1 Peter 1:12 - Test of the Angels?

[Little_One0307]

Morning All,

I came across this Scripture passage and was pretty dumbfounded by it. I have read in some thoughts the Church Fathers said that the angels were tested in that they saw the Incarnation somehow, and yet this does not seem to fit with this verse.

Another question to consider, if the Angels did see the Incarnation when they were tested, why did Satan not do more to stop Jesus? Did Satan know that Jesus was the Son of God?

So what or how were the angels tested?

I am going to stop asking questions and wait for answers on this one.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I have read that Satan rebelled by refusing to worship Jesus as a human, since humans are inferior to angels. While Satan knew that God would become a human, he didn’t know which human. The temptations in the desert were to force Jesus to show if He was the one.

I think that view has considerable support, and does not violate any Church teaching. On the other hand, I don’t think the Church has commented on it. So it is probably best described as intelligent speculation.

 

[Little_One0307]

I have read that Satan rebelled by refusing to worship Jesus as a human, since humans are inferior to angels. While Satan knew that God would become a human, he didn’t know which human. The temptations in the desert were to force Jesus to show if He was the one.

I think that view has considerable support, and does not violate any Church teaching. On the other hand, I don’t think the Church has commented on it. So it is probably best described as intelligent speculation.

Hmmmm. I had never thought of the temptaions in the desert that way, but it would make sense. So did Satan know who Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsameni? [yikes I hate spelling this word.]

Thanks for taking time to respond to this thread.

God bless.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Hmmmm. I had never thought of the temptations in the desert that way, but it would make sense. So did Satan know who Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsameni? [yikes I hate spelling this word.]

Thanks for taking time to respond to this thread.

God bless.

I think that in the Garden Satan knew who He was and was just trying to make Him more miserable. It is often stated that in the Garden Jesus’ agony was foreseeing all the sin of the world and the Father’s wrath due to it. I speculate that Satan taunted Him with the numbers who would refuse to repent and reject Him, and so make His Sacrifice fruitless.

Again just my speculations. I don’t have a source to quote.

 

[Little_One0307]

I think that in the Garden Satan knew who He was and was just trying to make Him more miserable. It is often stated that in the Garden Jesus’ agony was foreseeing all the sin of the world and the Father’s wrath due to it. I speculate that Satan taunted Him with the numbers who would refuse to repent and reject Him, and so make His Sacrifice fruitless.

Again just my speculations. I don’t have a source to quote.

I am reading the account that Sister Catherine Emmirich gave of the Passion and in it she said the same thing. Sounds like you are not the only one with those speculations. She also stated in the garden that what wounded him most of all were the sins that were to be committed by the ones who would accept Him and the ingratitudes of those in the Church. That gave me pause when I thought about it.

I myself find myself agreeing with those speculations. I remember watching the Passion of the Christ where Satan was telling Jesus in the garden that no man could redeem all their souls and that it was too costly. But lol, I did not want to quote a Hollywood movie.

God Bless.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I am reading the account that Sister Catherine Emmirich gave of the Passion and in it she said the same thing. Sounds like you are not the only one with those speculations. She also stated in the garden that what wounded him most of all were the sins that were to be committed by the ones who would accept Him and the ingratitudes of those in the Church. That gave me pause when I thought about it.

I myself find myself agreeing with those speculations. I remember watching the Passion of the Christ where Satan was telling Jesus in the garden that no man could redeem all their souls and that it was too costly. But lol, I did not want to quote a Hollywood movie.

God Bless.

Thanks for the corroboration.

I thought The Passion of the Christ did well in its theology. I particularly liked that scene of the falling tear from Heaven at the Crucifixion. I read that that was added late in the editing at the suggestion of a couple of priests who were given a preview. While it was only speculation, I liked the idea of bringing the Father into the action. I find it regretful that we have no Scriptural. knowledge of Him at either the Nativity or the Crucifixion.

 

[roselily]

How have angels be test?

