10 Pastors Who Are Absolutely Loaded

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Some “religious” people are driven to attain money and power, others are not. This is not unique to any particular religion.
 
Cat said:
But you can’t make the judgement that someone is avaricious (is that a word?) just because they have a large home, nice car (s), etc. Where is the “dividing line?” How big does the house have to be before someone crosses the line from “not being avaricious” to “being avaricious?”

In some cities (St. Louis suburbs, e.g.), a very small home will sell for a million dollars. That same home in my city would sell for $60,000. So is the person living in St. Louis avaricious when they buy that small home, but they’re not sinning if they buy it in my city?

Sometimes a person who is poor is avaricious because they cling to their few possessions and treasure them above all else.

Avarice cannot be assessed based on how much we have, but on our attitude towards what we have.
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Not to derail the topic, but houses in St. Louis are not a million dollars. I just bought one in a better neighborhood than the Meyer complex is in that has three bedrooms for $140,000. Any person who lives in a million dollar home, regardless of where it is, is hanging on to alot of money. Could they use that to help the poor. Yep. They could. But frankly, I think there isn’t one among us who couldn’t give more of what we have to help others if we really wanted to. What right have we to complain of someone else’s lack of contribution unless we ourselves are living on a campground in a tent and donating every dime we earn to charity? As long as the televangelists are not taking money that is donated for a mission or to help the poor and using it for themselves, I don’t see a problem with their spending their own income as they like. As someone else said, they haven’t taken a vow of poverty.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
Sounds like jealousy and class envy. The more I see Catholics wag their fingers at those who are NOT Catholic and therefore not bound by the rules of our church, the less I want to be one.
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It certainly isn’t jealousy or class envy. The critiques have to that these preachers are not living an example of Jesus. Their wealth give church’s and all Christians a bad name. The priests, bishops and even pope do not have personal wealth. The dollar value of our buildings, art , etc do not go to the benefit of a single individual, but for the uplifting of the spirit and for the greater glorification of God.
Other faiths are not bound by the rules of the Catholic church, but are bound by God’s universal law. Remember it is easier for a camel to bass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.
 
Cat said:
Everyone should live the way God calls them to live. God does not require all Christians to live simply and reject riches.

There is no Biblical or Church mandate requiring a Christian to live a simple life of relative poverty. Priests and religious have a vocation that often requires vows of poverty. But other Christians do not have this vocation. Protestant ministers are not priests and don’t claim to be. The same vows of poverty are not binding to them.

Take a look at Acts 16: 14-15, and read about Lydia, a businesswoman who sold purple fabrics. She was obviously well-off, and there is no mention that she sold all her possessions and lived the simple life when she became a Christian.

Often, only millionaires are able to reach out with the Gospel to other millionaires. No one else can get near them. Although occasionally poor religious or simple-lifestyle pastors attract the attention of the wealthy and become “darlings” of society (e.g., Blessed Mother Theresa), more often than not, millionaires communicate and RESPOND best with other millionaires. A lot of the wealthy admired Mother Theresa and gave her gifts in public, but not too many actually took her message to heart, rejected sin (e.g., abortion rights), and became outspoken Christians and abortion foes.

That’s where people like Rick Warren come in–well-educated and articulate, highly sucessful, and walking in the same circles as those who are in the upper echelons of society. While you and I would never get close to millionaires, Rick Warren is able to befriend them. God has given him the wealth and fame in order to help him minister to wealthy people, and he does so.

And this is true of “high society”, too. We have a group of people in our city who are well-heeled (not necessarily millionaires, but some are), and many of these people live and move in very different circles than people like my husband and me. Believe it or not, this is a difficult group of people to reach with the Gospel, as they have so much and don’t realize that spiritually, they are poor. Also, because of their wealth and social status, they are rather isolated from “regular” people. Their friends are other rich people, and that’s who is best at reaching them with the Gospel message. They feel comfortable in fine surroundings, and would never feel at ease sitting in my dusty old living room filled with cheap furniture, homemade bookshelves, and figure skating memoribilia.

I think we need to question our own use of the finances that God has trusted us with. But I think that we should not criticize others who happen to have been trusted with great wealth. I agree with one of the posters above who said that only God knows what they do with their money in secret, and He will reward those who use their wealth to invest in eternal matters.
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So refreshing to read a voice of reason among all these bickering and finger pointing.

Thank you for taking the time and elaborate on intelligent posts! :blessyou:

PS - I am praising the well elaborated posts by Cat and not condoning any misuse of the Gospel. You know… before someone comes and put words in my posts…
 
pmathew2011 said:
Does’nt the life style of these Pentecostal Pastors contradict Scriptures as in Mathew 6:24?
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Only if you “love” the money. They would claim that it is simply their just due. They don’t crave it, but they don’t mind keeping it (so they would say).

