F
fantrl
Guest
Can anyone explain to me 1 sam 15:3 and how to reconcile that with the all-loving God embraced in Christianity?
- Status
C
coleraine
Guest
it wasnt being said by god so…
F
fantrl
Guest
In verse 2 :it wasnt being said by god so…
This is what the LORD of hosts has to say:
C
coleraine
Guest
oh sorry. well if the people in question were evil then what then is the problem with this? evil being in alliance with the evil one.
F
fantrl
Guest
Any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities of extensive areas along with their population is a crime against God and man himself. It merits unequivocal and unhesitating condemnation.
gaudium et spes #80
gaudium et spes #80
C
coleraine
Guest
im not sure…ill get church militant in here
F
fantrl
Guest
Thanks
T
tobinatorstark
Guest
Here is from the Haydock Bible Commentary. Sorry if this commentary offends anyone
Ver. 2. Reckoned up. God speaks in a human manner, as if he had been reading the history of ancient times, Exodus xvii. 14. (Menochius) — The Amalecites had treated Israel with inhumanity, above 400 years before. God’s vengeance is often slow, but only so much the more terrible. (Calmet) — Hebrew pakadti, I have visited, or will punish and remember.
Ver. 3. Destroy, as a thing accursed. (Haydock) — Child. The great master of life and death (who cuts off one half of mankind whilst they are children) has been pleased sometimes to ordain that children should be put to the sword, in detestation of the crimes of their parents, and that they might not live to follow the same wicked ways. But without such ordinance of God, it is not allowable in any wars, how just soever, to kill children. (Challoner) — The Israelites were now to execute God’s orders with blind obedience, as he cannot be guilty of injustice. — Nor covet…his, is omitted in Hebrew, &c. (Calmet) — Amalec is stricken when the flesh is chastised—He is destroyed when we repress evil thoughts. (St. Gregory) (Worthington)
Ver. 2. Reckoned up. God speaks in a human manner, as if he had been reading the history of ancient times, Exodus xvii. 14. (Menochius) — The Amalecites had treated Israel with inhumanity, above 400 years before. God’s vengeance is often slow, but only so much the more terrible. (Calmet) — Hebrew pakadti, I have visited, or will punish and remember.
Ver. 3. Destroy, as a thing accursed. (Haydock) — Child. The great master of life and death (who cuts off one half of mankind whilst they are children) has been pleased sometimes to ordain that children should be put to the sword, in detestation of the crimes of their parents, and that they might not live to follow the same wicked ways. But without such ordinance of God, it is not allowable in any wars, how just soever, to kill children. (Challoner) — The Israelites were now to execute God’s orders with blind obedience, as he cannot be guilty of injustice. — Nor covet…his, is omitted in Hebrew, &c. (Calmet) — Amalec is stricken when the flesh is chastised—He is destroyed when we repress evil thoughts. (St. Gregory) (Worthington)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Okay, so what’s your point?
Does GAUDIUM ET SPES apply to Saul thousands of year before it was written? How does that work?
If you choose to apply it this way then what will you say about the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed them directly.
Where did you get this argument from? It sounds like something that atheists might try to use.
Gaudium et Spes was written in response to weapons of mass destruction in 1965.
To date only one nation has used nuclear weapons against a civilian population, (twice).
Does GAUDIUM ET SPES apply to Saul thousands of year before it was written? How does that work?
If you choose to apply it this way then what will you say about the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? God destroyed them directly.
Where did you get this argument from? It sounds like something that atheists might try to use.
Gaudium et Spes was written in response to weapons of mass destruction in 1965.
To date only one nation has used nuclear weapons against a civilian population, (twice).
F
fantrl
Guest
F
fantrl
Guest
From looking up the Church’s view on war in the CCC.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
If God commands something like that, there is a very great difference between that and a nation like the U.S. nuking two Japanese cities destroying 66% of Hiroshima and 40% of Nagasaki and killing 140,000 men, women and children in Hiroshima, and 70,000 in Nagasaki.
HUGE difference…
What next, we decide that God is unjust to send people to hell?
P.S. This isn’t an Sacred Scripture question…it’s Moral theology.
F
fantrl
Guest
Please just answer the question or don’t respond at all.
J
Jack_245814
Guest
“The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.”
What more can I say? God gave you life and if anybody in the universe has the right to take life away (or command that it be taken away) it’s God right? The destruction of the Amalekites was part of God’s plan, and God is completely good. There are three reasons I can think of for the ordered genocide off the top of my head that would fit well - though of course who can really tell why he did it?
a.) The Amalekites were a completely evil people.
b.) The Lord wanted to prove to surrounding nations that the One True God was in Israel by causing a remarkable military victory (a similar reason is explicitly given in Exodus when God causes Pharaoh to keep the Israelites enslaved until all the plagues have come, as well as in several other similar tales).
c.) The Lord wanted to demonstrate to the Israelites that Saul was a king chosen by God by causing a remarkable military victory.
Or probably some combination of all three.
We’re not necessarily able to divine the reasoning behind every single one of God’s actions, but we know that they’re good.
I know that this is hardly a satisfying answer if you’re an atheist trying to challenge our faith, but it’s what we believe
P.S.: If he wanted to wipe out the Amalekites for their wickedness and there were some good people among them, he likely would have caused their escape in some way, just like in the story of Sodom & Gomorrah (though there’s no reason that he had to if he didn’t want to, it’s just an idea).
What more can I say? God gave you life and if anybody in the universe has the right to take life away (or command that it be taken away) it’s God right? The destruction of the Amalekites was part of God’s plan, and God is completely good. There are three reasons I can think of for the ordered genocide off the top of my head that would fit well - though of course who can really tell why he did it?
a.) The Amalekites were a completely evil people.
b.) The Lord wanted to prove to surrounding nations that the One True God was in Israel by causing a remarkable military victory (a similar reason is explicitly given in Exodus when God causes Pharaoh to keep the Israelites enslaved until all the plagues have come, as well as in several other similar tales).
c.) The Lord wanted to demonstrate to the Israelites that Saul was a king chosen by God by causing a remarkable military victory.
Or probably some combination of all three.
We’re not necessarily able to divine the reasoning behind every single one of God’s actions, but we know that they’re good.
I know that this is hardly a satisfying answer if you’re an atheist trying to challenge our faith, but it’s what we believe
P.S.: If he wanted to wipe out the Amalekites for their wickedness and there were some good people among them, he likely would have caused their escape in some way, just like in the story of Sodom & Gomorrah (though there’s no reason that he had to if he didn’t want to, it’s just an idea).
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Just did. What’s wrong now?
J
Jack_245814
Guest
The Church and God also command us not to kill, but God causes people to die all the time. It’s not to say that God is “above morality”, but that God literally defines morality. Part of morality is that God can do some things out of goodness that humans, given their inferior nature, cannot. God can justly kill an innocent person - and does, fairly often, and undoubtedly out of goodness. We cannot. It’s the same in this case. God, out of goodness, directly commanded Saul (through Samuel) to wipe out the Amalekites; it was a “special case.”
F
fantrl
Guest
Wait when did you even sort of answer the original question ?
- Status