M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
The bible say’s there is but one mediator Jesus Christ but catholics preach that Mary is a co-mediator. explaination?
- Status
T
threej_lc
Guest
Fun with terminology!
We do not say she is co-mediator. We say she is medatrix of grace. Jesus is the one mediator, but He came into this world through Mary. In fancy terms, Mary is the medium through which Jesus, the source of all grace, comes to us. Therefore, she is the mediatrix of this grace.
Her role as one in which Christ is brought into the world did not cease with the birth of Christ. Rather through her prayers, she plays a unique role in allowing the grace of God to work more fully. For as what St. Paul had just said,
1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. This is good and pleasing to God our savior,
We do not say she is co-mediator. We say she is medatrix of grace. Jesus is the one mediator, but He came into this world through Mary. In fancy terms, Mary is the medium through which Jesus, the source of all grace, comes to us. Therefore, she is the mediatrix of this grace.
Her role as one in which Christ is brought into the world did not cease with the birth of Christ. Rather through her prayers, she plays a unique role in allowing the grace of God to work more fully. For as what St. Paul had just said,
1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. This is good and pleasing to God our savior,
L
LilyM
Guest
Hey Martin. To start with, ‘co-’ is not used in this sense to mean that Mary is in any way equal to Jesus or God. If I write a book together with another person I can call myself ‘co-author’ even if I only write one page and they write the rest of the book.
What this means is that Mary has a special and unique power in regard to interceding for us and bringing our petitions before God - rather like the mother of King Solomon brought petitions before him in the Old Testament. Yes the verse says we have ‘one mediator’ - that doesn’t mean it’s us and God alone. Sometimes we need others (not that we believe that we NEED Mary to pray for us).
As an example: baptisms, marriages, ordinations of ministers are performed through a Bishop, priest or pastor, or other celebrant - at that time the person performing the service acts as a conduit or channel for God’s grace - in fact as a mediator between God and the recipients. Most Christians recognise the absurdity of people attempting to baptise themselves, marry for themselves, ordain themselves, and that we need more than just ‘us and God alone’
for these purposes.
What this means is that Mary has a special and unique power in regard to interceding for us and bringing our petitions before God - rather like the mother of King Solomon brought petitions before him in the Old Testament. Yes the verse says we have ‘one mediator’ - that doesn’t mean it’s us and God alone. Sometimes we need others (not that we believe that we NEED Mary to pray for us).
As an example: baptisms, marriages, ordinations of ministers are performed through a Bishop, priest or pastor, or other celebrant - at that time the person performing the service acts as a conduit or channel for God’s grace - in fact as a mediator between God and the recipients. Most Christians recognise the absurdity of people attempting to baptise themselves, marry for themselves, ordain themselves, and that we need more than just ‘us and God alone’
for these purposes.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Catholic catechism paragraphs 968-970, 2677 Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can trust all our cares and petitions.
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NotWorthy
Guest
She is a co-mediator! We all are co-mediators! Every time I pray for someone else, I am mediating to Jesus on their behalf. What’s wrong with that?
Mary, as part of the Body of Christ, is praying on my behalf in the same way.
Any problems with that?
Notworthy
Mary, as part of the Body of Christ, is praying on my behalf in the same way.
Any problems with that?
Notworthy
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
It does say in the bible which I and I hope you hold sacred that there is but one mediator and that is Jesus. Its one if you say a prayer for someone its quite another if your asking someone other than Jesus to intercede in a matter. Christ never once in the bible sent someone
one to mary to be saved or to even intercede for him . Why should we
one to mary to be saved or to even intercede for him . Why should we
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Just continue to read the Catechism that you sited above and you’ll see that we hold the Bible (that we preserved single-handedly for 1200 years) to be very sacred, indeed!
But Jesus does allow others to intercede. The four friends that lowered the paralytic through the roof - it was THEIR faith that saved him. Just like Mary, part of the living Body of Christ, part of the branches of the vine, does when she prays for us. We are not asking Mary to save us, we are asking her to ask Jesus to save us!
I sometimes think the Communion of Saints is one of the most beautiful doctrines of our Church, and wonder how other faiths can just ignore it!
Notworthy
But Jesus does allow others to intercede. The four friends that lowered the paralytic through the roof - it was THEIR faith that saved him. Just like Mary, part of the living Body of Christ, part of the branches of the vine, does when she prays for us. We are not asking Mary to save us, we are asking her to ask Jesus to save us!
I sometimes think the Communion of Saints is one of the most beautiful doctrines of our Church, and wonder how other faiths can just ignore it!