These are “health & wealth” prosperity-Gospel people. They are very good at telling people what they want to hear - that God wants you to be healthy & wealthy. Naturally, their message would seem weak if they were not wealthy themselves. It’s wacky theology, but people believe it because they want to believe it.
 
pmathew2011 said:
Some of them like Joel Osteen rarely preach on sin…or judgement…or repentance…all they love to preach on is a feel good gospel…no wonder the large crowds who come to hear him…

Two more links on the same:-

[(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/tele-evangelist_lifestyles.html](http://www.(name removed by moderator)lainsite.org/html/tele-evangelist_lifestyles.html)

youtube.com/watch?v=NSxqFE_hmcE
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As I’ve often said before in other threads, it’s like fast-food: a happy feel-good Gospel makes you feel good, but doesn’t actually feed your hunger.
 
followingtheway said:
I’m Catholic, and please refute me one this, but Protestants argue that the Vatican is “loaded” What makes us different?
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I think that was covered in this thread. It’s not personal wealth, except for those secular priests who do not take a vow of poverty and may come into the Church with wealth or are left an inheritance. But I cannot say in all my years I saw extravagent personal wealth by a diocesan priest.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=628766&highlight=Vatican+wealth

Fr. Barron covered this in his series – the wealth you see in Basilicas and Cathedrals and the Vatican are for the glory of God – not for personal wealth of any one individual and not the Pope – but belong to all of us in concert, for that glory of God. They cannot be sold or used for personal reasons, not even by the Pope himself.

I think the information on the amount of money made by priests in the Catholic Church is incorrect. Timothy Cardinal Dolan, Cardinal Designate for the New York Diocese, made $23,000 per year as Archbishop of New York. It was reported that his elevation to Cardinal brings no increase in salary. I don’t know think that that is really much. Our diocesan priests make extra money by teaching courses at Catholic universities here in NYC, part-time, aside from their duties in the parish.

And the Church has accumulated it’s holdings over 2,000 years. The Sistine Chapel for example would be priceless, could not be dismantled and sold for its ceiling. Would Pope Julius II know, when commissioning Michaelangelo to paint that portion of the ceiling, that it would now be absolutely priceless?
 
And the Church has accumulated it’s holdings over 2,000 years. The Sistine Chapel for example would be priceless, could not be dismantled and sold for its ceiling.
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If the Church needed money badly enough and some gaudy Billionaire wanted a late Cinquecento, early Baroque ceiling for his bedroom, I’m certain something could be arranged as far as removing the ceiling goes. Remember, some American bought London Bridge thinking that it was Tower Bridge.
Would Pope Julius II know, when commissioning Michaelangelo to paint that portion of the ceiling, that it would now be absolutely priceless?
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Absolutely he did. Julius II had a keen eye for art, investment, and military/political matters (he was the "“The Warrior Pope”). Anyway, he knew the value of what was to be built, which is why he had to have Buonarroti dragged back to Rome to paint the ceiling after he fled Rome to avoid painting it. He was a sculptor, and thought the project was a trap set up by some of his rivals to see him fail. Julius knew exactly what he was commissioning.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
JustaServant said:
It gets worse:
newser.com/story/137915/10-pastors-who-are-absolutely-loaded.html
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Who are the people donating money to them? Are these considered donations or tithes? I have tried to listen to what they preach, but, when it comes to “Send as much as you can and your return in blessings, will be more wealth then you gave us!”

How can this be considered as any sort of message or charity or sacrifice?

In the Holy Bible, tithes were specifically for the widows and orphans…all of us know a needy widow and maybe some children whom have lost one or both parents, sometimes they are in our own family circle…👍
 
followingtheway said:
I’m Catholic, and please refute me one this, but Protestants argue that the Vatican is “loaded” What makes us different?
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Our “wealth” (churches and art and libraries) are open for use and inspection, held in trust for humanity. Our income is all used in ministry and charity. Your local Catholic pastor makes about 25,000, albeit he has housing in a ****** old house or apartment and a car allowance and maybe a house keeper.

The local mega church pastor is a “teaching pastor” that means he does not do ministry outside of sermons, prayer breakfasts, press conferences etc.

The local Catholic pastors of the biggest parishes are busting hump with pre marital counseling, divorce counseling, Saturday confessions, nursing home and hospital visits, weddings, baptisms, you name it. Mega church “senior pastors” don’t engage in such mundane tasks.

