10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

[RC_Sojourner]

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf conceal carries firearms. If they’re good enough for Fr. Zuhlsdorf, then they’re good enough for me.

Fr. Zuhlsdorf says that the gubmint could come and take our guns. Find me a Catholic source that says the same thing as this Communist Progressive Heretic MotherJones article.

I’m sorry, but I personally, am not in the business of listening to heretics. Mother Jones is full of Heretics. Its full of enemies of the Church.

Anyways, do you think Catholics in Syria shouldn’t own guns? What about Catholics in Egypt? What about Catholics in Nigeria? What about Catholics in Pakistan? What about Catholics in Indonesia? What about Catholics in the Philippines? What about Catholics in Ukraine?

Should they not own guns? Should they just sit back and get raped and murdered?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332338/100-000-Christians-killed-year-faith-says-Vatican-archbishop-Monsignor-Silvano-Maria-Tomasi-Iran-shuts-countrys-biggest-Pentecostal-church-arrests-pastor-mid-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

100,000 Christians are murdered every year because of their faith… and guess what? My source is THE VATICAN. Archbishop Tomasi is the Vatican’s Permanent Observer to the U.N. A VATICAN ARCHBISHOP SAYS 100,000 CHRISTIANS DIE EVERY YEAR!!!

Do you want to take their guns? Leave them to die? I would hope not.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf conceal carries firearms. If they’re good enough for Fr. Zuhlsdorf, then they’re good enough for me.

Fr. Zuhlsdorf says that the gubmint could come and take our guns. Find me a Catholic source that says the same thing as this Communist Progressive Heretic MotherJones article.

I’m sorry, but I personally, am not in the business of listening to heretics. Mother Jones is full of Heretics. Its full of enemies of the Church.

Anyways, do you think Catholics in Syria shouldn’t own guns? What about Catholics in Egypt? What about Catholics in Nigeria? What about Catholics in Pakistan? What about Catholics in Indonesia? What about Catholics in the Philippines? What about Catholics in Ukraine?

Should they not own guns? Should they just sit back and get raped and murdered?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332338/100-000-Christians-killed-year-faith-says-Vatican-archbishop-Monsignor-Silvano-Maria-Tomasi-Iran-shuts-countrys-biggest-Pentecostal-church-arrests-pastor-mid-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

100,000 Christians are murdered every year because of their faith… and guess what? My source is THE VATICAN. Archbishop Tomasi is the Vatican’s Permanent Observer to the U.N. A VATICAN ARCHBISHOP SAYS 100,000 CHRISTIANS DIE EVERY YEAR!!!

Do you want to take their guns? Leave them to die? I would hope not.

Nobody wants to take your guns away!!! But what is your personal concern for the safely of women:

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman’s chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

 

[captainrick]

Then let me try.

Not only outlaws will have guns but also police, and legitimate authorized US armed forces.
Anyone else will obviously be subject to accountability.

But of course all guns will never be outlawed.

Yes, just like the " legitimate authorized British armed forces" of 237 years ago. Today we may not need an armed civilian populace… What about 100 or 200 years from now?

 

[JackVk]

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf conceal carries firearms. If they’re good enough for Fr. Zuhlsdorf, then they’re good enough for me.

Fr. Zuhlsdorf says that the gubmint could come and take our guns. Find me a Catholic source that says the same thing as this Communist Progressive Heretic MotherJones article.

I’m sorry, but I personally, am not in the business of listening to heretics. Mother Jones is full of Heretics. Its full of enemies of the Church.

Anyways, do you think Catholics in Syria shouldn’t own guns? What about Catholics in Egypt? What about Catholics in Nigeria? What about Catholics in Pakistan? What about Catholics in Indonesia? What about Catholics in the Philippines? What about Catholics in Ukraine?

Should they not own guns? Should they just sit back and get raped and murdered?

