1 Tim 3:16 - What Does it Mean?

[NoelFitz]

I read in 1 Tim Chapter 3:16:

Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great:
He was revealed in flesh,
Vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,
taken up in glory.

What do you think of this?

Is this essentially an early creed, or liturgical text (Christological hymn), not composed by Paul, but used in the Church.

What doe it mean?

He was revealed in flesh = He was born a man (incarnation). [Collins says this could refer to post-Resurrection appearances. Which is preferred? Could the whole hymn refer to the risen Christ?]

vindicated in spirit = God announced Jesus as “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” [Collins claims this refers to Is 53:!!. ???]

seen by angels = angels were present in Bethlehem when Jesus was born. [possibly human messengers who saw the risen Christ or angels, as seen on the first Easter. ???]

*proclaimed among Gentiles *= Paul and others preached to Gentiles.

believed in throughout the world = believers came from all over the Empire (known world).

taken up in glory = ascended into heaven.

Religion could be considered as devotion, godliness or piety. Are these synonyms or is there a subtle difference between them? If so which is preferred?

Basically my question is what does this verse mean?

 

[NHInsider]

It does read rather like a creed or profession of faith, there are other places Paul quotes hymns or other ritual texts so this could well be one.

What it means seems to be fairly straightforward - the Mystery of our Faith is the Incarnation, Death and Resurrection.

“Godliness” seems to be the preferred translation of eusebias. Not sure what translation you’re using?

 

[NotWorthy]

It does read rather like a creed or profession of faith, there are other places Paul quotes hymns or other ritual texts so this could well be one.

What it means seems to be fairly straightforward - the Mystery of our Faith is the Incarnation, Death and Resurrection.

“Godliness” seems to be the preferred translation of eusebias. Not sure what translation you’re using?

“Devotion” is the translation that the NAB uses.
But as to the meaning of the word, whether it is “devotion, Godliness, or Piety” we should look to the verse before it in context as well.

15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth. 16 Undeniably great is the mystery of devotion, Who was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.

Taken in this context our “devotion” is to God, which would imply that “Godliness” would be an equally acceptable term, but only in a context like this.
For instance, I could have a devotion to the god Baal, but that doesn’t make me godly.

 

[NoelFitz]

NHInsider

Many thanks for your brilliant reply. This means you agree to an extent (with my prejudices)!

It really does seem like a profession of faith.

I like simple explanations (Occham’s Razor), so Incarnation, Death and Resurrection seem fine. BUT…

Seeing it all as a post Resurrection anti-Gnostic polemic seems forced.

So incarnation = revealed.
Death = ?
Resurrrection = taken up in glory.

What about:

Vindicated in spirit,
seen by angels,
proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world,

You prefer Godliness. This seems a Protestant word. I like piety as it seems a nice Catholic and classical Roman word. Jerome uses pietatis.

I usually use the NRSV, but I alsao like the NAB and the NASB.

 

[NoelFitz]

NotWorthy,

I appreciate all your replies to me.

I find it hard to study the Bible without an exchange of ideas. Also your comments are always solid and Catholic.

But are devotion and piety etc. synonyms?

What really would be the difference between devotion and* piet*y here? I do see how religion would have a different nuance.

 

[NotWorthy]

NotWorthy,

I appreciate all your replies to me.

I find it hard to study the Bible without an exchange of ideas. Also your comments are always solid and Catholic.

But are devotion and piety etc. synonyms?

What really would be the difference between devotion and* piet*y here? I do see how religion would have a different nuance.

Devotion “to whom”.

Devotion to God would imply “piety”, for God is Godly. But devotion to a false god or even to something mundane, like making excessive money at any expense (which, in retrospect, would be a false god) would not make one pious.

 

[sonettegarbin]

I read in 1 Tim Chapter 3:16:

What do you think of this?
Basically my question is what does this verse mean?

I think you are quite correct with your summary - this is how I understand 1 Tim 3:16

1TI 3:16 And evidently…

1. Great is the mystery of godliness, a) which was manifested in the flesh, = Jesus Christ ( John 1:14) b) That Christ was offered to the Gentiles a Redeemer and Saviour, whereas before, salvation was of the Jews.
2. was justified in the spirit, - being raised from the dead He was justified in the Spirit, having no sin in Him – His sacrifice was accepted and He rose again for our justification.
3. appeared unto angels, - Angels worshipped him (Heb. 1:6) At His birth, His temptation, His agony, His death, His resurrection and His ascension. Angels ministered to Him
4. hath been preached unto the Gentiles, - Many of the Gentiles welcomed the gospel, which His own, the Jews, rejected.
5. is believed in the world, - All peoples would take Him as their personal Saviour.
6. is taken up in glory. – In His ascension.

Source: Douay Rheims (Catholic)

Godliness is a mystery in all its facets. We should humbly adore it and piously believe it.

New International Version (©1984)
But you even undermine piety and hinder devotion to God.

