1 John 5:16 - Mortal/Venial Distinction

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One common refrain I’ve seen arguing for the existence of a distinction between mortal and venial sins is 1 John 5:16. Two questions based on this verse:

(1) My (Protestant) NIV translates this passage to say, “There is a sin that leads to death.” “A” sin? I’m confused? This sounds like there is only one sinful action that leads to death. Sounds like there is only one mortal sin. If there is only one, would it be the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as found in Mark 3:29?

Now, I’m strongly considering Rome, so don’t think I’m trying to attack the Church’s scriptural interpretation. I’m just trying to figure this out. My presumption is that although the Magisterium also relies upon tradition, it wouldn’t contradict Scripture, so what does this verse mean? Is this translation particular to the NIV for some reason? I frequently see the verse quoted on these boards and “a” is missing, suggesting that there is “sin” that leads to death. The latter would admit more of a “category” of sins that are mortal . . .

(2) The verse also says to pray for brothers whom we see sinning in a way that doesn’t lead to death, and noting that we apparently don’t “have to” pray for those whom we see committing the (?) sin that leads to death. What does this mean?

Thanks!
 
Here is 1 John 5:16 from a number of different translations.

1Jn 5:16

(ASV) If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request.

(DRB) He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask.

(ESV) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life–to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

(KJV) If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

(MKJV) If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it.

(MSG) For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I’m not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is “fatal,” leading to eternal death), we ask for God’s help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I’m not urging you to pray about that.

(NAS77) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

(NASB) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this.

(RV) If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request.

It does not specify one type of sin that leads to death, so it is referring to mortal sin of any type.
 
Well now just because it doesn’t specify the sin doesn’t mean its a whole category. That it doesn’t specifiy the sin doesn’t foreclose that possibility, but I don’t think its obvious that the failure to specify means that Jesus was clearly speaking of a category of sins. It begs the question why so many translations say “a sin” instead of just “sin.”
 
Montgomeryatty said:
It begs the question why so many translations say “a sin” instead of just “sin.”
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Well, when referring to sin that does not cause death, John also says “a sin” in the translations too. So both categories, venial (not causing death) and mortal (causing death) are given. I think it is because John does not list all the sins in either category, he just says there are venial and mortal sins.
 
My friend, I believe you are really over-parsing the language here.

I believe 1 John 15:16 must be read with verse 17.

(NIV)(16)If anyone sees his brother commit **a sin **that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is **a sin **that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. (17)All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

BUT, consider the KJV:

(16)If any man see his brother sin **a sin **which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is **a sin **unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. (17)All unrighteousness is sin: and there is **a sin **not unto death.

Would we conclude that there is but a singular mortal sin and but a singular venial sin?

The phrase “It is wrong to commit sin” is equivalent to “It is wrong to commit a sin.”
 
Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but I would appreciate some insight on the last part of the verse which instructs us not to pray for those who have committed mortal sin - do I have that right? It seems contradictory.:confused:
 
servingHim said:
Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but I would appreciate some insight on the last part of the verse which instructs us not to pray for those who have committed mortal sin - do I have that right? It seems contradictory.:confused:
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This verse?
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
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I maybe able to help
 
lak611 said:
Here is 1 John 5:16 from a number of different translations.

1Jn 5:16

(ASV) If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. **There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. **
(DRB) He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. **There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask. **
(ESV) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life–to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. **There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. **

(KJV) If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
(MKJV) If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. **There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it. **

(MSG) For instance, if we see a Christian believer sinning (clearly I’m not talking about those who make a practice of sin in a way that is “fatal,” leading to eternal death), we ask for God’s help and he gladly gives it, gives life to the sinner whose sin is not fatal. **There is such a thing as a fatal sin, and I’m not urging you to pray about that. **
(NAS77) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. **There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. **
(NASB) If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. **There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. **
(RV) If any man see his brother sinning a sin not unto death, he shall ask, and God will give him life for them that sin not unto death. **There is a sin unto death: not concerning this do I say that he should make request. **
It does not specify one type of sin that leads to death, so it is referring to mortal sin of any type.
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The parts of the verse in bold are the parts I do not understand well.
 
servingHim,

If you are having trouble with the verse, you are in good company. St. Augustine acknowledged some difficulty with the verse:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/107/1070143.htm

He suggests that this may apply to Christians who have turned their back on the faith and actively fight the faith, which he also conjectures this may also be the “sins against the Holy Spirit” which “will not be forgiven in this age or the next.” (Matt. 12:32).

Your question may not have a definitive answer, but I note that it does not seem to be an absolute prohibition against prayer for these individuals.
 
SamDash said:
servingHim,

If you are having trouble with the verse, you are in good company. St. Augustine acknowledged some difficulty with the verse:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/107/1070143.htm

He suggests that this may apply to Christians who have turned their back on the faith and actively fight the faith, which he also conjectures this may also be the “sins against the Holy Spirit” which “will not be forgiven in this age or the next.” (Matt. 12:32).

Your question may not have a definitive answer, but I note that it does not seem to be an absolute prohibition against prayer for these individuals.
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Thanks, SamDash

The verse from Matthew you quoted is also confusing to me. I have yet to find where in the Bible the “sins against the Holy Spirit” are clearly defined. In my Bible, the footnote for this verse suggests that these were sins that could not be committed in the present age; that they were associated with acient biblical times.:confused: Can you point me to scripture that discusses this more?
 
The Mortal sin which cannot be forgiven is not believing in the Great Sacrament of Confession/denial of the Holy Spirit’s ability through the Priest to forgive sin. It is turning our backs on our only source of forgiveness and Salvation. The world today wants us to believe that nothing is sinful.

For this reason we see no lines to the confessional, no "last-Sacraments being given in our hospitals to the dying, everyong going to Holy Communion. Why? Because in this Secular Societal revolutionary times, many Catholics, unfortunately believe that it is no longer necessary.

gloria:o
 
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