How so?

I read in 1 Peter 12 and thought that it is just a metaphor that our kind and merciful Redeemer has propared for us a living hope- eternal happiness kept in heaven for us that angels long to look.

Why angels been tested?

**1 Peter

A living Hope

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,5who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.6In this you rejoice, even if now for a little while you have had to suffer various trials,7so that the genuineness of your faith—being more precious than gold that, though perishable, is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honour when Jesus Christ is revealed.8Although you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,9for you are receiving the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours made careful search and inquiry,11inquiring about the person or time that the Spirit of Christ within them indicated, when it testified in advance to the sufferings destined for Christ and the subsequent glory.12It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look!**

 

[Little_One0307]

Thanks for the corroboration.

I thought The Passion of the Christ did well in its theology. I particularly liked that scene of the falling tear from Heaven at the Crucifixion. I read that that was added late in the editing at the suggestion of a couple of priests who were given a preview. While it was only speculation, I liked the idea of bringing the Father into the action. I find it regretful that we have no Scriptural. knowledge of Him at either the Nativity or the Crucifixion.

Joe,

Yes I loved that tear too, that was so moving. I just watched the movie for the first time this past year. We don’t have Scriptural knowledge that the Father was at the Nativity or the Crucifixion, and yet we can imply where you have One Person of the Trinity there the other two are. And what One Person does outside the Trinity, the rest of the Persons are involved as well. [Am referring to De Fide doctines.] So the Father is there.

I am also reminded of when Jesus said to an apostle, I cannot remember his name, If you know me, you know my Father or if you have seen me you have seen the Father. [Something to this effect. It is late at night and I am kinda tired to be looking it up. Going to town is always a bit draining on me.]

My favorite scene though is when Jesus fell carrying the cross and it showed him falling as a child. And Mary ran to him both times. I like to think of when I have fallen due to my many shortcomings and sins, that she, The Immaculate Mother of God runs to me and gathers me into her arms and whispers I am here. Then she points the way back to Jesus. I cried like a baby when I saw that scene.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

Roselily,

What prompted this entire thread was another response that I have to someone else in another thread.

I remember reading somewhere that the angels had been testeed before they were confirmed in grace and granted the beautific vision that they somehow knew about the Incarnation. I was asking about something that looked like a contradiction, but does not seem to be contradictory at all.

I am still in 1st Peter Chapter 1 with my lectio divina. I don’t think I will be updating the Praise the Lord, Bless the Lord thread as often as I should. I remember posting in another thread, it may take me a lifetime to read the bible, but that is okay. I felt that I was falling behind, but my SD said it is far better to read it lectio divina and slowly then feel stressed out because I was falling behind. I wanted to stay on schedule, but following counsel, I am reading lectio divina style and will be posting what I am reading a bit slower.
God bless.*

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Morning All,

I came across this Scripture passage and was pretty dumbfounded by it. I have read in some thoughts the Church Fathers said that the angels were tested in that they saw the Incarnation somehow, and yet this does not seem to fit with this verse.

Another question to consider, if the Angels did see the Incarnation when they were tested, why did Satan not do more to stop Jesus? Did Satan know that Jesus was the Son of God?

So what or how were the angels tested?

I am going to stop asking questions and wait for answers on this one.

I think it has something to do with the Angel being more glorious then Humans before Jesus. I mean seriously, they are pure spirits, like God. They don’t “think” like we do - they are purely intellectual. If you gave an angel the axioms of geometry, in an instant, they will know all conceivable consequence because that is how smart they are. We are like snails compared to them. Take pity on your guardian angel and next time you receive the Holy Eucharist, ask if your angel can receive some of the graces. So when the angels heard of the idea that God is coming to become incarnate as us, many of them couldn’t accept that - and once an angel makes a decision, they don’t change their mind.

To answer the question:
**Did Satan know that Jesus was the Son of God?
**It must be no, otherwise he wouldn’t have even tried.