In other words, our pastors are shepherds, theirs are motivational speakers. I reckon my pastor could spin off 35 or 40 minutes of snappy Sunday reparte if he wasn’t working 80 hours a week in RCIA classes and nursing home visits.
 
Amen
JRRTFAN said:
Our “wealth” (churches and art and libraries) are open for use and inspection, held in trust for humanity. Our income is all used in ministry and charity. Your local Catholic pastor makes about 25,000, albeit he has housing in a ****** old house or apartment and a car allowance and maybe a house keeper.

The local mega church pastor is a “teaching pastor” that means he does not do ministry outside of sermons, prayer breakfasts, press conferences etc.

The local Catholic pastors of the biggest parishes are busting hump with pre marital counseling, divorce counseling, Saturday confessions, nursing home and hospital visits, weddings, baptisms, you name it. Mega church “senior pastors” don’t engage in such mundane tasks.

In other words, our pastors are shepherds, theirs are motivational speakers. I reckon my pastor could spin off 35 or 40 minutes of snappy Sunday reparte if he wasn’t working 80 hours a week in RCIA classes and nursing home visits.
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Amen:gopray:
 
JRRTFAN said:
Our “wealth” (churches and art and libraries) are open for use and inspection, held in trust for humanity. Our income is all used in ministry and charity. Your local Catholic pastor makes about 25,000, albeit he has housing in a ****** old house or apartment and a car allowance and maybe a house keeper.

The local mega church pastor is a “teaching pastor” that means he does not do ministry outside of sermons, prayer breakfasts, press conferences etc.

The local Catholic pastors of the biggest parishes are busting hump with pre marital counseling, divorce counseling, Saturday confessions, nursing home and hospital visits, weddings, baptisms, you name it. Mega church “senior pastors” don’t engage in such mundane tasks.

In other words, our pastors are shepherds, theirs are motivational speakers. I reckon my pastor could spin off 35 or 40 minutes of snappy Sunday reparte if he wasn’t working 80 hours a week in RCIA classes and nursing home visits.
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I think you are incorrect in the way you are characterizing pastors. Just because someone is a senior pastor in a large church does not mean they are not dedicated to meeting the needs of their church. Likely, there are a great number of people called to volunteer their time and use their gifts to help meet some of these needs. It’s a blessing to allow members of your congregation who feel called by God to help others by giving them the opportunity to do so. Perhaps your pastor enjoys the 80 hour workweeks and would not consider them to be drudgery. If you think it is a difficulty for him then it might be a good idea to step forward and offer your support through sharing some of the load. It would could be a blessing!
 
Sufjon said:
If the Church needed money badly enough and some gaudy Billionaire wanted a late Cinquecento, early Baroque ceiling for his bedroom, I’m certain something could be arranged as far as removing the ceiling goes.
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No, there are some things that are not for sale. The Church would sell off just about everything else she had before selling the Sistine Chapel ceiling.
Remember, some American bought London Bridge thinking that it was Tower Bridge.
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An urban myth. He knew exactly which bridge he was buying, he spent months in London measuring out the bridge and drawing up plans to fit it in to its new site. Even an Aussie like me on Australia Day has to admit that Americans are not THAT stupid.
Absolutely he did. Julius II had a keen eye for art, investment, and military/political matters (he was the "“The Warrior Pope”). Anyway, he knew the value of what was to be built, which is why he had to have Buonarroti dragged back to Rome to paint the ceiling after he fled Rome to avoid painting it. He was a sculptor, and thought the project was a trap set up by some of his rivals to see him fail. Julius knew exactly what he was commissioning.
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Your friend
Sufjon
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Julius no doubt had mixed motives - his personal glory as well as the glory and worship of God. No doubt he was wordly wise enough to know that the value of the work would appreciate. And no doubt he was also wise enough to know that it could never be sold. As the rise in value cannot be converted to money, there was no element of “investment” in the financial sense.
 
I have no problem with ethically gained wealth, but the preachers who promise blessings in exchange for money get to me. The people who are most vulnerable are the one who send money. If you do a little digging, you can find quite a few who claim that gifts to their ministry will be multiplied by God and then returned to the giver. That is just terrible.

Book profits like Rick Warren’s are perfectly legitimate. There’s nothing wrong with that.
 
Petergee said:
And it’s a two edged sword, because also non-Christians see these guys and then they accuse** all** Christians, even Catholics, of being like that.
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One major important difference:
Catholics do not make “wealth” part of our theology.
 