Notworthy
E
Eden
Guest
God Desires and Responds to Our Subordinate Mediation / Intercessory Prayer
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?
1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.
1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).
1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.
Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (“sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.
Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.
2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.
Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.
1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.
Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God’s people.
James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected. 1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.
scripturecatholic.com
1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?
1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.
1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).
1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.
Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (“sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.
Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.
2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.
Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.
1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.
Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God’s people.
James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected. 1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.
scripturecatholic.com
E
Eden
Guest
Specific Instructions to Mediate and Examples of Subordinate Mediation
New Testament
Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.
Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.
Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints – and He obviously would not have been worshiping them in so doing – then so can we, who need their help infinitely more than Jesus, and without engaging in idolatry. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.
Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.
Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.
Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.
John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.
John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.
John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary’s intercession that started Jesus’ ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary’s intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.
Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.
Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.
2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other’s prayers.
2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ.
2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ’s mediation.
Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another’s burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.
Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.
Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?
Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians’ earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.
Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.
Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom.
Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn’t Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true.
1 Thess. 5:11 - Paul charges us to encourage one another and build one another up, in the body of Christ. We do this as mediators in Christ.
1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says “pray constantly.” If Jesus’ role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?
1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation.
2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ’s mediation because Christ desires this.
New Testament
Matt. 5:44-45 - Jesus tells us to pray for (to mediate on behalf of) those who persecute us. God instructs us to mediate.
Matt. 17:1-3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30-31 – deceased Moses and Elijah appear at the Transfiguration to converse with Jesus in the presence of Peter, James and John (these may be the two “witnesses” John refers to in Rev. 11:3). Nothing in Scripture ever suggests that God abhors or cuts off communication between the living in heaven and the living on earth. To the contrary, God encourages communication within the communion of saints. Moses and Elijah’s appearance on earth also teach us that the saints in heaven have capabilities that far surpass our limitations on earth.
Matt. 26:53 – Jesus says He can call upon the assistance of twelve legions of angels. If Jesus said He could ask for the assistance of angel saints – and He obviously would not have been worshiping them in so doing – then so can we, who need their help infinitely more than Jesus, and without engaging in idolatry. And, in Matt. 22:30, Jesus says we will be “like angels in heaven.” This means human saints (like the angel saints) can be called upon to assist people on earth. God allows and encourages this interaction between his family members.
Matt. 27:47,49; Mark 15:35-36 – the people believe that Jesus calls on Elijah for his intercession, and waits to see if Elijah would come to save Jesus on the cross.
Matt. 27:52-53 - at Jesus’ passion, many saints were raised and went into the city to appear and presumably interact with the people, just as Jesus did after His resurrection.
Mark 11:24 - Jesus says that whatever we ask in prayer, we will receive it. It is Jesus, and also we through Jesus, who mediate.
John 2:3 - Jesus knew the wine was gone, but invites and responds to Mary’s intercession. God desires our lesser mediation and responds to it because He is a living and loving God.
John 2:5 - Mary intercedes on behalf of those at the wedding feast and tells them to do whatever Jesus tells them. Because Mary is our perfect model of faith, we too intercede on behalf of our brothers and sisters.
John 2:11 - in fact, it was Mary’s intercession that started Jesus’ ministry. His hour had not yet come, yet Jesus responds to Mary’s intercession. Even though He could do it all by Himself, God wants to work with His children.
Acts 12:7 – an angel strikes Peter on the side and wakes him up, freeing him from prison. The angel responds to Peter’s prayers.
Rom. 15:30 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for him. If we are united together in the one body of Christ, we can help each other.
2 Cor. 1:11 - Paul even suggests that the more prayers and the more people who pray, the merrier! Prayer is even more effective when united with other’s prayers.
2 Cor. 9:14 - Paul says that the earthly saints pray for the Corinthians. They are subordinate mediators in Christ.
2 Cor. 13:7,9 - Paul says the elders pray that the Corinthians may do right and improve. They participate in Christ’s mediation.
Gal. 6:2,10 - Paul charges us to bear one another’s burdens, and to do good to all, especially those in the household of faith.
Eph. 6:18 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for each other.
Eph. 6:19 - Paul commands that the Ephesians pray for him. If there is only one mediator, why would Paul ask for their prayers?
Phil. 1:19 - Paul acknowledges power of Philippians’ earthly intercession. He will be delivered by their prayers and the Holy Spirit.
Col. 1:3 - Paul says that he and the elders pray for the Colossians. They are subordinate mediators in the body of Christ.
Col. 1:9 - Paul says that he and the elders have not ceased to pray for the Colossians, and that, by interceding, they may gain wisdom.
