10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

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Twisting? Seeking a physical solution to a spiritual problem strikes me as twisting (reality).

We can save over 3X as many lives by banning cars. 30,000+ deaths per year - no guns required. Remember: cars are already taxed, regulated and licensed. So are the drivers. None of that saves even a single one of those 30,000. Clearly, cars must be banned.

I’ll bet you use one. Thus, you are a potential killer. But, no problem, as it would be accidental.

Did you even bother to listen to Bishop Morlino?

Please do.
OK, I listened to it, but I really did not hear that much than a Christian should not already know. Yes, it’s Satan!!! What I would like to add is that society should not allow guns to individuals, or individuals with family members, who exhibit strong signs of maladaptive behavior (Satan) as exhibited through things like uncontrolled anger, hatred or rage.

LOVE! ❤️
 
No, that matter was settled , in America at least, in 1791 when the bill of rights was ratified. The burden of reasoning rests with those who intend to change the law of the land established for more than two centuries which was proclaimed by our founders as a civil right fundamental to the operation of our republic and the freedom of our people. Nice try, though.
Good Morning Inego de Loyola: The Framers of the Constitution understood that times and situations change, and therefore provided means by which it could be amended as needed. The right to bear arms is a classic example. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was a single shot musket that took a good deal of time and care to load, reload, and still more time and care to actually hit anything. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was not a fully automatic assault weapon capable of destroying large numbers of people in the space of a few seconds.

Therefore, in 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and this is very consistent with the wording of the constitution. This means that we the people, and our judiciary system have the right to review the limits of freedoms as they apply to such things as the ability of people to carry devices of destruction such as firearms. This is in fact the law of the land.

As for the law of the land, I might point out that abortion is also currently the law of the land.

As for your reference to “nice try” let us try to keep our discourse polite and on point if you would.

Thank you ,
Gary
 
Nice to meet you as well Deus Tecum. I am simply saying that behavior is progressive, and did not suggest that 100% of such people are dangerous. However, having spent a good deal of time interviewing violent criminals, I can say with certainty that such phrases are thematic in their dialogs, and predictable. These people are also very cunning and have very convincing stories. Until you’ve heard them several dozen times. You may, however, keep company with who you like. I am just giving an account of who I personally avoid, because I have seen enough violence already.
Ok so you are jaded. I get it.
 
. The statistics are clear that guns are FAR more likely to be used in committing a homicide than are other methods.
LOVE! ❤️
It also depends on your definition of the firearm being ‘used’. Does being used only involve pulling the trigger, or does being ‘used’ also include holding a criminal at bay, or causing them to flee before violence is done.

If so, then handguns are used FAR for often for peaceful purposes than for violent ones.
 
Ok so you are jaded. I get it.
Not al all. As I have said, I am sharing my own experience. You are certainly free to experience such things for yourself, draw your own conclusions and express them here.
 
Good Morning Inego de Loyola: The Framers of the Constitution understood that times and situations change, and therefore provided means by which it could be amended as needed. The right to bear arms is a classic example. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was a single shot musket that took a good deal of time and care to load, reload, and still more time and care to actually hit anything. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was not a fully automatic assault weapon capable of destroying large numbers of people in the space of a few seconds.

Therefore, in 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and this is very consistent with the wording of the constitution. This means that we the people, and our judiciary system have the right to review the limits of freedoms as they apply to such things as the ability of people to carry devices of destruction such as firearms. This is in fact the law of the land.

As for the law of the land, I might point out that abortion is also currently the law of the land.

As for your reference to “nice try” let us try to keep our discourse polite and on point if you would.

Thank you ,
Gary
I am not persuaded by the recent argument that the second amendment was somehow thought acceptable because of the inefficiency of firearms at the time, and that the Framers would not have enacted it had they known about modern firearms.

It’s true that many of the guns of the late eighteenth century were inaccurate and slow to fire. But many were very, very accurate at significant distances due to rifling, which was fairly new at the time. There were also “repeating arms” that would fire several rounds in quick succession, (“semi-automatic”) though they were uncommon.

And, of course, gunpowder itself was capable of inflicting mass casualties. A man with a simple powder horn could rig a bomb without great difficulty.

So I don’t think there is any compelling reason to think the Framers would have neglected to adopt the second amendment had they known about modern firearms.

The courts do tweak Constitutional provisions, sometimes disconcertingly. But they can really only go so far without invalidating the provisions entirely.

One final thing. It seems that in these debates about guns, nobody ever considers their use other than for entertainment (e.g. target shooting) or defense against human beings. For some, animals can present a very serious threat to life, limb and well-being. I realize most people are urban now, but even urban people are sometimes in the presence of animals that could do them serious harm if they only knew.
 