Slinger said:
I think you are incorrect in the way you are characterizing pastors. Just because someone is a senior pastor in a large church does not mean they are not dedicated to meeting the needs of their church. Likely, there are a great number of people called to volunteer their time and use their gifts to help meet some of these needs. It’s a blessing to allow members of your congregation who feel called by God to help others by giving them the opportunity to do so. Perhaps your pastor enjoys the 80 hour workweeks and would not consider them to be drudgery. If you think it is a difficulty for him then it might be a good idea to step forward and offer your support through sharing some of the load. It would could be a blessing!
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I don’t think I am at all. In fact, I’d be willing to wager a few hard U S Dineros on it. Call up the “senior” or “teaching” pastor of any mega-church in your community, I don’t care which one, and ask if he can give you some pre-divorce counseling (or any oher pastoral activity that may cross your mind) and you’ll get “referred” - if you can get to him in the first place.

One of my buddies is the # 2 guy at the local mega church, he told me Pastor is essentially sequestered except for public funcitons. The local megas (more than one) my family attends have the same situation. I have persoanlly heard from their mouths: “I don’t do weddings, funerals or baptisms any more.”

I do RCIA teaching and act as a Confirmation sponsor as well as the “lay” side of premarital counseling but I can’t, and won’t attempt to do, those things a Priest does.

I’m sotrry to be offensive but I find the descent of modern Protestantism into a series of entertainment segments to be a ridiculous devaluation of the whole concept of religion.

What does it mean, now, to be a Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian. etc.? Those communions used to have a set of theological precepts and pastors who did pastoral work. Not anymore.
 
No, there are some things that are not for sale. The Church would sell off just about everything else she had before selling the Sistine Chapel ceiling.
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Hard tp say what financial hardship might or might not do.
An urban myth. He knew exactly which bridge he was buying, he spent months in London measuring out the bridge and drawing up plans to fit it in to its new site. Even an Aussie like me on Australia Day has to admit that Americans are not THAT stupid.
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In 1967, the Common Council of the City of London placed the bridge on the market and began to look for potential buyers. It was purchased by Robert McCulloch (an American), taken apart and moved to Lake Havasu City, Arizona (which is in the United States).
Julius no doubt had mixed motives - his personal glory as well as the glory and worship of God. No doubt he was wordly wise enough to know that the value of the work would appreciate.
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Which was simply my point.
And no doubt he was also wise enough to know that it could never be sold. As the rise in value cannot be converted to money, there was no element of “investment” in the financial sense.
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I didn’t say it wan an investment, I said that Julius knew the value. The last thing Julius needed was more money, so he didn’t need such an investment. If he needed something, he took it.

Your friend
Sufjon
 
JRRTFAN said:
I don’t think I am at all. In fact, I’d be willing to wager a few hard U S Dineros on it. Call up the “senior” or “teaching” pastor of any mega-church in your community, I don’t care which one, and ask if he can give you some pre-divorce counseling (or any oher pastoral activity that may cross your mind) and you’ll get “referred” - if you can get to him in the first place.

One of my buddies is the # 2 guy at the local mega church, he told me Pastor is essentially sequestered except for public funcitons. The local megas (more than one) my family attends have the same situation. I have persoanlly heard from their mouths: “I don’t do weddings, funerals or baptisms any more.”

I do RCIA teaching and act as a Confirmation sponsor as well as the “lay” side of premarital counseling but I can’t, and won’t attempt to do, those things a Priest does.

I’m sotrry to be offensive but I find the descent of modern Protestantism into a series of entertainment segments to be a ridiculous devaluation of the whole concept of religion.

What does it mean, now, to be a Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopalian. etc.? Those communions used to have a set of theological precepts and pastors who did pastoral work. Not anymore.
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You’re painting with a huge brush.

I know a lot of pastors, and many of them do pastoral work.

Just as there are a few “celebrity priests” in the Catholic Church, there are also “celebrity pastors” in the various Protestant denominations.

Being a celebrity means a lot of temptations that most of us never get exposed to. Some of the priests and pastors yield to these temptations, and some don’t.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen was one of the biggest “religious” celebrities for many years. I grew up Baptist, but even my parents watched him on TV. As far as I know, this man never faltered and always maintained a vibrant witness for Christ and the Church, in spite of his celebrity.

Same for the Rev. Dr. Billy Graham. I’ve followed his career since I was a child, and as far as I know, he’s never been caught in a serious sin. He did speak out in favor of Pres. Nixon’s innocence, and after Pres. Nixon was proven guilty, Dr. Graham stated that he would no longer get involved with politics, but stick with his calling of preaching the Gospel. That’s the biggest sin he was “guilty” of–defending a friend that he thought was innocent.

Most priests and pastors live anonymous lives, serving a parish or a local fellowship, and they lead good lives, do plenty of pastoral work, and remain faithful to Jesus. It’s simply not fair to condemn them because of the few who fail to live up to their calling.
 
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