Col. 4:4 - Paul commands the Colossians to pray for the elders of the Church so that God may open a door for the word. Why doesn’t Paul just leave it up to God? Because subordinate mediation is acceptable and pleasing to God, and brings about change in the world. This is as mysterious as the Incarnation, but it is true.
1 Thess. 5:11 - Paul charges us to encourage one another and build one another up, in the body of Christ. We do this as mediators in Christ.
1 Thess. 5:17 - Paul says “pray constantly.” If Jesus’ role as mediator does not apply subordinately to us, why pray at all?
1 Thess. 5:25 - Paul commands the family of God to pray for the elders of the Church. He desires our subordinate mediation.
2 Thess. 1:11 - Paul tells the family of God that he prays for us. We participate in Christ’s mediation because Christ desires this.
E
Eden
Guest
2 Thess. 3:1 - Paul asks the Thessalonians to pray for Him, Silvanus and Timothy so that they may be delivered.
1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.
2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”
Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon’s intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon.
Heb. 1:14 – the author writes, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?”
Hebrews 13:18-19 - the author strongly urges the Hebrews to pray for the elders so that they act desirably in all things.
James 5:14-15- James says the prayer of the priests over the sick man will save the sick man and forgive his sins. This is a powerful example of men forgiving sins and bringing a person to salvation with the sacrament of the sick.
James 5:16 - James instructs us to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed.
James 5:17-18 - James refers to God’s response to Elijah’s fervent prayer for no rain. He is teaching us about the effectiveness of our earthly mediation.
1 John 5:14-15 - John is confident that God will grant us anything we ask of God according to His will.
1 John 5:16-17 - our prayers for others even calls God to give life to them and keep them from sinning. Our God is a personal and living God who responds to our prayers.
3 John 2 - John prays for Gaius’ health and thus acts as a subordinate mediator.
Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God.
Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)
Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection. Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.
1 Tim. 2:1-3 - Paul commands us to pray for all. Paul also states that these prayers are acceptable in the sight of God.
2 Tim. 1:3 – Paul says “I remember you constantly in my prayers.”
Philemon 22 - Paul is hoping through Philemon’s intercession that he may be able to be with Philemon.
Heb. 1:14 – the author writes, “Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?”
Hebrews 13:18-19 - the author strongly urges the Hebrews to pray for the elders so that they act desirably in all things.
James 5:14-15- James says the prayer of the priests over the sick man will save the sick man and forgive his sins. This is a powerful example of men forgiving sins and bringing a person to salvation with the sacrament of the sick.
James 5:16 - James instructs us to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we may be healed.
James 5:17-18 - James refers to God’s response to Elijah’s fervent prayer for no rain. He is teaching us about the effectiveness of our earthly mediation.
1 John 5:14-15 - John is confident that God will grant us anything we ask of God according to His will.
1 John 5:16-17 - our prayers for others even calls God to give life to them and keep them from sinning. Our God is a personal and living God who responds to our prayers.
3 John 2 - John prays for Gaius’ health and thus acts as a subordinate mediator.
Rev. 1:4 – this verse shows that angels (here, the seven spirits) give grace and peace. Because grace and peace only come from God, the angels are acting as mediators for God.
Rev. 5:8 - the prayers of the saints (on heaven and earth) are presented to God by the angels and saints in heaven. This shows that the saints intercede on our behalf before God, and it also demonstrates that our prayers on earth are united with their prayers in heaven. (The “24 elders” are said to refer to the people of God – perhaps the 12 tribes and 12 apostles - and the “four living creatures” are said to refer to the angels.)
Rev. 6:9-11 – the martyred saints in heaven cry out in a loud voice to God to avenge their blood “on those who dwell upon the earth.” These are “imprecatory prayers,” which are pleas for God’s judgment (see similar prayers in Psalm 35:1; 59:1-17; 139:19; Jer. 11:20; 15:15; 18:19; Zech.1:12-13). This means that the saints in heaven are praying for those on earth, and God answers their prayers (Rev. 8:1-5). We, therefore, ask for their intercession and protection. Rev. 8:3-4 – in heaven an angel mingles incense with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne of God, and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. These prayers “rise up” before God and elicit various kinds of earthly activity. God responds to his children’s requests, whether made by his children on earth or in heaven.
HOW IS THIS NOT BIBLICAL?
M
mike182d
Guest
What does Mary do with all those cares and petitions? Surely you read that part too.
M
mike182d
Guest
What do you think you’re doing when you pray for someone? You’re interceding on their behalf. If their petition alone was sufficient, they wouldn’t need you praying for them. You should understand your own theology before criticizing Catholic theology.
