1 John IV Epilogue- 'don't pray for deadly sinners?"

[newportrojan]

Hello…

I am struggling with this passage. 1st Letter of John IV. Epilogue vs.16-17…

“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and He will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly”

what does this mean? on the surface it seems to me to say “don’t pray for those that committ serious sin”…but this can’t be right… Please help thanks!

Eric

 

[PhilotheaZ]

This one has perplexed me, too. I looked it up in the footnotes to my Haydock Douay-Rheims Bible and found a discussion of it that suggests it might refer to particularly heinous sins of hardened sinners who are unlikely to repent. It also says this does not mean we should not pray for such sinners (we must pray for all sinners, and God wants all to be saved), but that in such cases we cannot always expect to receive what we ask.

You can read the notes at haydock1859.tripod.com/id279.html (scroll down to Ver. 16).

 

[geekborj]

Hello…

I am struggling with this passage. 1st Letter of John IV. Epilogue vs.16-17…

“If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and He will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly”

what does this mean? on the surface it seems to me to say “don’t pray for those that committ serious sin”…but this can’t be right… Please help thanks!

Eric

This is a letter that indeed proves that there are venial and mortal sins. If i am to read this, and based on what i have currently learned from the Church, it indicates that we should pray for all our brothers and sisters that are sinning. Note that anybody can never ascertain without doubt the intent of another person. Only God knows the heart of every human 100%. We have no right to judge a person whether he did a deadly sin or not. But we must always have hope and pray for the person that he is not sinning a “deadly sin” (that is, a mortal sin).

A mortal sin is a conscious act of sinning. When we mean conscious it means having doubts but does it anyway. Another sign would be trying to justify your action even when not called for.

 

[DarkMark]

John clearly believed that there are venial and mortal sins.

"Even though the Lord commands us to pray for our very persecutors, this passage [1 John 5:16] clearly shows that there are some brothers for whom we are not commanded to pray …] I think that the sin of a brother is unto death when anyone who has attained a knowledge of God through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ opposes the brotherhood and is aroused by the fires of envy agaisnt that very grace by which he was reconciled to God " (Saint Augustine, De sermone Domini in monte)

“…] John is talking here about trivial, everyday sins which are hard to avoid but which are easy to put right. The question of what a constitutes a mortal sin is very difficult, and it is hard to accept that there are people whom John tells us not to pray for, when our Lord tells us that we should pray for those who persecute us. The only answer to this that there must be sins committed within the fellowship of the brothers which are even more serious than persecution from outside enemies. Mortal sin therefore occurs when a brother opposes the fellowship after he has come to acknowledge God by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ …] A nonmortal sin is one which does not infringe on brotherly love but merely fails to show it adequately because of some weakness of mind” (Saint Bede Venerable, In epistulas septem catholicas).

In seems that if one commit a certain mortal sin, it is unlikely for them to turn back to grace. Therefore, we should not hope for the request of our prayers to be answered. However, this does not mean that we should not pray for sinners. It just mean that we should not be confident that our prayers will be honor.

God Bless

 

[CathFaith1]

what does this mean? on the surface it seems to me to say “don’t pray for those that committ serious sin”…but this can’t be right… Please help thanks!

It is clear John is teaching that not all sins are of the same gravity. Some are deadly, some are not. Yet in this verse the term “brother”, is used, which appears to be indicating a believer. The warning here is that a *‘brother in Christ’ * can commit a deadly sin.

I find it similar to the moral of the story of Lot and his wife. Lot’s family was given special protection from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra. They were told to leave and not turn back. Lot’s wife turned back and was turned into a pillar of salt. Thus the lesson is after God offered such special protection (grace) she willfully turned back to the sin and it destroyed her.

"There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that."

The lesson here seems to indicate that when the Holy Spirit has offered us the grace to turn away from grave sin, if we choose to turn back - we have rejected God’s grace. Thus we die. It is also an important reminder people cannot change hearts - only the Holy Spirit can. If one rejects the Holy Spirit, prayers cannot be answered.

 

[jewelz]

did it say that there is A (meaning one only) sin that is deadly?

I think that this was the sin of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Because it will never be forgiven.

Or it can be the sin of Unbelief, because if you don’t believe at all then you are indeed dead in your sins and hopeless.