Therefore, in 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and this is very consistent with the wording of the constitution. This means that we the people, and our judiciary system have the right to review the limits of freedoms as they apply to such things as the ability of people to carry devices of destruction such as firearms. This is in fact the law of the land.
If you are referring to the Miller decision, you are correct. That involved Miller possessing a sawed off shotgun.

The Supreme Court remanded that back to the lower court for determination of fact. Interestingly enough, his legal staff was prepared to show that sawed off shotguns were, in fact, used during trench warfare, and therefore of military use, except Miller died before the case was heard by the lower court.

In any case, Miller certainly DOES apply to handguns, general shotguns and, yes even the firearms generally referred to as Assault weapons, as those DO have a reasonable relationship to militias.

The only real stretch is hunting rifles, but a decent case could be made for their relationship to sniper rifles.
 
What is inherently wrong with guns? If it’s due to the potential to hurt people then you might as well also say it’s un-Catholic to advocate for knives, baseball bats, alcohol, and cars.
Add cell phones to the list…while there are probably no stats. I would bet that drivers with cell phones and driving while texting kill more people every year than guns do.
 
Good Evening Jack: I love word games! So, your search is over, because I have a reply to yours:

“If guns were outlawed, only outlaws would accidentally shoot their kids, or get their faces blown off playing with them.”

And since we’re doing plays on words, I might add: That’s a fact Jack.

Thanks,
Gary
Like word games Gary…“When seconds count, the police are only minutes away”…AND THATS A FACT JACK!

Thanks, Mike
 
Therefore, in 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and this is very consistent with the wording of the constitution. This means that we the people, and our judiciary system have the right to review the limits of freedoms as they apply to such things as the ability of people to carry devices of destruction such as firearms. This is in fact the law of the land.
Oddly enough, I almost quoted that same supreme court decision in an earlier post, because it emphasizes that the bill of rights only secures us the use of weapons with military utility. In otherwords the state may be able to ban an ar-15, but a ban on an m-16 is unconstitutional. The weapons you are most worried about are the ones we most surely have a right to. Regarding abortion, I do recognize the burden of reason is on us to convince our neighbors and legislators to act on the matter.
 
Here’s a good take on the second amendment I happen to agree with it, as the evidence shows that a lack of guns puts the citizenry at great risk vis a vi the government. Clearly we are already greatly at risk form each other, despite evidence that this is the most peaceful time in *all *recorded history. that is of concern to us in two ways: we have to be very careful of each other, as the already discussed graphic shows, and we have to see to it that the government doesn’t use that against us. That, despite the wildly paranoid notion that Obama is down the path and coming for our guns.

Also, that graphic, which showed me info about gun ownership I didn’t know as a former NRA member, (I still own a gun) didn’t mention the number of guys who shot their balls or butts off playing “I can stick it in my belt!” I guess, like the lady at the flea market looking at a rifle who asked the vendor, “is it loaded?” forgot what several of us who didn’t know each other all exclaimed in unison: “There isn’t one that isn’t!” And for me, that points to the actual practical problem: maturity and training.

I read somewhere that the level of emotional maturity of most people in situations outside the normal day-to-day, and very often in it, is somewhere between 2yo>12yo. Given my attendance at some political, religious, and other gatherings, that estimate may be high. Just kidding, but you know what I mean. And sorry, in my neck of the woods, where it is legal to shoot anywhere in the County, (heard six rounds over 5ive minutes near the convenience store the other day) and there are serious 4wd trucks running around with confederate and libertarian flags,* and attend Tea Party rallies here, you might understand my concern in this direction.

So I don’t care that fewer men have more guns, I care that they might have an unnecessarily self fulfilling narrow perspective on the world and their place in it. I have’t met them in any of the volunteer organisations I’m part of, or at any City or County meeting, unless it was about guns, or maybe taxes. I also have some neighbors of that ilk, and they are actually very nice, and we often chat or even help each other out. So it isn’t a broad spectrum thing except in some more extreme para military scenarios in the hills around here. But it is in the narrowness of world view and hair trigger emotionalism that I would say that there is a problem.

All that is to say that there are rocks everywhere, but we aren’t always picking them up and throwing them at each other, though some do. And a rifle or handgun is basically just an extremely sophisticated way of throwing a rock–or many. So it isn’t that they are around, it is that they are so easy to pick up, and, generally, it is the people ready in their mind to use them for idealistic, paranoid, or mayhem purposes who are most likely to pick them up. There’s the rub.