 

[Little_One0307]

I think it has something to do with the Angel being more glorious then Humans before Jesus. I mean seriously, they are pure spirits, like God. They don’t “think” like we do - they are purely intellectual. If you gave an angel the axioms of geometry, in an instant, they will know all conceivable consequence because that is how smart they are. We are like snails compared to them. Take pity on your guardian angel and next time you receive the Holy Eucharist, ask if your angel can receive some of the graces. So when the angels heard of the idea that God is coming to become incarnate as us, many of them couldn’t accept that - and once an angel makes a decision, they don’t change their mind.

To answer the question:
**Did Satan know that Jesus was the Son of God?
**It must be no, otherwise he wouldn’t have even tried.

Chaldean Rite,

That is a very nice thought that one can ask if one’s guardian angel can receive some of the graces. I never thought about it like that. I usually am so thankful that my guardian angel has so much patience and goodwill with putting up with some of my antics. Man how Good God is and loving He is in giving me an angel to watch over me, pray for me, and guide me during this soujourn on earth.

God bless. Thanks for your response.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

Chaldean Rite,

That is a very nice thought that one can ask if one’s guardian angel can receive some of the graces. I never thought about it like that. I usually am so thankful that my guardian angel has so much patience and goodwill with putting up with some of my antics. Man how Good God is and loving He is in giving me an angel to watch over me, pray for me, and guide me during this soujourn on earth.

God bless. Thanks for your response.

Oh yeah, angels are jealous of us because we can:

1. Suffer with our bodies like Jesus did
2. Receive Holy Communion

 

[roselily]

Yes, little one, brothers sisters,

Thank God.

He let our angels watch over us,

Because our good angels are in heaven, and those fallen angels God does not want them.

Yes. I thought there are 7 archangels before God, Michael, Gabriel, Raphael -and many many armys of good angels from heaven. and satan and his fallen angels just over 9000.

**51And he said to him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.’

-John 1:51**

**10 ‘Take care that you do not despise one of these little ones; for, I tell you, in heaven their angels continually see the face of my Father in heaven.

-Matthew 18:10**

Yes. I once have three Archangels medals and I saw one side has words: St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael and I saw anther side has words: pray for us and thought that St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael wants me to pray for them. Afterward I prayed always : God bless St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael !

:angel1::blush:I pray this every day. But now I understand, that it is we should ask St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael pray for us, not that Holy angels want me prayer for them!

 

[Little_One0307]

Yes, little one, brothers sisters,

Thank God.

He let our angels watch over us,

Because our good angels are in heaven, and those fallen angels God does not want them.

Yes. I thought there are 7 archangels before God, Michael, Gabriel, Raphael -and many many armys of good angels from heaven. and satan and his fallen angels just over 9000.

**51And he said to him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.’

-John 1:51**

**10 ‘Take care that you do not despise one of these little ones; for, I tell you, in heaven their angels continually see the face of my Father in heaven.

-Matthew 18:10**

Yes. I once have three Archangels medals and I saw one side has words: St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael and I saw anther side has words: pray for us and thought that St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael wants me to pray for them. Afterward I prayed always : God bless St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael !

:angel1::blush:I pray this every day. But now I understand, that it is we should ask St.Michael, St.Gabriel, St.Raphael pray for us, not that Holy angels want me prayer for them!

I have to say that after Mary our Blessed Mother, my devotions are to the angels, most especially Glorious Quis Ut Dues [St. Michael.]

If I might interject something about the fallen angels. God created them for love, in love, to be in Union with Him and to enjoy the beautific Vision for ever. Yet after their fall, God does not love them any less nor does not want them any less. He still wills them in heaven, but becuase they chose otherwise he, however honors their free will. When I think of the fallen ones, I do pity them and dare I say this I see that they are still ontologically good [as in having being and being created by the One Who is Infinite Love and Goodness.] If I as a mere creature does this, does not our Heavenly Father even do so more than I do? I would venture to say this He, God still looks on them with love, He cannot stop loving, that is contrary to His nature.