Douay Rheims
As much as is in thee, thou hast made void fear (piety), and hast taken away prayers (devotion) from before God.

May God protect and be gracious to you.

 

[PJM]

=NoelFitz;6912571]I read in 1 Tim Chapter 3:16:

What do you think of this?

Is this essentially an early creed, or liturgical text (Christological hymn), not composed by Paul, but used in the Church.

What doe it mean?

He was revealed in flesh = He was born a man (incarnation). [Collins says this could refer to post-Resurrection appearances. Which is preferred? Could the whole hymn refer to the risen Christ?]

vindicated in spirit = God announced Jesus as “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” [Collins claims this refers to Is 53:!!. ???]

seen by angels = angels were present in Bethlehem when Jesus was born. [possibly human messengers who saw the risen Christ or angels, as seen on the first Easter. ???]

*proclaimed among Gentiles *= Paul and others preached to Gentiles.

believed in throughout the world = believers came from all over the Empire (known world).

taken up in glory = ascended into heaven.

Religion could be considered as devotion, godliness or piety. Are these synonyms or is there a subtle difference between them? If so which is preferred?

Basically my question is what does this verse mean?

Here is what Haydock’s Catholic Commentary says on the topic:

Ver. 16. “Mystery of piety, meaning the mystery of the incarnation of the Son of God: and so in most Greek copies, and in St. Chrysostom we read, God appeared in the flesh.[6] — Taken up into glory, by Christ’s glorious ascension into heaven. — After having spoken of the grandeur and infallibility of the Church, the apostle takes occasion from it to extol the great mystery of love, the incarnation and redemption of man. By this mystery the Second Person of the blessed Trinity became manifested in the flesh, justifying or proving his divinity by the virtue of the Holy Spirit appearing in his miracles, made known to the Angels, who were his messengers to bear the tidings to man, or assisting spirits to wait upon him, as at the nativity, in the desert, the agony, &c. preached to the world, and at length consummated to the world by his ascension into glory.”

 

[NoelFitz]

sonettegarbin

Thank you.

I think we basically agree.

PJM

Thank you also . I find it hard to relate what you quote directly to this verse.

Are you Irish?

When I was young I used the Fulton Sheen *Sunday Missal. * I used to wonder why he was called after a Fish Market (only joking, sorry)!

 

[PJM]

=NoelFitz;6919643]sonettegarbin

Thank you.

I think we basically agree.

PJM

Thank you also . I find it hard to relate what you quote directly to this verse.

Are you Irish?

When I was young I used the Fulton Sheen *Sunday Missal. * I used to wonder why he was called after a Fish Market (only joking, sorry)!

THANKS,

I love His Excellency Fulton Sheen. His “Life of Christ” is my favorite book next to he Bible and I read in annually.

:irish3::kissme::shamrock2:: WHAT… Who me

Love and prayers, Pat

 

[NoelFitz]

PJM
Off topic!

When I was young, before Vat II, I used Fulton Sheen’s* My Sunday Missal*. In it one was asked to say "My Lord and My God" and *“We beseech you therefore help your servants whom you have redeened with your precious blood” *at the elevations for the host and chalice at Mass. I continue to say these prayers.

 

[PJM]

=NoelFitz;6922711]PJM
Off topic!

When I was young, before Vat II, I used Fulton Sheen’s* My Sunday Missal*. In it one was asked to say "My Lord and My God" and *“We beseech you therefore help your servants whom you have redeened with your precious blood” *at the elevations for the host and chalice at Mass. I continue to say these prayers.

A GREAt lesson well learned and applied.

Thanks for sharing it.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[NotWorthy]

PJM
Off topic!

When I was young, before Vat II, I used Fulton Sheen’s* My Sunday Missal*. In it one was asked to say "My Lord and My God" and *“We beseech you therefore help your servants whom you have redeened with your precious blood” *at the elevations for the host and chalice at Mass. I continue to say these prayers.

I’ve often said similar words (St. Augustine’s Lord shine your Light into the darkness of my soul being one of them).

But recently I heard Dr. James Dobbins say that one of the things we should do is ask God to accept our sacrifice into His. To make them one, so to speak. I’ve never considered this before.

 

[PJM]

=NotWorthy;6924132]I’ve often said similar words (St. Augustine’s Lord shine your Light into the darkness of my soul being one of them).

But recently I heard Dr. James Dobbins say that one of the things we should do is ask God to accept our sacrifice into His. To make them one, so to speak. I’ve never considered this before.

Dr. Dobson is a goodman and a GREAT Christin. I have at times puzzled why he’s not a Catholic.

We ought to thankd God for him an Focus on the Family.

 

[NotWorthy]

Dr. Dobson is a goodman and a GREAT Christin. I have at times puzzled why he’s not a Catholic.

We ought to thankd God for him an Focus on the Family.

Right Church, wrong pew.

Dr. James Dobbins has some Podcasts on I-tunes that are from his adult classes at a Church in Virginia. He’s pretty good.