1 Corinthians 14:34-36 "women should keep silent in the churches"

[2015huntmj]

Corinthians 14:34-36 says “women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak” There has to be another interpertation that church accepts otherwise the we wouldn’t have women at church on sundays.

Recently at school two kids at my school (one a protestant and one an atheist) keep flining this verse in everyones faces. Many girls at my school are starting to panic so please help! The catholic bible im using in a foot note says that “it appears that corinthians 14:34-36 was added to pauls original letter by a latter writter. Perhapes someone copying Paul’s letter needed to show that Christianity was not a movement that would disrupt the social order by allowing women to speak in public.”

Is there anything else I am missing, otherwise this is the argument I will go into school with tomorrow.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Scottgun]

Actually, Paul was addressing a specific problem in the Corinthian church. In ancient Greek society, women were pretty low on the totem pole and generally confined to the home, so when worship time rolled around, the women would be gathered together and would start chattering to the point of disruption of worship and dignity of the occasion. Paul’s order, if I recall correctly, uses the Greek word “siago”, which is the kind of call for silence where there is a great din.

 

[_Abyssinia]

saint-mike.org/qa/fs/viewanswer.asp?QID=599

Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM comments

St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 was dealing with a specific problem in the Corinthian Church but was also establishing a norm based upon the doctrinal economy taught by Christ. St. Paul was not saying that women could not speak. In fact he recognizes women speaking in the form of prophecy in 1 Corinthians 11:5. This passage in 1 Cor 14 is referring to women in the role as official teachers in the liturgy. This is made a little more clear in St. Paul’s teaching to Timothy (cf. 1 Timothy 2:12) in which he says that “I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men…” In both instances St. Paul is talking about the Church assembly, the liturgy. Thus, his teaching is not a blanket teaching that woman cannot teach or have authority outside of the liturgy and Church hierarchy. It is okay, then, for women to be captains of industry with authority over men, bosses, managers, teachers in universities, teachers in seminaries, etc. The prohibition is teaching in the liturgy (e.g., the homily) and authority in the Church hierarchy (the charism of governance the belongs to the bishops).

Now to the specific issue of readers in the Mass. Technically, “lectors” are men. Those authorized to read are first clergy and then those “installed in the office of Lector.” The Installed offices of Lector and Acolyte must be men (either clergy or lay).

If there are insufficient numbers of clergy or installed officers to fulfill the function of Lector, then regular laity may do so on a temporary basis. Since women are members of the laity, that includes them.

Traditionally, the office of Lector was one of the minor orders of a man preparing for priesthood. Vatican II suppressed the minor orders in favor of the three main orders of deacon, priest, and bishop with what use to be the minor orders of acolyte and lectors given the status of “installed offices.” Since then many times bishops would appoint to these “installed offices” young men studying for the priesthood, but in actuality these offices may be held by any Catholic lay man in good standing and who is otherwise qualified.

If bishops appointed sufficient numbers of men to be lectors and acolytes, there would be no need for the extraordinary ministers from the pews. The extraordinary AGAIN have become the same as ordinary.

Extraordinary non-installed lectors are suppose to be used only when needed and only on a temporary basis. Canon Law recognizes that in some parishes there may be lacking sufficient numbers of clergy and installed officers. Thus, these roles must be filled by somebody. The laity may be temporarily deputed to fill that need. But this is to be temporary, not ordinary. The bishops need to be appointing installed officers.

I suspect that the reason bishop’s do not appoint installed officers is that the people would be in an uproar since they would no longer be able to participate as readers and altar servers (or more specifically, the women would up in an uproar).

Canonically, however, whenever these roles of reader and altar server are open to regular laity and not just to clergy and installed officers, then women may be included because they, too, are laity.

It was the same canonical technicality that allowed women and girls to be altar servers. But, as I said, if the bishops appointed sufficient numbers of installed officers (who must be men) then there would be no reason for women (or men) from the pews to serve as readers or altar servers (with the exception of boys as altar servers which Pope John Paul II said is a tradition that is to be maintained).

Anyway, that is how women can be readers.

