1 John 5:13 question

[ALLFORHIM]

Hi,

I was wondering how you all intrepret this verse.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you so you may know that you have eternal life…

1 John is pretty convicting Scripture as far as being a christian or not.

I am just curious if catholics and non-catholic christians would intrepret this verse differently.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Veritas41]

As a former evangelical who believed “once saved, always saved” I would say the main difference in the way this passage would be interepreted differently among Catholics and Protestants would be if St. John is saying here that we know we’re saved and will always be saved. This verse is often used as a “proof text” for the “eternal security/once saved always saved” belief. But all St. John is saying here, reading the previous and following verses, is that if we believe in Jesus and keep His commandments, we can know that we have His life within us, we are in a state of grace. It doesn’t say that state is permanent and guaranteed regardless of what we do. In fact, the following verses (16-17) suggest that it isn’t guaranteed. We can commit sin that leads to spiritual death (“mortal”), which would of course mean we no longer have Christ’s life within us (grace).

 

[copland]

Veritas41 basically said everyting that I would say. In other words we can trust in the promises of God. We can trust that if we follow God the way we know we should then we are in the state of grace. And we know that the promises of God teach us that if we do not then we are not in the state of grace. St. John in the same letter say this,

5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

 

[sandusky]

ALLFORHIM:

Hi,

I was wondering how you all intrepret this verse.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you so you may know that you have eternal life…

1 John is pretty convicting Scripture as far as being a christian or not.

I am just curious if catholics and non-catholic christians would intrepret this verse differently.

Thanks in advance.

This letter is written to you who believe… (v13); it is not a gospel tract, but a letter to Christians.

John has said much about KNOWLEDGE and now we find that the whole letter is written
SO THAT you may KNOW that you have eternal life.

Assurance of salvation is important for the believer, important enough to be the cause of this letter. Here only in this letter does the writer speak of believing in the name of Jesus, i.e. in his full person, all that the name stands for (cf 3:23 the Gk. means ‘believe the name’).

 

[Elzee]

I think it was Tim Staples who I head comment on this verse. In Greek, the word for ‘know’ in this case means ‘confidence’ - not absolute, 100% knowledge. Any Greek experts out there who can speak further to this??

 

[sandusky]

Elzee:

think it was Tim Staples who I head comment on this verse. In Greek, the word for ‘know’ in this case means ‘confidence’ - not absolute, 100% knowledge. Any Greek experts out there who can speak further to this??

It is the Gk word oida. It means just what it says, “to know."

In addition, it is written in what is known as a “HINA,” or a “PURPOSE” clause, or statement, as indicated by the word “hina” preceding it, i.e., hina eidāte, which is why I CAPPED and BOLDED the words SO THAT.

IOW, John is writing this SO THAT believers may know, as an established, certain fact, that they have eternal life; and believers do know that.

John wrote his gospel hina pisteuāte, or SO THAT you may believe (Jn 20:31).

Why do you think that God does not want His church to know that they are saved?

He says it so clearly?

 

[NotWorthy]

Here only in this letter does the writer speak of believing in the name of Jesus, i.e. in his full person, all that the name stands for (cf 3:23 the Gk. means ‘believe the name’).

I understand that “believing in His Name” means to “believe in all that He has taught”. Sorry if that’s a little off-topic.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I understand that “believing in His Name” means to “believe in all that He has taught”. Sorry if that’s a little off-topic.

Hi,
Yes I agree but it goes deeper then that. There are alot of people who believe in what Jesus teaches but they dont feel it in their heart. Of course I cant explain this but if you are saved you know what I mean.

In other words we need to not only have head knowledge but also heart knowledge.

My husband knows and believes who Jesus was because that is how he was raised , but he has shown no fruits as to having actually accepted that knowledge.

Ok back on topic Since it is my thread I can say so

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi,
Yes I agree but it goes deeper then that. There are alot of people who believe in what Jesus teaches but they dont feel it in their heart. Of course I cant explain this but if you are saved you know what I mean.

In other words we need to not only have head knowledge but also heart knowledge.

My husband knows and believes who Jesus was because that is how he was raised , but he has shown no fruits as to having actually accepted that knowledge.

Ok back on topic Since it is my thread I can say so

You’re husbands Catholic, right? We’ve GOT to get him to an ACTS retreat!!! That will light a fire under him that will never become extinguished!!!

And yes, Jesus must write his Law onto our hearts, or else we are just spinning our wheels!

 

[jemfinch]

He writes so that we may know, now, presently, that we now, presently, have eternal life. He doesn’t write so that we may know that we always will have eternal life.

Jeremy

 

[montanaman]

Hi,

I was wondering how you all intrepret this verse.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you so you may know that you have eternal life…

1 John is pretty convicting Scripture as far as being a christian or not.

I am just curious if catholics and non-catholic christians would intrepret this verse differently.

Thanks in advance.

I recently had to write out detailed instructions for my mom and sister to navigate to a distant location in D.C. They’re from the other side of the country, and I unfortunately couldn’t chauffer them around. They had to find this place on their own.

I wrote every Metro stop necessary, which levels in the Metro stations to take, which trains to take, etc. I even told them where to turn left or right. I wrote these things so that they would know how to find the destination.

Know what? They decided to be creative and find their own way. They were two hours late to the wedding shower.

I think my homespun parable illustrates that 1 John 5:13 isn’t as solid as an OSAS proof text as some would think.

 

[VociMike]

This letter is written to you who believe… (v13); it is not a gospel tract, but a letter to Christians.

John has said much about KNOWLEDGE and now we find that the whole letter is written
SO THAT you may KNOW that you have eternal life.

Assurance of salvation is important for the believer, important enough to be the cause of this letter. Here only in this letter does the writer speak of believing in the name of Jesus, i.e. in his full person, all that the name stands for (cf 3:23 the Gk. means ‘believe the name’).

