1 Peter 13

[Eryximachus]

I have been reading that this forum in general preaches the heresy that 1 Peter 13 is not doctrinal, most specifically the commandment that wives are to submit to the authority of their husbands is not an absolute requirement.

Considering the Church has regularly discussed over the past few thousand years how both Jesus and Mary submitted to the will of Joseph, it seems peculiar to me that this very strict command should be discarded so easily. This is particularly true given the vast epidemic of divorce.

What is this forum’s official stance on this issue?

 

[TimothyH]

The first letter of Peter only has five chapters.

-Tim-

 

[powerofk]

The first letter of Peter only has five chapters.

-Tim-

Not only that, but that particular quotation comes from, I believe, Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians.

Regardless, I think it’s more that “wives submitting to their husband’s authority” is easily misinterpreted, and quite often taken out of context. It does not give husbands the authority to abuse their wives or berate their wives or keep their wives out of decision-making. Unfortunately, taking this verse out of context has been used by men as an excuse to abuse their wives. This verse must be taken in the full context - immediatedly following it, it says, “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the Church.” This actually is an even stricter requirement - we husbands are required to love our wives completely sacrificially - their needs and wants are to be more important than our own, and we must make our wives second only to God on our priority list.

In fact, the verse about wives submitting to their husbands actually means for wives to trust that their husbands love them unconditionally and sacrificially, and that we husbands have the best intersts of our wives at heart. The submission that this calls for is a submission of trust - not an acceptance of abuse.

 

[GratefulFred]

I fully agree with POWEROFK.

See also Ephesians 5: 21-33.

This passage compares the proper relationship between a LOVING husband and a LOVING wife to the relationship of Christ to His Church.

It is clear that Christ loves His Church and has never and would never do anything to harm His Church. Others have, but not Christ. In return, the Church is to respond to Christ’s love by loving Him.

The same command is for husbands and wives. Men protect and provide for their wives and children and in return wives and children are to love the loving husband and father.

---

The “forum” is where lay Catholics, mostly, share their understanding. There is nothing “official” about our views. The official view comes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and Papal Encyclicals, and other established Church authority.

Yes, one can read that Mary and Jesus were obedient to Joseph, but note that Joseph did not abuse his earthly authority.

Because the whole law is based on LOVE, as is Ephesians 5 and other places, it is an inappropriate interpretation that wives must absolutely be obedient in all things. For instance, if a husband wants her to commit crime she need not obey.

Husbands are not to lord it over wives. Rather, husbands are to love wives, and lead them on right paths because of that love.

 

[TimothyH]

I found it. It is 1 Peter 3, not 13.

**Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands, so that some, though they do not obey the word, may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, **(1 Peter 3:1)

The mystery of the sacrament of marriage is that it mirrors the mystery of the Trinity. With that in mind, men are supposed to be willing to die for their wives as Christ died for the Church.

The word submissive is hupotasso - not just yielding to authority but enthusiastic service, a preference for the will of another over your own. We are all supposed to be submissive - we are all supposed to prefer the will of others over our own will. We do this to imitate Christ who said, “Not my will but thy will be done” to the Father.

-Tim-

 

[Nan_S]

The first letter of Peter only has five chapters.

-Tim-

Not only that, but that particular quotation comes from, I believe, Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians.

The OP means 1 Peter 3:1-7

Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior.

Your adornment should not be an external one: braiding the hair, wearing gold jewelry, or dressing in fine clothes, but rather the hidden character of the heart, expressed in the imperishable beauty of a gentle and calm disposition, which is precious in the sight of God.

For this is also how the holy women who hoped in God once used to adorn themselves and were subordinate to their husbands; thus Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him “lord.” You are her children when you do what is good and fear no intimidation.

Likewise, you husbands should live with your wives in understanding, showing honor to the weaker female sex, since we are joint heirs of the gift of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

 

[chefmomster2]

I have been reading that this forum in general preaches the heresy that 1 Peter 13 is not doctrinal,

Where? **Please specify an example **of someone committing the “heresy” of suggesting such a thing so that we can address it specifically. The Church absolutely holds that the bible is unerring.

The verse is not a “commandment”. That is a specific term applying to the OT Commandments and the Great Commandment in the NT. It is however a true teaching from the scriptures.

Considering the Church has regularly discussed over the past few thousand years how both Jesus and Mary submitted to the will of Joseph, it seems peculiar to me that this very strict command should be discarded so easily. This is particularly true given the vast epidemic of divorce.

It has not been discarded. It is preached every year in on the feast of the Holy Family. How is this related to the divorce rate?

What is this forum’s official stance on this issue?

This forum, so far as I know, has no official stance of its own. It is a forum, not an official arm of the Church.

This is a passage containing the verse from the most recent revision of the New American Bible published in 2011. It has been fully sanctioned by the Pope and reflects the teaching of the Church on these verses.

It does state that a woman should be subordinate to the husband, but that is not the full meaning of the passage. It describes the mutual love and respect that is required in marriage. If the man truly loves the woman as Christ loved the Church, she will willingly respect his position in the family. If the woman respects her husband this will strengthen his love for her and he will lead the family with the cherishing love that Christ has for the Church. They complement and complete each other.