This role of reader, for men or for women, however, is not a teaching role or a role of authority. It is merely reading the Scripture. Thus St. Paul’s comments, which refer to teaching and authority, do not apply to the role of reading.

books.google.com/books?id=OCkA8TbY-bsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=navarre+bible+corinthians&ei=lek2SvnPEJf2MOGZ7cQJ#PPA108,M1

Navarre Bible comment

The Apostle now gives a very clear ruling (which he repeats in 1 Tim 2:11-14): “women should keep silence in the churches.” He is not opposed to women prophesying (cf. 1 Cor 11:5): "the prohibition solely concerns the official function of teaching in the Christian assembly. For St. Paul, this prescription is bound up with the divine plan of creation (cf. 1 Cor 11:7; Gen 2:18-24). …] Nor should it be forgotten that we owe St. Paul one of the most vigorous texts in the New Testament on the fundamental quality of men and women, as children of God in Christ (cf. Gal 3:28): (ibid., 4)

The variety of roles to be found in the Church - including the fact the ministerial priesthood is restricted to men chosen by God - is compatible with the essential quality of men and women: “the priesthood does not form one of the rights of the individual, but stems from the economy of the mystery of Christ and the Church. …] It therefore remains for us to mediate more deeply on the nature of the real equality of the baptized, which is one of the great affirmations of Christianity: equality is in no way identity, for the Church is a differentiated body, in which each individual has his or her role. The roles are distinct and must not be confused; they do not favor the superiority of some vis-a-vis the others, no do they provide an excuse for jealousy; the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (1 Cor 12-13). The greatest in the kingdom of heaven are not the ministers but the saints” (ibid., 6)

 

[_Abyssinia]

saint-mike.org/qa/fs/viewanswer.asp?QID=599

Bro. Ignatius Mary, OLSM answers a similar question

St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 was dealing with a specific problem in the Corinthian Church but was also establishing a norm based upon the doctrinal economy taught by Christ. St. Paul was not saying that women could not speak. In fact he recognizes women speaking in the form of prophecy in 1 Corinthians 11:5. This passage in 1 Cor 14 is referring to women in the role as official teachers in the liturgy. This is made a little more clear in St. Paul’s teaching to Timothy (cf. 1 Timothy 2:12) in which he says that “I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men…” In both instances St. Paul is talking about the Church assembly, the liturgy. Thus, his teaching is not a blanket teaching that woman cannot teach or have authority outside of the liturgy and Church hierarchy. It is okay, then, for women to be captains of industry with authority over men, bosses, managers, teachers in universities, teachers in seminaries, etc. The prohibition is teaching in the liturgy (e.g., the homily) and authority in the Church hierarchy (the charism of governance the belongs to the bishops).

Now to the specific issue of readers in the Mass. Technically, “lectors” are men. Those authorized to read are first clergy and then those “installed in the office of Lector.” The Installed offices of Lector and Acolyte must be men (either clergy or lay).

If there are insufficient numbers of clergy or installed officers to fulfill the function of Lector, then regular laity may do so on a temporary basis. Since women are members of the laity, that includes them.

Traditionally, the office of Lector was one of the minor orders of a man preparing for priesthood. Vatican II suppressed the minor orders in favor of the three main orders of deacon, priest, and bishop with what use to be the minor orders of acolyte and lectors given the status of “installed offices.” Since then many times bishops would appoint to these “installed offices” young men studying for the priesthood, but in actuality these offices may be held by any Catholic lay man in good standing and who is otherwise qualified.

If bishops appointed sufficient numbers of men to be lectors and acolytes, there would be no need for the extraordinary ministers from the pews. The extraordinary AGAIN have become the same as ordinary.

Extraordinary non-installed lectors are suppose to be used only when needed and only on a temporary basis. Canon Law recognizes that in some parishes there may be lacking sufficient numbers of clergy and installed officers. Thus, these roles must be filled by somebody. The laity may be temporarily deputed to fill that need. But this is to be temporary, not ordinary. The bishops need to be appointing installed officers.

I suspect that the reason bishop’s do not appoint installed officers is that the people would be in an uproar since they would no longer be able to participate as readers and altar servers (or more specifically, the women would up in an uproar).

Canonically, however, whenever these roles of reader and altar server are open to regular laity and not just to clergy and installed officers, then women may be included because they, too, are laity.

It was the same canonical technicality that allowed women and girls to be altar servers. But, as I said, if the bishops appointed sufficient numbers of installed officers (who must be men) then there would be no reason for women (or men) from the pews to serve as readers or altar servers (with the exception of boys as altar servers which Pope John Paul II said is a tradition that is to be maintained).

Anyway, that is how women can be readers.