But there is no assurance of belief. There is no guarantee of Once Believing, Always Believing. There is also no assurance that all belief (faith) is living (saving) faith. Ask James about dead faith (belief).

 

[allischalmers]

Hi,
Yes I agree but it goes deeper then that. There are alot of people who believe in what Jesus teaches but they dont feel it in their heart. Of course I cant explain this but if you are saved you know what I mean.

In other words we need to not only have head knowledge but also heart knowledge.

My husband knows and believes who Jesus was because that is how he was raised , but he has shown no fruits as to having actually accepted that knowledge.

Ok back on topic Since it is my thread I can say so

Hi
I find what you are saying interesting. There are a lot of people the have a head knowledge of Jesus Christ and also a lot of Biblical knowledge but are not true Christians. The root cause being that they were most likely taught that in a church or Sunday School or religious school of some kind.
Some people believe that they are Christian because they said a prayer or were baptised or took commioum.
But heart knowledge only come from God. Eph 2;1 says the “You hath He(God) quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sin.”
Heart Knowledge come when God brings your spirit to life and when he does you will know it

Seven Decades walking with the Lord
Seven decade a Baptist
allischalmers

 

[mercygate]

He writes so that we may know, now, presently, that we now, presently, have eternal life. He doesn’t write so that we may know that we always will have eternal life.

Jeremy

This is affirmed in Luke 8:13 – the parable of the seed and the sower in which Jesus affirms that many who believe will fall away. He does not distinguish between “said” faith and “true” faith. He states without qualification that it is possible for believers to fall away:

“And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.”

 

[ALLFORHIM]

You’re husbands Catholic, right? We’ve GOT to get him to an ACTS retreat!!! That will light a fire under him that will never become extinguished!!!

And yes, Jesus must write his Law onto our hearts, or else we are just spinning our wheels!

Hey,

Yes in name only. What is an ACTS retreat? If you knew my husband:ehh: I cant imagine ever getting him to a retreat. At least at this moment in time. Maybe someday when he is more open to the Word of God.

 

[Verita]

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you so you may know that you have eternal life…

1 John is pretty convicting Scripture as far as being a christian or not.

It seems to me that the operative word in this verse is “may”. Using the dictionary definition of the word “may” we could interpret the sentence this way:

I write these thigs to you so you will have the ability to know that you have eternal life.

The word “may” is also used to express a wish or desire. In that version John wishes or desires that the believers he is writing to will use his words in an effort to gain knowledge of eternal life.

Also “may” is used to express purpose or expectation. John expects the believers to be able to use his words to gain knowledge of eternal life.

or choice. When someone “may know” they have a choice. They can either use John’s words to know or they can disregard them.

 

[Flopfoot]

“We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation” (from www.catholic.com library on salvation)

Not sure how I would interpret that verse, but any interpretation that would claim that we could know whether we are going to Heaven or not, while we still live on this earth, is wrong. So yes, I am pretty sure I would interpret this verse differently to many non-Catholic Christians.

 

[sandusky]

It seems to me that the operative word in this verse is “may”. Using the dictionary definition of the word “may” we could interpret the sentence this way:

I write these thigs to you so you will have the ability to know that you have eternal life.

The word “may” is also used to express a wish or desire. In that version John wishes or desires that the believers he is writing to will use his words in an effort to gain knowledge of eternal life.

Also “may” is used to express purpose or expectation. John expects the believers to be able to use his words to gain knowledge of eternal life.

or choice. When someone “may know” they have a choice. They can either use John’s words to know or they can disregard them.

Elzee asked for a Greek expert, I don’t think it is necessary as even the English translation is clear enough, and I am certain that John’s intent, and the Lord’s intent is that His church KNOW that they have eternal life. God is neither a God of confusion, nor a God of uncertainty.

Here are the words of Greek scholar A.T. Robertson on the Greek in 1 Jn 5:13.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Why do you think that God does not want His church to know that they are saved?

He says it so clearly?

So clearly, huh? Maybe if you take that single verse out of context you can come to that conclusion, but it is certainly not inline with the rest of the chapter, and definately not inline with the rest of Scripture. Take for example Romans 11:21-23

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

This certainly does not speak of once saved, always saved.

(And neither do these 50+ verses speak of OSAS: scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html#salvation-II )

 

[sandusky]

E.E.N.S.:

So clearly, huh? Maybe if you take that single verse out of context you can come to that conclusion, but it is certainly not inline with the rest of the chapter, and definately not inline with the rest of Scripture.

The context of 1 John is “Knowledge, Knowing.” Read it, and record the number of times he talks about “knowing.” It is John’s intent, and the Lords intent, that His church knows it is saved.
E.E.N.S.:

Take for example Romans 11:21-23

21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

This certainly does not speak of once saved, always saved.

You have certainly taken that verse out of context.

The chapter is not about individual salvation, but about the salvation of Jew and Gentile in God’s plan. Paul is explaining the reason that Israel has been “cut off.” They have been “cut off” to bring in the Gentiles, thereby making Israel jealous as they see the Gentiles receiving God’s blessings, while they receive God’s severity.

However, in their grafting in, the Gentiles have become “boastful.” Boasting is the opposite of faith.

Paul is scolding them for being boastful, and warning them, that IF they do not stop boasting, and continue in faith, they too will receive the severity of God, and run the risk of being “cut off.”

The church will apostatize at some point, if it has not already, and God will judge the apostate church (cf Rev 2:15, 16; 3:16) just as surely as He judged apostate Israel.

Within apostate Israel, and the apostate church, God always keeps for Himself a “remnant,” those who have not “bowed the knee to Baal” (11:3-5).