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Giver
Guest
(1 Peter 2:9) “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.”
1 Peter 2:9) says Christians are a royal priesthood,why do we need to ordain priest?
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Lazerlike42
Guest
Giver said:
Because Christ wanted us to. The Apostles are ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19). Now ambassadors in the secular world are people who act in the place of the king, speak for the king, negotiate for the king, make deals for the king, etc. The Apostles, bishops, and priests are people who act in the place of the King, speak for the King, etc.
The word translated as ambassadors in 2 Cor. 5:19 is the verb form of the word presbyters, the word from which we get the term “priest.” Presbyters are literally ambassadors for Christ.
We know that these presbyters have special abilities. In James 5:14-15, James instructs us that if anyone among us is sick, we must call the presbyters of the Church and they will pray over the person and the person will be forgiven. There is a priesthood of all believers, but if there were no special ministerial priesthood, why must we call the presbyters? If the priesthoof we all posess is enough, why can’t we just do it ourselves?
The only way to understand what is meant by a priesthood of all believers is to understand the ancient Hebraic concept of the priesthood of the firstborn son. Before the time of Moses, all firstborn sons were consecrated as priests to God. With the sin of the golden calf, this priesthood was taken away. In Christ, it is restored. However, as we are all in Christ, we are all firstborn sons, and we are all priests.
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I_A
Guest
Check out the Catechism section about Holy Orders, it really helped me.
We are a royal priesthood, a holy race. As the preist offers the bread and wine, we offer our spiritual sacrifices throughout the week, the givng a friend whos car broke down a ride, being extra patient with roomates, etc. But God choose to set for his royal priesthood special ministers to support and help his people. You frequently hear about “priests in the line of Malchezidek” (sp?) These are our priests commonly called “priests,” though all are priests, in a different manner.
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PRIEST3.htm
We are a royal priesthood, a holy race. As the preist offers the bread and wine, we offer our spiritual sacrifices throughout the week, the givng a friend whos car broke down a ride, being extra patient with roomates, etc. But God choose to set for his royal priesthood special ministers to support and help his people. You frequently hear about “priests in the line of Malchezidek” (sp?) These are our priests commonly called “priests,” though all are priests, in a different manner.
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PRIEST3.htm
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rwoehmke
Guest
It seems to me that a reading of all the epistles would lead one to the conclusion that yes we all belong to the Holy Nation and are priests. prophets, and kings as a result of our Baptism. However it is also obvious that some of the baptized males were called to be ordained as deacons and presbyters(commonly called priests and bishops today) to serve the Church in a special capacity. This office was not bestowed in Baptism, but was a result of a further laying on of hands or what today is called the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
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John_Henry
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KBarn
Guest
Peter is quoting Exodus when he says that. Israel was a nation of priests, a royal priesthood as well. But it is clear that they had a consecrated class of priests who were ministers and mediators. Such a statement, you see, does not rule out the possibility of ordained priesthood.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Giver (or Robert),
C’mon, you know this one. In Israel there were three levels of priests. There was the High Priest, the Levitical priests (who performed the sacrifices), and the nation of priests (“You are a nation of priests”).
In the New Israel, there is a High Priest (Jesus Christ), Sacramental Priests (who offer up the Sacrifice at Mass), and the nation of priests (which we all are).
I would have thought He told you that already.
Notworthy
C’mon, you know this one. In Israel there were three levels of priests. There was the High Priest, the Levitical priests (who performed the sacrifices), and the nation of priests (“You are a nation of priests”).
In the New Israel, there is a High Priest (Jesus Christ), Sacramental Priests (who offer up the Sacrifice at Mass), and the nation of priests (which we all are).
I would have thought He told you that already.
Notworthy
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awfulthings9
Guest
Protestants today claim: “We are all priests, why do you Catholic exalt your priests above the priesthood of the people?”
Israelites in Numbers 16:3 say, "You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them; why when do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?”
Hmmm. Very similar.
Protestants today point to 1 Peter 2:9, which claims, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.”
Israelites would have considered Exodus 19:6, which reads, “And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.”
Hmmm. Very similar.
Catholics today point to the fact that, even with the priesthood of the people, Christ established ministerial priests (presbyters, bishops).
Israelites recognized that even with the “kingdom of priests”, God established a priestly tribe in the Levitical priesthood.
Hmmm. Very similar.
Good argument Giver, it is, afterall, thousands of years old.
Israelites in Numbers 16:3 say, "You have gone too far! For all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them; why when do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?”
Hmmm. Very similar.
Protestants today point to 1 Peter 2:9, which claims, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.”
Israelites would have considered Exodus 19:6, which reads, “And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.”