EPHESIANS 5:
Wives and Husbands.
21** Be subordinate to one another **out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
28 So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,
30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

• [5:21–33] The apostle exhorts married Christians to a strong mutual love. Holding with Gn 2:24 that marriage is a divine institution (Eph 5:31), Paul sees Christian marriage as taking on a new meaning symbolic of the intimate relationship of love between Christ and the church. The wife should serve her husband in the same spirit as that of the church’s service to Christ (Eph 5:22, 24), and the husband should care for his wife with the devotion of Christ to the church (Eph 5:25–30). Paul gives to the Genesis passage its highest meaning in the light of the union of Christ and the church, of which Christlike loyalty and devotion in Christian marriage are a clear reflection (Eph 5:31–33).

 

[chefmomster2]

The OP means 1 Peter 3:1-7

Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives’ conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior.

Your adornment should not be an external one: braiding the hair, wearing gold jewelry, or dressing in fine clothes, but rather the hidden character of the heart, expressed in the imperishable beauty of a gentle and calm disposition, which is precious in the sight of God.

For this is also how the holy women who hoped in God once used to adorn themselves and were subordinate to their husbands; thus Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him “lord.” You are her children when you do what is good and fear no intimidation.

Likewise, you husbands should live with your wives in understanding, showing honor to the weaker female sex, since we are joint heirs of the gift of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.

Here are the notes from that reading:

• [3:1–6] The typical marital virtues of women of the ancient world, obedience, reverence, and chastity (1 Pt 3:1–2), are outlined here by the author, who gives them an entirely new motivation: Christian wives are to be virtuous so that they may be instrumental in the conversion of their husbands. In imitation of holy women in the past (1 Pt 3:5) they are to cultivate the interior life (1 Pt 3:4) instead of excessive concern with their appearance (1 Pt 3:3).
• [3:7] Husbands who do not respect their wives will have as little success in prayer as those who, according to Paul, have no love: their prayers will be “a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal” (1 Cor 13:1). Consideration for others is shown as a prerequisite for effective prayer also in Mt 5:23–24; 1 Cor 11:20–22; Jas 4:3. After all, whatever the social position of women in the world and in the family, they are equal recipients of the gift of God’s salvation./B] Paul is very clear on this point, too (see 1 Cor 11:11–12; Gal 3:28).

 

[BeingSaved]

Not only that, but that particular quotation comes from, I believe, Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians.

Regardless, I think it’s more that “wives submitting to their husband’s authority” is easily misinterpreted, and quite often taken out of context. It does not give husbands the authority to abuse their wives or berate their wives or keep their wives out of decision-making. Unfortunately, taking this verse out of context has been used by men as an excuse to abuse their wives. This verse must be taken in the full context - immediatedly following it, it says, “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the Church.” This actually is an even stricter requirement - we husbands are required to love our wives completely sacrificially - their needs and wants are to be more important than our own, and we must make our wives second only to God on our priority list.

In fact, the verse about wives submitting to their husbands actually means for wives to trust that their husbands love them unconditionally and sacrificially, and that we husbands have the best intersts of our wives at heart. The submission that this calls for is a submission of trust - not an acceptance of abuse.

wow, what you wrote is so full of wisdom and understanding,…
1, you have to know and understand the whole picture that is presented, and to do so you have to 2. have all the scripture that applies to that particular topic, and sum them up.
then 3. they have to be rightly divided in the Spirit of Christ, with His illumination

 

[bmonk]

Where? **Please specify an example **of someone committing the “heresy” of suggesting such a thing so that we can address it specifically. The Church absolutely holds that the bible is unerring.

The verse is not a “commandment”. That is a specific term applying to the OT Commandments and the Great Commandment in the NT. It is however a true teaching from the scriptures.

It has not been discarded. It is preached every year in on the feast of the Holy Family. How is this related to the divorce rate?

This forum, so far as I know, has no official stance of its own. It is a forum, not an official arm of the Church.

This is a passage containing the verse from the most recent revision of the New American Bible published in 2011. It has been fully sanctioned by the Pope and reflects the teaching of the Church on these verses.

It does state that a woman should be subordinate to the husband, but that is not the full meaning of the passage. It describes the mutual love and respect that is required in marriage. If the man truly loves the woman as Christ loved the Church, she will willingly respect his position in the family. If the woman respects her husband this will strengthen his love for her and he will lead the family with the cherishing love that Christ has for the Church. They complement and complete each other.

EPHESIANS 5:
Wives and Husbands.
21** Be subordinate to one another **out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body.
24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her
26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word,
27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.
28 So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church,
30 because we are members of his body.
31 “For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”
32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.
33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

• [5:21–33] The apostle exhorts married Christians to a strong mutual love. Holding with Gn 2:24 that marriage is a divine institution (Eph 5:31), Paul sees Christian marriage as taking on a new meaning symbolic of the intimate relationship of love between Christ and the church. The wife should serve her husband in the same spirit as that of the church’s service to Christ (Eph 5:22, 24), and the husband should care for his wife with the devotion of Christ to the church (Eph 5:25–30). Paul gives to the Genesis passage its highest meaning in the light of the union of Christ and the church, of which Christlike loyalty and devotion in Christian marriage are a clear reflection (Eph 5:31–33).

!

I thought of those last passages from Ephesians too! Yes–wives should be submissive to the authority of their husbands, as the Church submits to Christ–but in turn the husband has an equally grave obligation, to lay down his life for his wife, as Christ lays down his life for the Church and serves her in all humility and obedience. Neither side has an easy task. It is only if they are utterly committed to each other, and devoted to the grace of marriage, that it is possible.

 

[BeingSaved]

We have such a beautiful heritage in Christian marriage, bible teachings are full of the beauty of holiness in instructing the man and the woman. God is a genius, and His Book pours this out to those who follow it.