1 Tim 2:5 One mediator?

[CarlaOLS]

Hi all -
I was working with a Christian freind on a project which involved a letter from me asking for prayers from non-Catholics. In editing the text, my friend explained that the references to praying to St.Michael and Blessed Mother etc. would not be accepted or understood by most Christians he knew. I had no problem removing the references as reaching these brothers and sisters in Christ with the prayer request was more important, and in that ecumneical spirit I knew Mother and St. Michael would not mind at all.

He even suggested I re-write the St. Michael prayer replacing the Archangel with Jesus name. (Still praying over that one.)

When we spoke about it, he explained that protestants rely on 1Tim 2:5,

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

So what exactly would be the best way to explain Catholic interpretation of the scripture?

 

[PeteVZ]

You asking them to pray is no different than asking St Michael to pray. It is a prayer request. All prayers still go to Jesus whether you make them, your neighbor makes them, a stranger on a message board, or a saint.

It’s like if you worked in a company and had a materials request for the CFO. You could directly take the request to him, or you could ask someone from the finance department who regularly takes requests to the CFO. He knows the process and can make sure all the forms are correct. Also, you could include letters of reference as to why the materials were needed from co workers. Are those co-workers mediators? Or, is the CFO the mediator that can either make the decision or take it to the CEO?

The book of revelation shows the saints bringing prayers before Jesus.

 

[CarlaOLS]

Well I made those type of arguments but I guess I didn’t say they go to Jesus, the one mediator. Many of our prayers wouldn’t sound as if they were addressed to Jesus and that would be a hang-up for them in saying our prayers. Like in the St. Michael prayer we begin by asking him to defend us in battle - they wonder why we wouldn’t just ask Jesus etc. To them we are sinning against the teaching of one mediator by going through a saint.

Can you point out the passages in Revelations? That might help him.

 

[CarlaOLS]

Can you point out the passages in Revelations? That might help him.

WOE cancel that request- I just found a truck load of explanation in old threads on the Ask an Apologist forum.



But I copied like 8 pages worth - whew I’ve got some stufying to do.

 

[PeteVZ]

Revelation 8: 3-4

3
Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
4
The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

 

[PeteVZ]

Well I made those type of arguments but I guess I didn’t say they go to Jesus, the one mediator. Many of our prayers wouldn’t sound as if they were addressed to Jesus and that would be a hang-up for them in saying our prayers. Like in the St. Michael prayer we begin by asking him to defend us in battle - they wonder why we wouldn’t just ask Jesus etc. To them we are sinning against the teaching of one mediator by going through a saint.

Can you point out the passages in Revelations? That might help him.

Asking St Michael to defend us in battle is like asking that guy in finance to make sure I get my pay check on time. It’s his job. Just as we all have roles here on earth, The saints have their particular roles to play in Heaven. Has a protestant ever taken a bus to work? Why didn’t they just ask God to send a firey chariot. I think God is more offended when he gives us the means and we don’t use them.

If my 3 year old wants a glass of milk, she sometimes asks her big brother. He asks me if it’s ok, but if I say yes, he gets it for her. Am I offended by that? He still had to ask me if it was ok to give it to her, just as the saints would have to get approval from God. It allows my son to be a servant to his sister and to me at the same time and shows me that he loves us both. In the same way, Catholics need to remember when asking saints for anything, that God has the final word. When He allows the saints to aid us, they do it for His glory, not their own.

 

[fermat]

I run into this same objection when I talk to most protestants. If I know them well enough I will ask them to pray for me for better understanding. When they say that they will, I pull a confused look and say, ‘Wait a minute…’

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I think the crux of the problem lies in that most nonCatholic Christians don’t believe in the Communion of Saints. They don’t believe that people in heaven can hear the prayer requests of us. Yes, it makes perfect sense to us to pray to Mary and the Saints, it’s just like asking your friends and relatives to pray for you. That would be fine w/ nonCatholics, too, if they in fact believed the Saints could hear us, but they don’t. I don’t know how they answer Revelation. I’ve thown that verse out in the past, but it didn’t seem to do any good (or maybe it did, and they just didn’t want to admit it ).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[CarlaOLS]

These are great answers - more down to earth explanations. Like really asking them to pray and then saying’ Wait a minute but you said…" LOL
and the older brother getting the milk etc…

It’s gold Jerry, gold!

You’re right Ellen they do think that about the saints, but it’s funny, I said to my friend “It’s no different than standing at your granny’s grave and talking to her.” I think he had no problem with a Christian talking to their dead relative, even saying things like, “Granny can you help me out wth that?..”