Why? Because in all the places I’ve been where tourists are welcome, Americans are at or near the top of the list of persona non grata, as much as our (now more colorful) greenbacks are very welcomed. This is because, on inquiry, we are perceived with some exceptions as loud, arrogant, and unappreciative of what is around us. And often that is how we treat each other as well. It doesn’t matter. We are not taking care of our own green acre, and under the auspices of such as the Koch brothers, we are allowing ourselves through ignorance and lack of perspective to become very dangerously polarized in many areas while emotionalism is encouraged.

This is perfect tinder for people who want bad things for us. As Hitler said: “it is great luck for leaders that men don’t think!” And to this end, while so many are hyperventilating about our Nation being “#1!,” in the last 25 or so years we have gone from that, according to international measures of social progress, to somewhere around 17th. In many areas almost twice s low, but that is about our average status. What we are first in the world in are the percentage of our population in prison, the highest child poverty rate of any industrialized nation, more military spending that the next 17-21 countries put together, and, perhaps most importantly, the vastness of the gap between what an employee and the CEO of a company earns. It is over 750 times greater.

In other words, in a time when there is somewhat of a possibility of the citizenry actually needing guns, the maturity of those who might use them has radically declined, and they might just use them on the very people who, as compatriots, would have solved or prevented the situation we are now in, and are tending ever more to throw gasoline on the artificial and massive twig barrier between us. Is it true that “We have met the enemy and he is us!”? In many ways, yes.

That might be where to look for a solution to the guns. No one sane is going to deliberately shoot himself. But poverty, wage inadequacy and inequality,and politically incited rabble -rousing (yes, us!) is the kind of thing that happens in a war: the enemy is objectified, and given epithetic names: krout, jap, gook, towel-head, Democrat, Republican.

Figure it out, folks. Follow the money. It may not be about what’s in your holster–or your hymnal–padner!

*If anyone wishes to see a successful libertarian government, I suggest Somalia as a viable example.

** It is almost impossible for a single parent to pay for an apartment and associated costs, even if one holds a full time minimum wage job! The whole point, as Roosevelt said, of the minimum wage law when he signed it, was to provide a living wage. For some workers that is still less that $3!!!
 
Good Morning Inego de Loyola: The Framers of the Constitution understood that times and situations change, and therefore provided means by which it could be amended as needed. The right to bear arms is a classic example. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was a single shot musket that took a good deal of time and care to load, reload, and still more time and care to actually hit anything. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was not a fully automatic assault weapon capable of destroying large numbers of people in the space of a few seconds.

Therefore, in 1939, the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia,” and this is very consistent with the wording of the constitution. This means that we the people, and our judiciary system have the right to review the limits of freedoms as they apply to such things as the ability of people to carry devices of destruction such as firearms. This is in fact the law of the land.

As for the law of the land, I might point out that abortion is also currently the law of the land.

As for your reference to “nice try” let us try to keep our discourse polite and on point if you would.

Thank you ,
Gary
cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary-stabbings-how-knife-crime-in-canada-can-cause-moral-panic-1.2611698

Mass murders have and will continue to happen regardless of whether or not there are guns available.
 
Why? Because in all the places I’ve been where tourists are welcome, Americans are at or near the top of the list of persona non grata, as much as our (now more colorful) greenbacks are very welcomed. This is because, on inquiry, we are perceived with some exceptions as loud, arrogant, and unappreciative of what is around us.
All such assessments are anecdotal, but I’m not persuaded this is true. In some places Italy being a notable example, where American popularity is over 70%. Also Poland, also Hungary, particularly if you manage to learn even one word of Magyar.

Should one condemn one’s own people as loud or obnoxious just because Parisians, for example, aren’t very welcoming? (They are in Normandy, though, I have heard tourists say, and along the Rhine) After all, the French dislike Germans and Brits even more. And a lot of that is heartily reciprocated. (Americans aren’t the ones who coined the phrase “Wogs begin at Calais”) And could any Americans possibly be more loud and obnoxious than British soccer fans? And are Americans more vilified by Parisians who betimes refer to Teutons with the catchy phrase “les Autrichiens et les autres chiens”?

I realize this is entirely anecdotal, as are all such “they like us/don’t like us” stories. But I have talked to people who toured in Germany, and they say some Germans, like Saxons for example, are pretty distant, which may simply be a matter of cultural reserve, but some Germans, like Bavarians, are quite welcoming and friendly toward Americans. Someday I hope to test that out myself. 🙂
 
And sorry, in my neck of the woods, where it is legal to shoot anywhere in the County, (heard six rounds over 5ive minutes near the convenience store the other day) and there are serious 4wd trucks running around with confederate and libertarian flags,* and attend Tea Party rallies here, you might understand my concern in this direction.

we are allowing ourselves through ignorance and lack of perspective to become very dangerously polarized in many areas while emotionalism is encouraged.
Truly interesting to juxtapose those two statements.