I may not be able to pray for their salvation, but I pray for them everyday, that God may show Mercy to them somehow in a way that is beyond my understanding but that he knows. I also entrust them to the Hands of Love because the love and sorrow for them I feel for them is great. My heart is saddned to know that for all eternity they will suffer and suffer and never see the Beautific Vision and be eternally frustrated. I am getting a bit sad typing this, but I wished to share it this morning.

I wonder if there is anyone else out there that feels the same way that I do.

God bless.

 

[Sheadad]

I have to say that after Mary our Blessed Mother, my devotions are to the angels, most especially Glorious Quis Ut Dues [St. Michael.]

If I might interject something about the fallen angels. God created them for love, in love, to be in Union with Him and to enjoy the beautific Vision for ever. Yet after their fall, God does not love them any less nor does not want them any less. He still wills them in heaven, but becuase they chose otherwise he, however honors their free will. When I think of the fallen ones, I do pity them and dare I say this I see that they are still ontologically good [as in having being and being created by the One Who is Infinite Love and Goodness.] If I as a mere creature does this, does not our Heavenly Father even do so more than I do? I would venture to say this He, God still looks on them with love, He cannot stop loving, that is contrary to His nature.

I may not be able to pray for their salvation, but I pray for them everyday, that God may show Mercy to them somehow in a way that is beyond my understanding but that he knows. I also entrust them to the Hands of Love because the love and sorrow for them I
feel for them is great. My heart is saddned to know that for all eternity they will suffer and
suffer and never see the Beautific Vision and be eternally frustrated. I am getting a bit sad
typing this, but I wished to share it this morning.

I wonder if there is anyone else out there that feels the same way that I do.

God bless.

My thoughts are that the angels had a similar version of life as man. The two heavenly bodies made up in the end of angels and man reflect and complete the perfect fullness of God’s love. This time of trial for the angels allowed them the freedom to know him and love him without having the same experience of man but one wholly and fully unique to their spiritual existence. This then proceeds and was realized outside of our known time and chronological order of creation. Angels that in the completion of their immense trial resulted in some falling as they turned away (result as we understand it because the elect angels were predestined to become in part, a fraction of the heavenly bodies to exist in
eternity). This trial was immense compared to ours because of the superior intellect they posses as well as their spiritual functiontionality gives them a completely different and more powerful existance including a unified language, rapid motion in and out of material and spiritual realms. Thereby preparing them for the ultimate second phase of their destiny, that which either compells them to either tempt and work towards the distruction of man or the protection and facilitation of Gods will towards man. This leads us to the conclusion that the first phase of existence of the angels was fully necessary in that it accomplished separating those that were predestined to be holy hosts for mankind from those who would work to conversely accomplish just the opposite in man and help to separate him from eternity. Those men separated from eternity then will justly be tormented and be “linked” for eternity with their evil brethren in God’s creation of willed creatures. But for us, to shed some positive light, our union with the heavenly hosts is a complete and utterly majestic existence that goes beyond our concept of happiness. The various levels of angels coincide with the levels of man’s accomplished works (when I say works, I mean those that are upheld in complete love and devotion to Christ). This strength of holiness in certain men coupled with the gifts and talents utilized on earth sets some men apart from one another to complete the various stages of existence in eternity with men and angels as a whole submitting to Christ and Christ ultimately submitting to the father, in other words however, since the Holy Spirit is the ultimate facilitator God’s will and exists in oneness with Christ and God, there is in the end the representation of the three in one, God, angels and men.

Just my thoughts, feel free to tear it apart if you like.

