today or none of them are in effect today. There is also a view that says, “Some of the gifts are now in effect and some of them are not.” Well, which view is correct? Let’s look at the Bible and see if it can answer our questions. It has a way of doing that.

biblebb.com/files/mac/sg1868.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=temporary+gifts

google.com/search?hl=en&q=sign+gifts

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The problem is not the scriptures, it is the interpretation given to the text to deal with the fact that their church does not speak in tongues.

Both sides, tend to let their experience interpret the text. Those in churches that do not practice the spiritual gifts of tongues, prophecy, healing, etc., tend to interpret the text in a way to explain their absense. Those churches that are faking the gifts of the spirit like prophecy and tongues tend to interpret the text to justifly speaking in gibberish.

Yes, there are true gifts today, but most of what is going on in pentecostal circles that I have been exposed to are simply faking it to fit in.

 

[HailMary]

Hi,

What discrepencies because the scriptures I believe speak for themselves.

If the Bible was “self interpreting” why would it remind us that…
2 Pet 3:17-18

Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.
But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity. (Amen.)

And further, why would the it be recorded such that:
Acts 8:30-35

Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
He replied, "**How can I, unless someone instructs me?**" So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
This was the scripture passage he was reading: "Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, and as a lamb before its shearer is silent, so he opened not his mouth.
In (his) humiliation justice was denied him. Who will tell of his posterity? For his life is taken from the earth."
Then the eunuch said to Philip in reply, "I beg you, about whom is the prophet saying this? About himself, or about someone else?"
**Then Philip opened his mouth** and, beginning with this scripture passage, he proclaimed Jesus to him.

If you, even now, still believe in this idea of Sola Scriptura, I encourage anyone of you to read this article.