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2332338/100-000-Christians-killed-year-faith-says-Vatican-archbishop-Monsignor-Silvano-Maria-Tomasi-Iran-shuts-countrys-biggest-Pentecostal-church-arrests-pastor-mid-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

100,000 Christians are murdered every year because of their faith… and guess what? My source is THE VATICAN. Archbishop Tomasi is the Vatican’s Permanent Observer to the U.N. A VATICAN ARCHBISHOP SAYS 100,000 CHRISTIANS DIE EVERY YEAR!!!

Do you want to take their guns? Leavethem to die? I would hope not.

Also consider that the big, strong US military, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, has been getting bested by peasants with AK-47s and firecrackers. So it’s not a great idea when the only means of defense is controlled by sclerotic, incompetent bureaucracy.

 

[Deus_tecum]

One thing I have learned over the years is that many liberals consider it ok to lie or twist facts to advance their agenda. It is then no surprise to see a liberal source write an anti-gun article using other liberal sources for “data”. John Lott wrote a book exposing much of this. I won’t even try to refute the Mother Jones article here because I know that most anti-gun folks reject truth in favor of their feelings and beliefs.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Nobody wants to take your guns away!!! But what is your personal concern for the safely of women:

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman’s chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

As a woman I disagree with the premise since I have firearms of my own, and will not hesitate to defend myself should the need arise.

 

[Robert_Sock]

One thing I have learned over the years is that many liberals consider it ok to lie or twist facts to advance their agenda. It is then no surprise to see a liberal source write an anti-gun article using other liberal sources for “data”. John Lott wrote a book exposing much of this. I won’t even try to refute the Mother Jones article here because I know that most anti-gun folks reject truth in favor of their feelings and beliefs.

Can the pro-gun lobby refute any of these myths? Why don’t they?

LOVE!

 

[christus_vincit]

Nobody wants to take your guns away!!! But what is your personal concern for the safely of women:

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman’s chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

One thing about statistics is that they fail to examine individual scenarios. How many gun-owning women have deterred would be abusers? We won’t ever know because abusers won’t readily assault an armed woman.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Nobody wants to take your guns away!!! But what is your personal concern for the safely of women:

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman’s chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

Safety of women? Domestic violence?

100,000 Christians are murdered every year. I have a source that says 150,000 Christians were murdered in the year of 2011. Here it is:

ucanews.com/news/persecution-kills-150000-christians-every-year/60090

I could care less about gun deaths in the United States. In the rest of the world, there is violent persecution against Christians. Women in the U.S.? Are you kidding me?

150,000 dead Christians in 2011, and I can tell you that I doubt even 1 of those was in the U.S. Those people need guns.

Do you want to take their guns away in Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Iraq, Nigeria, etc?

Those people need guns. They’re being murdered by violent Islamic Jihadis.

 

[Robert_Sock]

As a woman I disagree with the premise since I have firearms of my own, and will not hesitate to defend myself should the need arise.

Having a gun may very well save your life, of loved ones or other innocent people, and I’m glad that they had a gun when they do. But I also think that there’s great risks that one should be made aware of.

LOVE!

 

[RC_Sojourner]

Can the pro-gun lobby refute any of these myths? Why don’t they?

LOVE!

Do you think Christians in Syria should have guns?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Well, I’ll give this a short go because I’m bored:

“Myth” #1: They’re coming for your guns:

This can’t even be considered a pro-gun argument. It is simply a state of mind held by many gun owners, which is further reinforced by the government’s desire to regulate gun ownership. The belief that someone is attempting to take away your firearms is neither pro, nor anti- gun, therefore, it should not apply to the overall article.

“Myth” #2: Guns don’t kill people—people kill people.