Funny. Jesus never told us to read the New Testament, or said that the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were authoritative. Nor did Jesus ever tell the Apostles to write the Gospels. But they did anyway. How dare they!
L
LilyM
Guest
To my mind it’s not about the prayers of the person being ‘insufficient’, simply that having other people pray for the same intention as well gives them extra ‘oomph’ so to speak.
Put it this way - if I want a favour from a local politician and I am serious about obtaining the favour I’m going to ask other people to support me in my request. If I know people who are intimately connected with the politician, maybe friends or family or work colleagues, even better.
You can’t get closer to Jesus than being a) his mother and b) in Heaven with Him. And it’s not taking away from Him in any way to acknowledge the person who above all others on Earth was close to Him and beloved by Him. If anything He probably appreciates it.
Put it this way - if I want a favour from a local politician and I am serious about obtaining the favour I’m going to ask other people to support me in my request. If I know people who are intimately connected with the politician, maybe friends or family or work colleagues, even better.
You can’t get closer to Jesus than being a) his mother and b) in Heaven with Him. And it’s not taking away from Him in any way to acknowledge the person who above all others on Earth was close to Him and beloved by Him. If anything He probably appreciates it.
W
Will_Pick
Guest
For some non-Catholics, every time the name ‘Mary’ is introduced, there seems to be a ‘stumbling block’, whereas they have no problem with other characters in the Bible. Holy Scripture is filled with intercessory pleas by others. Here are a few examples:
Gen18:23-33, Abraham pleads with GOD for the lives of the people of Sodom.
Ex 32:11 and Psa 106:3, Moses pleads with GOD over the golden calf.
Rom 15:30, St. Paul asks all to pray for him.
Col 1:9, St. Paul said, ‘we too have been praying for you unceasingly, since the day we heard this, and asking that you may be filled with knowledge of His will, in all spiritual wisdom and understanding’.
2Thess 1:11, St. Paul iterates ‘we pray always for you’.
***James 5:16, St. James asks, ‘pray for one another’.
And then of course, Blessed Mary already had interceded with her Son in John 2:3-5, so a precedent for her intercession was already set.
Clearly, there is only one ‘Mediator’, but there are many ‘Intercessors’ to GOD.***
**©
Written by Bob Stanley, February 20, 1998
Updated June 2, 2001
A
anawim
Guest
Does that mean that I can never ask another to pray for me? I have to wait until they offer to pray for me? Doesn’t make sense.
K
kleary
Guest
If we use that Bible verse as you use it here then it means that we are forbidden to ask anyone to pray for us.
Ken
K
kleary
Guest
Then if I ask you to pray for me then I am in violation of 1 Tim 2:5
How do you know this? Simply because it is not in Scripture? Are you basing your faith on Scripture alone? That will not work son. Open your Bible to the page that is the table of contents. Now read to me God’s word that is NOT SCRIPTURE. The Table of Contents is truth revealed by God and it is NOT SCRIPTURE.
Ken
V
volzcpa
Guest
Did not Mary mediate for the bride and groom at the wedding feast of Cana?
John 2:1-5 On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples. When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”
K
kleary
Guest
Some people obviously went to Mary and complained about it knowing that Jesus would do something about it. Yet Jesus in his human nature rebukes Mary for he is referring to what he is to do to the wine at the Last Supper - i.e. change it into his blood.
Ken
V
volzcpa
Guest
Although Christ was described in Scripture as the one/only King, Redeemer, Mediator, Shepherd, High Priest, etc., he also is shown to have shared these attributes with others.
Attribute : Only God can forgive sins.
Apostles given power: John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Attribute: Jesus is King
Apostles will judge in his kingdom: Matt 19:28: Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Attribute: Christ is the one shepherd
Peter is made a shepherd: John 21: 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” And he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.”
Attribute: Jesus is our only Redeemer and offered complete atonement for our sins
We are all made co-redeemers: Col 1: 24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
All Christians share to some extent in many of the attributes of Jesus. We are all mediators as Paul tells us to pray for each other. Mary has a unique relationship with Jesus. A relationship that raises her above all the saints and as such, she has been given a greater share of the attributes of her son than the rest of us but, like all of us, she is subject to Jesus – she in no way equal to Jesus nor does she bypass Jesus in her role as Mediatrix, co-redemptrix, or any other of her unique attributes that have been shared with her (and to a lesser extent, with us) by her son.
None of this sharing is meant to imply that Christ’s attributes were not perfect or complete, but only that in his perfect love for us he wants us all to share in his power and his glory.
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