Hmmm. Very similar.
Catholics today point to the fact that, even with the priesthood of the people, Christ established ministerial priests (presbyters, bishops).
Israelites recognized that even with the “kingdom of priests”, God established a priestly tribe in the Levitical priesthood.
Hmmm. Very similar.
Good argument Giver, it is, afterall, thousands of years old.
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thistle
Guest
Despite repeated requests to Giver to address my point he hasn’t so if everyone will forgive me I will repeat it again and hope that Giver will comment.
Following a longer discussion Giver indicated he would never do anyone any harm under any circumstances because that’s not what Jesus teaches.
I asked him if he would stand idly by and not do anything and let his family be attacked and murdered. This was his reply:
**QUOTE
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
Jesus said (John 14:21) “anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”
(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”
The will of the Father in Heaven is to love our enemies, and I would do nothing that would displease Him. I trust God, if He didn’t want my family to die, they wouldn’t die, and if they were to die they wood, no matter what I tried to do. What most everyone can’t seem to understand is: (Matthew 6:9) “Our father in heaven, may your name be holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven**.”
UNQUOTE
My comment and question to him was this:
That’s really sad that you would standly idly by and not lift a finger to stop your family being murdered especially when Jesus said in John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.
The original greek words “for one’s friends” mean for “those whom one loves”. Are saying you don’t love your family enough to be willing to die trying to protect them? Are you saying you will not do what Jesus expects us to do in dying, if necessary, to protect loved ones?
So Giver, are you saying Jesus lied when he told us about laying down our lives for our loved ones or is this a different Jesus from the one you are listening to??
Following a longer discussion Giver indicated he would never do anyone any harm under any circumstances because that’s not what Jesus teaches.
I asked him if he would stand idly by and not do anything and let his family be attacked and murdered. This was his reply:
**QUOTE
(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”
Jesus said (John 14:21) “anybody who receives my commandments and keeps them will be one who loves me; and anybody who loves me will be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and show myself to him.”
(Matthew 10:37-39)”Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.”
The will of the Father in Heaven is to love our enemies, and I would do nothing that would displease Him. I trust God, if He didn’t want my family to die, they wouldn’t die, and if they were to die they wood, no matter what I tried to do. What most everyone can’t seem to understand is: (Matthew 6:9) “Our father in heaven, may your name be holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven**.”
UNQUOTE
My comment and question to him was this:
That’s really sad that you would standly idly by and not lift a finger to stop your family being murdered especially when Jesus said in John 15:13 “No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”.
The original greek words “for one’s friends” mean for “those whom one loves”. Are saying you don’t love your family enough to be willing to die trying to protect them? Are you saying you will not do what Jesus expects us to do in dying, if necessary, to protect loved ones?
So Giver, are you saying Jesus lied when he told us about laying down our lives for our loved ones or is this a different Jesus from the one you are listening to??
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kleary
Guest
Giver said:
(1 Timothy 5:17) “Let the PRIESTS that rule well, be esteemed worthy of double honour: especially they who labour in the word and doctrine”
(James 5:14) “Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the Church…”
(Luke 22:19) "This is my body …- do this for a commemoration of me.
Enough for me to show me there are priests in the Church different than myself a mere layman in the priesthood of the layity.
Ken
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Giver
Guest
(2 Corinthians 5:19-20) “In other words, God in Christ was reconciling the world to himself, not holding men’s faults against them, and we are ambassadors for Christ; it is as though God were appealing through us, and the appeal that we make in Christ’s name is: to be reconciled to God.”
Paul was saying we are ambassadors for Christ that included the people he wrote the letter.
Also if Paul wanted to tell them that some of them were priest he had a word for priest and I am sure it wasn’t ambassador or presbyter.
(1 Corinthians 12:27-30) “Now you together are Christ’s body; but each of you is a different part of it. In the Church, God has given the first place to apostles, the second to prophets, the third to teachers; after them, miracles, and after them the gift of healing; helpers, good leaders, those with many languages. Are all of them apostles, or all of them prophets, or all of them teachers? Do all speak strange languages, and all interpret them?” Again Paul didn’t mention priest.
James said to call elders of the church (James 5:14) “If one of you is ill, he should send for the elders of the church” You should notice he didn’t say priest, and he didn’t even say presiding elder.
(1 Timothy 3:1-13) Talks about Elders and Deacons, but they wer not called priest or was there any mention of any ordination to a priesthood.
Yes, the special abilities you talk about in James are the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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thistle
Guest
GIVER why don’t you respond to post #9. You keep moving threads to avoid it!!