This role of reader, for men or for women, however, is not a teaching role or a role of authority. It is merely reading the Scripture. Thus St. Paul’s comments, which refer to teaching and authority, do not apply to the role of reading.

books.google.com/books?id=OCkA8TbY-bsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=navarre+bible+corinthians&ei=lek2SvnPEJf2MOGZ7cQJ#PPA108,M1

Navarre Bible comment

The Apostle now gives a very clear ruling (which he repeats in 1 Tim 2:11-14): “women should keep silence in the churches.” He is not opposed to women prophesying (cf. 1 Cor 11:5): "the prohibition solely concerns the official function of teaching in the Christian assembly. For St. Paul, this prescription is bound up with the divine plan of creation (cf. 1 Cor 11:7; Gen 2:18-24). …] Nor should it be forgotten that we owe St. Paul one of the most vigorous texts in the New Testament on the fundamental quality of men and women, as children of God in Christ (cf. Gal 3:28): (ibid., 4)

The variety of roles to be found in the Church - including the fact the ministerial priesthood is restricted to men chosen by God - is compatible with the essential quality of men and women: “the priesthood does not form one of the rights of the individual, but stems from the economy of the mystery of Christ and the Church. …] It therefore remains for us to mediate more deeply on the nature of the real equality of the baptized, which is one of the great affirmations of Christianity: equality is in no way identity, for the Church is a differentiated body, in which each individual has his or her role. The roles are distinct and must not be confused; they do not favor the superiority of some vis-a-vis the others, no do they provide an excuse for jealousy; the only better gift, which can and must be desired, is love (1 Cor 12-13). The greatest in the kingdom of heaven are not the ministers but the saints” (ibid., 6)

 

[PJM]

=2015huntmj;10091010]Corinthians 14:34-36 says “women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not allowed to speak” There has to be another interpertation that church accepts otherwise the we wouldn’t have women at church on sundays.

Recently at school two kids at my school (one a protestant and one an atheist) keep flining this verse in everyones faces. Many girls at my school are starting to panic so please help! The catholic bible im using in a foot note says that “it appears that corinthians 14:34-36 was added to pauls original letter by a latter writter. Perhapes someone copying Paul’s letter needed to show that Christianity was not a movement that would disrupt the social order by allowing women to speak in public.”

Is there anything else I am missing, otherwise this is the argument I will go into school with tomorrow.

Thanks,
Matt

Hi Matt:

The precise teaching here is that Women are not to PREACH at Mass.

That remains TRUE in the present times as ONLY a Bishop; Priest or Deacon [all male gender as was Christ and the Apostles] can [are authorized by the Magisterium too] Preach the Homily.

This neither forbids or denys a wormens RIGHT to teach outside of the Mass:thumbsup:
Nor or they prohibited from the Role of Lector ALL THOUGH men are too desired BUT NOT commanded for this role. The Bishops can deside on the Lector issue.

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[lemerjoe]

Should Women Keep Silence in Church?

jimmyakin.com/2012/09/should-women-keep-silence-in-church.html

 

[NenaPR51]

Let us not be discouraged or angered by 1 Corinthians 14: 34-36 ladies.The Old & New Testaments show that women participated in the covenant with God and took active roles in salvation history. There is an apostolic tradition though that we must follow if we are to be Catholic Christians. The liturgy of the Mass was set up where only male priests and deacons can officiate it. I am not going to argue against this for His church was established in this way for a reason, whether I understand it or not. All along the history of the Church we have had some powerful women of God, like Esther and some Doctors of the Church, like Saint Catherine of Siena, Saint Teresa of Avila, and Saint Therese of Lisieux to name a few. We have proven ourselves over the centuries and will continue to do so. But what better honor to us women than our Blessed Mother, the Mother of Christ, the Mother of God! What better honor to women than Mary! Let us not forget though that her purity, humility and obedience were the qualities that made her “full of grace” and that was why the Lord was with her.

 

[PJM]

=NenaPR51;11957842]Let us not be discouraged or angered by 1 Corinthians 14: 34-36 ladies.The Old & New Testaments show that women participated in the covenant with God and took active roles in salvation history. There is an apostolic tradition though that we must follow if we are to be Catholic Christians. The liturgy of the Mass was set up where only male priests and deacons can officiate it. I am not going to argue against this for His church was established in this way for a reason, whether I understand it or not. All along the history of the Church we have had some powerful women of God, like Esther and some Doctors of the Church, like Saint Catherine of Siena, Saint Teresa of Avila, and Saint Therese of Lisieux to name a few. We have proven ourselves over the centuries and will continue to do so. But what better honor to us women than our Blessed Mother, the Mother of Christ, the Mother of God! What better honor to women than Mary! Let us not forget though that her purity, humility and obedience were the qualities that made her “full of grace” and that was why the Lord was with her.

Thank you so much! You GOT IT:thumbsup:

God Bless you,

Patrick