They make the assertion that increased gun ownership results in an increase in violent crimes:

As others have stated, this is verifiably false, as Switzerland has the highest per-capita gun ownership of any developed nation, and also has one of the lowest rates of crime, violent or otherwise: Guns, Crime and the Swiss

If you want to limit it to just American statistics, both the U.S. Dept.of Justice, and the Pew Research Center conducted independent studies that showed that a n increase in gun ownership resulted in a decrease of violent crime: Forbes: Gun Sales Vs. Violent Crime

That’s one “Myth” confirmed.

“Myth” #3: An armed society is a polite society

For starters, politeness is subjective, and therefore not a good basis for intelligent discussion, and I also don’t think anyone actually believes that guns have an affect on politeness… that aside:

Among Texans convicted of serious crimes, those with concealed-handgun licenses were sentenced for threatening someone with a firearm 4.8 times more than those without.

Honestly, I think should go under the “No **** Sherlock” clause… Of course having a license would increase the rate, having a license generally means that you own a gun, and therefore are actually capable of making the thread. That’s be like saying “Those with liquor licenses more likely to sell liquor than those without.” It doesn’t prove anything.

For the other points, the obscene gesture argument is a correlative assumption, and therefore has no ability to prove anything (correlation != causation). The argument about stand your ground laws, while being a sad statistic, doesn’t actually say anything about if gun ownership is good or bad, all it is trying to say is hat stand your ground laws are bad, and is therefore unrelated to the overall clause of the article.

“Myth” #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Somebody else already addressed this, but I’ll touch on it again:

Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

Again, N.S.S… If there are people able to stop mass shootings with guns, they don’t become mass shootings. Comparatively, let’s look at the last few mass shootings:

Fort Hood: Soldiers were unable to carry guns on the base.
Colorado Theater: Guns were not allowed on the theater premises
Virginia Tech: no guns on Campus
Ft. hood (again): Soldiers weren’t allowed to carry guns

These are just a few. There have been several school shootings recently as well, none of them allow guns.

How many mass shootings have there been where they allow guns? I’m not aware, and you’re welcome to contradict me, but I’d venture that it’s significantly less than the four I was able to come up with off the top of my head.

Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5

I don’t even know what this has to do with it… it’s such a specific series of circumstances… oh well.

“Myth” Confirmed

 

[ProdglArchitect]

“Myth” #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

They make zero distinction between lawfully owned guns, and unlawfully owned guns. Without such distinctions, statistics like this are literally meaningless, because people who have guns illegally will continue to have guns illegally, even if they are banned.

43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.

And… what does this have to do with anything? If the parents actually take the time to train the children, this shouldn’t be an issue. Granted, the gun should always be locked down, but again, this doesn’t have any bearing on the rightness or wrongness of gun ownership.

In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

If I found a handgun at that age, I would check the chamber, make sure it’s not loaded, and then yeah, probably pull the trigger if it weren’t. The point is, they don’t distinguish random trigger pulling from calculated pulling. And even if they do, again, that has more to do with the parents taking the time to teach than with the gun itself.

“Myth” #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.

In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

This is unsurprising, as very few civilians actually -try- to stop crimes, and many, many people have arguments. That’s like saying “Ten times more people breathe air than swim rivers naked.” This statistic doesn’t distinguish between lawful gun owners and unlawful gun owners, so it’s basically useless, as we’re arguing for lawful gun ownership.

In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.

Again, N.S.S., even if it’s in defense, when a gun gets pulled emotions will escalate, usually the emotion of fear and panic.

“Myth” #7: Guns make women safer.

With this one, they miss the point of the argument completely. Every statistic they give is about guns being used against women, not with women owning gun and defending themselves from attackers. This one is 100% straw man, because it ignores the actual argument being made in favor of a fabricated one.

“Myth” #8: “Vicious, violent video games” deserve more blame than guns.

Well, I’ve always thought that was a myth, so no argument here. However, no one uses that as a pro-gun argument…

“Myth” #9: More and more Americans are becoming gun owners.