Ps; no way Satan knew Christ was the messiah, God reveals only that which he chooses to angels, therefore “no one knows the day nor the hour”. Once he realized though that he was about to be crushed by Christ’s ressurection (I say this because it emcompasses all of his accomplished work on earth), he tempts him and knowing that the Jews were waiting for their ultimate king, gives him the option of becoming the ultimate king over every land, etc… We see this and say, “well of course Christ would reject that from the likes of Satan”, but not so fast, there was pure genius there. First of all, it was a very intelligent temptation, if Christ had accepted he would have put away all of the defeat he would suffer over the next three years, and at the same time, become a beloved king to Gods Chosen ones who had special favor and needed a long awaited redeemer. Satan then would be in his glory, as he knew scripture and was fully aware of the prophesy and would have sucessfully derailed God’s plan. However, thanks be to God, this was the true Christ, the one well prepared for his necessary work and one because he had the spirit of God on his side was able to sidestep this land mine.

 

[Nicea325]

Morning All,

I came across this Scripture passage and was pretty dumbfounded by it. I have read in some thoughts the Church Fathers said that the angels were tested in that they saw the Incarnation somehow, and yet this does not seem to fit with this verse.

Another question to consider, if the Angels did see the Incarnation when they were tested, why did Satan not do more to stop Jesus? Did Satan know that Jesus was the Son of God?

So what or how were the angels tested?

I am going to stop asking questions and wait for answers on this one.

I actually have some books on angels,of course from official Catholic teachings. I will give you the sources soon-okay?

 

[Little_One0307]

I actually have some books on angels,of course from official Catholic teachings. I will give you the sources soon-okay?

Nicea325,

I will be looking forward to it. Thank you for taking the time in doing so.

God bless.

 

[Little_One0307]

Sheadad,

First and foremost I wish to thank you for sharing with me several insights.

I like how you said the levels of angels has to do with the levels of man’s accomplished works. I did not know that each class has a function, I am still learning so much about the angels.

Everything you said lines up with Catholic teaching in so far as I can tell.

Yes Thank God that Christ was the Messiah. Can you imagine living in a world for 2000+ years still with no hope, I cannot. The thought is quite disturbing and sad.

God bless you.

 

[Sheadad]

Sheadad,

First and foremost I wish to thank you for sharing with me several insights.

I like how you said the levels of angels has to do with the levels of man’s accomplished works. I did not know that each class has a function, I am still learning so much about the angels.

Everything you said lines up with Catholic teaching in so far as I can tell.

Yes Thank God that Christ was the Messiah. Can you imagine living in a world for 2000+ years still with no hope, I cannot. The thought is quite disturbing and sad.

God bless you.

Thank you for the kind comments. These are things that I have worked on for a while, and am constantly reading the CCC and understanding scripturally how it all fits together. St. Paul eludes to men coming with Christ to judge those fallen, there is so much to consider but sometimes what isn’t said tells us what is meant. For example, knowing the angels are a superior intellegent creation, and a creation with the ability to fall, means that an angel has thought, reason and is capable of love. He may in the end choose the love of self over God, and obviously some did. Of course it had to be that way though, so that we might fit into the void created to make that completeness in heaven.

Ps; to your comment about Christ. I think one of the main objections to the faith is “how could your God do this or allow that?”. From a Catholic viewpoint, even we can question God sometimes, but that answer to our fears lies in exactly what you said above. God may allow temporal things to happen here and there that are certainly devistating to us at times, but he never left us without the possibility of salvation. Abraham was found righteous without the knowledge of the law, so I deduce others living in a state of Christlike love and charity. The law then brought into the fold Gods will revealed, and although it was tough, it would still allow for men to fall within the limits of Gods mercy. Then of course, Christ is born, lives within the law and keeps it perfectly as if to allow us an example that Gods moral law will never expire, his covenant can never be revoked with his Chosen ones, however we as Gentiles become “grafted in”, thank you Lord. Only through the redemptive work of Christ are we then allowed to also receive his mercy and in humility appear before his son to be our mediator to the father. We weren’t left alone for one minute, starting with God making skins for Adam and Eve to wear, and ending with God clothing us with his all encompassing light of salvation.

God bless.