I have no idea what your “neck of the woods” is. In mine, there are undoubtedly more guns than people. Shooting is allowed anywhere in the county, but one rarely hears it except during deer season. Yes, there are people with 4WD trucks. That would include my son and most bankers around here. (Got to go inspect property and livestock, you know.). Some young men, and some young women do sport confederate flags, and there are Tea Party people (mostly professionals and business people…not a very scary crowd unless one fears one’s own dentist)

But the polarization is entirely political, and almost entirely contrived by the left. This is a very conservative part of the country, and people don’t appreciate being called things like “racist” when they aren’t. They don’t appreciate the derogation of marriage or being forced to pay for abortifacients. They know exactly what the liberal elites think of them as well.

And shootings are virtually nonexistent.
 
Truly interesting to juxtapose those two statements.

I have no idea what your “neck of the woods” is. In mine, there are undoubtedly more guns than people. Shooting is allowed anywhere in the county, but one rarely hears it except during deer season. Yes, there are people with 4WD trucks. That would include my son and most bankers around here. (Got to go inspect property and livestock, you know.). Some young men, and some young women do sport confederate flags, and there are Tea Party people (mostly professionals and business people…not a very scary crowd unless one fears one’s own dentist)

But the polarization is entirely political, and almost entirely contrived by the left. This is a very conservative part of the country, and people don’t appreciate being called things like “racist” when they aren’t. They don’t appreciate the derogation of marriage or being forced to pay for abortifacients. They know exactly what the liberal elites think of them as well.

And shootings are virtually nonexistent.
I grew up (I’m currently 25 so this hasn’t been too long ago) in a similar area in the American deep south. There were a ‘high’ number of guns in the area, but crime was low. Everyone grew up handling firearms, and seemed to have a healthy understanding of the responsibilities involved. Guns weren’t mysterious things that were locked away, they were a tool. While kids may have played things like cops and robbers growing up, nobody ever had the urge to actually incorporate a real weapon into their play because of the way they were raised. In an area with plenty of firearms the only gun related death I recall was a hunting accident in the late 90’s.
 
Good Morning Inego de Loyola: The Framers of the Constitution understood that times and situations change, and therefore provided means by which it could be amended as needed. The right to bear arms is a classic example. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was a single shot musket that took a good deal of time and care to load, reload, and still more time and care to actually hit anything. At the time the Constitution was written, a firearm was not a fully automatic assault weapon capable of destroying large numbers of people in the space of a few seconds.
This is a very moot argument. If this thinking were applied to the First Amendment only soap boxes and hand operated printing presses would be protected by the Constitution. The government would have complete control of all modern mass media and communications.
 
This is a very moot argument. If this thinking were applied to the First Amendment only soap boxes and hand operated printing presses would be protected by the Constitution. The government would have complete control of all modern mass media and communications.
Likewise, the 4th Amendment would not apply to your phone calls and emails.

Gosh, I sure hope the NSA does not take that argument seriously! :rolleyes:
 
But if a private citizen finds himself faced with drawing his weapon with the option to kill a criminal, what resources does he have to draw on in making that determination. Police are highly trained to shoot to wound or shoot to kill. They are trained with some psychological profiling and negotiating skills. They also take oaths that are not just legally but professionally binding. Private citizens don’t have very many of these types of skills or at least not with any depth of training. If a person is faced with a police officer training a gun on them their reaction is necessarily different to having a private citizen who could have any manner of deficiency in reacting in highly stressful situations regardless of his mental state or gun handling ability. I really think the US aren’t giving the overall environment of private gun ownership due considerations.
NO! Police are NEVER trained to “shoot to wound.”. I was a police officer, both civilian and military. The “shoot to wound” thing is only on TV or movies!
 
So, it’s okay then for me to have an AR-15 for some wild animals, a 30-06 for some and a .357 magnum for others. Got it.🙂

Just as an aside, I live in an area where there are indisputably more guns than people, but gun violence is virtually nonexistent. Its not the existence or possession of guns. It’s something else.
Not so fast there…😉 . I said open for debate.

Could it be this CC paragraph was to address the protection of the common good which would be a justified position. But I do see nations abusing this ideal. The measures taken for the common good are not necessarily the moral answer to problems, but a next best solution in the interim.

For instance the US doesn’t want Iran to possess “evils and disorders” the equivalent of it’s “evils and disorders”(nukes). Of course this attitude flies in opposition to the Church. Going deeper in our study, the US attitude is also anti-Christian, since the US should desire the best protection for it’s sister country Iran.

You figure. … and no I don’t think every citizen needs to be walking around with bazookas,L.A.W.S, or anything else.
 
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