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jpy15026
Guest
Only God can forgive sins, Scripture says so, and the Catholic Church teaches that Jesus gave this power to the twelve and through Apostolic succession, and only through apostolic succession, can I* know* that my sins are absolved by my Priest in the most Holy Sacrament of Reconciliation when he says those precious words “I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” That’s when I know for sure I am truly forgiven of all my sins, Jesus said so. Thank you Lord for this most precious gift you gave us,the Priesthoood.
Mark 2:10-11
10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth”—11 he said to the paralytic, “I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.”
Luke 5:21
21 Then the scribes and Pharisees began to ask themselves, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who but God alone can forgive sins?”
Matt 16:19
“I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven”
John 20:21- 23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Mark 2:10-11
10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth”—11 he said to the paralytic, “I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.”
Luke 5:21
21 Then the scribes and Pharisees began to ask themselves, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who but God alone can forgive sins?”
Matt 16:19
“I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven”
John 20:21- 23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
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Tonks40
Guest
Sorry, Giver, the biblical evidence given to you is irrefutable, and thus, you once again give YOUR OWN interpretation.
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Giver
Guest
Wow! You are right no matter what the evidence is to the contrary. Don’t confuse you with any evidence, right?
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thistle
Guest
How about post #9 Giver?
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JaneFrances
Guest
In 1 Peter 2:9, St. Peter is quoting directly from Exodus 19:6: “You shall be to me a kingdom of priests, a holy nation. This is what you must tell the Israelites.” Here we see God foreshadowing in the Israelites what will be revealed through Jesus Christ in the New Jerusalem, the Church. God is telling the Israelites that they are a “kingdom of priests” in that they are consecrated to God in a special way as a whole people, a nation. This royal priesthood of believers is meant to refer to the whole nation who participates in the liturgical sacrifices of the Jewish faith, even though the actual offering of the sacrifices was the exclusive job of the ministerial Aaronic (Levitical) priests. This is the very same idea in the New Testament sense. St. Peter reminds the people of God that they are a royal priesthood. We are meant to be active participants in Christ’s once and for all sacrifice through His Body, the Church. The priesthood of all Christians does not discount the ordained Christian priesthood in the very same way that the “kingdom of priests” does not discount the special ministry of the Aaronic priests.
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Aaron_I
Guest
Giver said:
Frankly, Giver, I see this verse as pointing to the priesthood. If nothing else, it asserts that there are objectively different levels of rank within the Church. So even though we may all be priests, there are different ranks associated with that.
You seem to be resting your case on the fact the word priest isn’t used. What do you think the apostles were? If nothing else, this is among several verses that show the authority of the apostles. The Bible is also quite clear that apostolic office is handed down to successors. So tell us, Giver, where are the apostolic offices today? Surely God wouldn’t have built up the apostolic offices on a whim and then abandoned them when he got bored. It occurs to me that there must currently exist apostles in today’s true church. The role of apostle also can’t be limited to teacher or prophet because they are explicitly defined as having a higher dignity. The protestant churches have no higher rank than that of teacher, and that itself is enough for me to see their utter deficiency.
Oh, and great post awfulthings9. I’d love to see Giver try to address it.
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
Hi Giver, why do we need professional doctors when we all as children have mothers who care for us when we are sick?
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Giver
Guest
Aaron I.:
(1 Corinthians 4:19) “but I will be visiting you soon, the Lord willing, and then I shall want to know not what these self-important people have to say, but what they can do, since the kingdom of God is not just words, it is power.”
What power have any of the bishops ever demonstrated? I have met several bishops, and have never heard tell that any of them walked in any spiritual power.
Now tell me if the Holy Spirit chooses Catholic priest, then those priest must have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. If someone has the Holy Spirit how could they commit the terrible sins that some have and are committing? If they didn’t have the Holy Spirit, how then did they get chosen?
Yes the apostles were priest and so are all Christians. The Holy Spirit gives gifts to those he chooses. The Holy Spirit chooses apostles, prophets, etc. There are powers that come with these gifts. So to know who today’s apostles are we should be looking for people to whom the Holy Spirit has given the gifts.
(1 Corinthians 4:19) “but I will be visiting you soon, the Lord willing, and then I shall want to know not what these self-important people have to say, but what they can do, since the kingdom of God is not just words, it is power.”
What power have any of the bishops ever demonstrated? I have met several bishops, and have never heard tell that any of them walked in any spiritual power.
Now tell me if the Holy Spirit chooses Catholic priest, then those priest must have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. If someone has the Holy Spirit how could they commit the terrible sins that some have and are committing? If they didn’t have the Holy Spirit, how then did they get chosen?
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