1 John 4:12

[Loml]

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.

Why does John, an apostle who saw Jesus with his own eyes, say this? What does he mean?

Thanks

 

[PAboy57]

I’m going to say he is referring to God the Father.

 

[steveb1]

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.

Why does John, an apostle who saw Jesus with his own eyes, say this? What does he mean?

Thanks

John in this passage must not be thinking of Jesus as incarnate Word, he must be thinking of the eternal, bodiless Father who according to his christology has only been “seen” by Jesus. His meaning seems to be that though God cannot be seen by mortals, God can nonetheless be experienced within the hearts of believers who “love each other”.

The real problem is that John is mistaken. The Torah is replete with references to Jews who saw God. In one place, God is plainly seen by many elders during a picnic on Sinai’s slopes - Exodus 24: 9-11.

It would seem, therefore, that John is operating from a theology or a tradition in which it was thought that no one has seen God. Where he got this unbiblical notion is the rather puzzling question.

 

[NotWorthy]

John in this passage must not be thinking of Jesus as incarnate Word, he must be thinking of the eternal, bodiless Father who according to his christology has only been “seen” by Jesus. His meaning seems to be that though God cannot be seen by mortals, God can nonetheless be experienced within the hearts of believers who “love each other”.

The real problem is that John is mistaken. The Torah is replete with references to Jews who saw God. In one place, God is plainly seen by many elders during a picnic on Sinai’s slopes - Exodus 24: 9-11.

It would seem, therefore, that John is operating from a theology or a tradition in which it was thought that no one has seen God. Where he got this unbiblical notion is the rather puzzling question.

That is a good point, but you’ll find that, after the “Calf-Gate” incident, you won’t find anybody seeing God for the rest of the Old Testament. Even Moses has to hide his face in a cleft after this point, if I recall correctly.

But I agree with your statement, John must be referring to God the Father, and not God the Incarnate.

And isn’t John simply quoting what Jesus said in John’s Gospel?

 

[thistle]

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.

Why does John, an apostle who saw Jesus with his own eyes, say this? What does he mean?

Thanks

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 12. No man hath seen God at any time. No mortal man hath seen God and the perfections of his divine Majesty in such a manner as the blessed in heaven, but we have powerful motives to love and serve him, and to love our neighbour for his sake. (Witham)

 

[FaithfulAndTrue]

I’m not a Greek scholar but I think the sense of the Greek word used there is more like “intensely look at” and, yeah, I believe he’s referencing the Father like someone said above.

 

[DPMartin]

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God. Yet, if we love one another, God remains in us, and his love is brought to perfection in us.

Why does John, an apostle who saw Jesus with his own eyes, say this? What does he mean?

Thanks

I don’t know if this helps or not

I was at a bible study to visit a friend who was in town and the scripture that was being read was 1Cor 13 which is the infamous writings of Paul on Love “charity” and the group there started going on with what seemed to be a mutual admiration party that by telling me and others that they had God’s Love. Now it has been my experience that when God’s Great Loving Grace and Mercy and Forgiveness is with some one, they don’t have to tell you. Hence if some one is telling you that there love is God’s Love, it’s not God’s Love.

In this same respect men like John knew God was in the embodiment of flesh or “Son of man” we know as Jesus Christ, and Jesus didn’t have to tell John that this was so, John could plainly see that this is so. Kinda like when Moses’ face was shining they didn’t see the source of the Light, but they saw that the Light was shining from the face of Moses.

 

[ryanoneil]

The divine essence of God is invisible spirit.

God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth." (Jn 4:24)

who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, and whom no human being has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal power. Amen. (1 Tim 6:16)

His divine love, however, is made visible in the humanity and mission of Jesus.

Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (Jn 14:9)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. (Col 1:15)