About 50% of Americans said they had a gun in their homes in 1973. Today, about 45% say they do. Overall, 35% of Americans personally own a gun.
• Around 80% of gun owners are men. On average they own 7.9 guns each.

This isn’t a pro gun argument… nor is it an anti- gun argument… The number of people owning a gun has no affect on whether it’s right or not, just as the number of people having extramarital affairs has no affect on whether it’s right or not… This argument has no baring on the argument… especially the second point. What the Hell does that have to do with anything?

“Myth” #10: We don’t need more gun laws—we just need to enforce the ones we have.

Again, nothing they say under this bullet point is actually a refutation of a pro-gun argument. There are people who believe that, but that belief is neither pro nor anti gun.

All told, exactly one of this article’s arguments actually holds water.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Can the pro-gun lobby refute any of these myths? Why don’t they?

LOVE!

I already told you that it probably is refuted in John Lott’s book. Go read it.

Pax Christi

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Having a gun may very well save your life, of loved ones or other innocent people, and I’m glad that they had a gun when they do. But I also think that there’s great risks that one should be made aware of.

LOVE!

I agree completely. I don’t think any gun advocate would disagree with you about the need for personal responsibility that comes with owning firearms. My issue with your argument is the implication that guns in and of themselves are the source of crime, violence, and suicide.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Anyways, do you think Catholics in Syria shouldn’t own guns? What about Catholics in Egypt? What about Catholics in Nigeria? What about Catholics in Pakistan? What about Catholics in Indonesia? What about Catholics in the Philippines? What about Catholics in Ukraine?

Should they not own guns? Should they just sit back and get raped and murdered?
…]
Do you want to take their guns? Leave them to die? I would hope not.

Lets ask Jesus! Luke 22:35-37:
35 Did you go in want of anything, when I sent you out without purse, or wallet, or shoes? 36 They told him, Nothing; and he said, But now it is time for a man to take his purse with him, if he has one, and his wallet too; and to sell his cloak and buy a sword, if he has none. 37 Believe me, one word has been written that has yet to find its fulfilment in me, And he was counted among the malefactors. Sure enough, all that has been written of me must be fulfilled.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Do you think Christians in Syria should have guns?

Better to pray to God for protection.

Matthew 26:52 RSV
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

LOVE!

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Anyways, do you think Catholics in Syria shouldn’t own guns? What about Catholics in Egypt? What about Catholics in Nigeria? What about Catholics in Pakistan? What about Catholics in Indonesia? What about Catholics in the Philippines? What about Catholics in Ukraine?

Should they not own guns? Should they just sit back and get raped and murdered?
…]
Do you want to take their guns? Leave them to die? I would hope not.

Lets ask Jesus! Luke 22:35-37:
35 Did you go in want of anything, when I sent you out without purse, or wallet, or shoes? 36 They told him, Nothing; and he said, But now it is time for a man to take his purse with him, if he has one, and his wallet too; and to sell his cloak and buy a sword, if he has none. 37 Believe me, one word has been written that has yet to find its fulfilment in me, And he was counted among the malefactors. Sure enough, all that has been written of me must be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:52 RSV
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Haydock Commentary:
Shall perish by the sword. This was not to condemn the use of the sword, when employed on a just cause, or by lawful authority. Euthymius looks upon it as a prophecy that the Jews should perish by the sword of the Romans. Wi. — Our divine Saviour would not permit this apostle to continue in his pious zeal for the safety of his Master. He says to him: put up thy sword. For he could not be unwilling to die for the redemption of man, who chose to be born for that end alone. Now, therefore, he gives power to his implacable enemies to treat him in the most cruel manner, not willing that the triumph of the cross should be in the least deferred; the dominion of the devil and man’s captivity in the least prolonged. S. Leo.

 

[Nelka]

I cannot believe people especially Catholics are advocating guns!

:nope:

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

I cannot believe people especially Catholics are advocating guns!

:nope:

Why not? It isn’t contrary to the faith to be armed.