10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down

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Boatswain2PA;]Ignoring your uncharitable nonsense, I gave you several examples of how the government is not just individual people working in their individual cubicles (or, as you alluded to, silos). You refuse to see the examples that I gave, but instead devolve into personal insinuations, which is a typical leftist method. Just another example of how YOU could easily have become one of the Gestapo.
You said personal experience, and you cited non-personal examples that fall way short of a government plot to subjugate the people. I think you’re an armed person who is also paranoid by the way. In short, you’re scary. I also invite you to visit any government office and you will in fact see just people in cubicles doing what people in offices do in any business. You have yet to tell me what you have personally seen that is different. Have you even been to the Pentagon? I was there every day for five years.
More leftist propaganda…Those who serve in the military are collecting “from the government teat”, while those on the various means-tested assistance programs are “those in need.”
Well, you are. You are no more independent of me and my money than a welfare recipient. You need me and people like me who pay a lot of taxes, yet you are worried about paying taxes yourself.
As to the (general) Tea party ideology - there are very, very few functions that are bestowed upon the Federal government in the constitution. Having a national military is one of them, paying for health care for everyone is NOT. That is the big difference between the Tea party and the leftists, who would rather have free health care for all but no military.
Do you buy your own health insurance, or are the rest of us still paying your way?
Don’t worry about the rest of us helping the working poor. We’re happy to do it, and we won’t take away your government teat as you call it.
Yeah, the Jews were also citizens. Until their rights were taken away from them…kinda like you want to do to some American citizens.
You do understand that not letting you have buy toys that can hurt other people with the income the rest of us hand you is no comparison to putting people in camps and gassing them. You are armed and your reasoning is sketchy. Again - you’re scary.
 
Thank you God for the Peace of Christ.

“This message is hidden because Gary Sheldrake is on your ignore list.”
 
Have you even been to the Pentagon? I was there every day for five years.
That explains a lot. Operator’s have a term for guys like you - REMF. I believe there was a movie that explains what that means…basically a vulgar term for a guy who sits in a nice cozy office (like at the Pentagon) sending emails all day telling politicians that they have all of the answers, when in reality he doesn’t know squat.

REMF’s don’t hesitate to wear their reserve uniform to events for the free meals, receive the accolades for being a “hero”, and receive the military discount at Lowes. They will even announce, repeatedly, that “they served”, or “they wore the uniform” on internet discussion boards. Yet when they go for their VA physical the only injuries they can list on the form is excessive paper cuts, and possibly carpal tunnel disease due to all of the emails they have typed.

REMF’s have never slept (or, more accurately put, never NOT slept) in the field. Nor have they ever actually put themselves, or their careers on the line. This is easy to do when your operating area is an email inbox, and any decision you need to make can always be bumped up to your next line REMF. They have the luxury of waking up in their own bed every morning, getting warm coffee from Starbucks on the way to the office, being a few minutes late to work because traffic was just horrible, taking an extra 15 minutes at lunch because service was slow, and then heading out of the office 30 minutes late because of their kid’s orthodontist appointment.

Operator’s on the other hand rarely feel comfortable bragging about their service, because they know too many people who “really” earned those accolades…by laying down their life for their nation. When they go to the VA it isn’t for papercuts or carpel tunnel, it is because they are missing an extremity, or their nightmares are keeping them awake, or their neck or back is spasming from the repeated pounding they received from the aircraft landings.

Operator’s understand exactly how precious it is to go to sleep, and wake up, in their own bed next to their supporting wives…because they have spend HUNDREDS of nights away from their families, and their own beds. They may be hot-racking on a ship, or they may be sleeping in a duty room, or maybe in a tank, or a tent, or on the open ground…but they are not in their own bed, next to their wife. A REMF calls this “camping”, an operator calls this his job.

An operator smells coffee in the morning and thinks about how he can get it to his men. A REMF just thinks about whether he has enough cream to go with it. If an operator is “late to work”, it may very likely mean that they caused someone they know to become dead.
You do understand that not letting you have buy toys that can hurt other people with the income the rest of us hand you is no comparison to putting people in camps and gassing them. You are armed and your reasoning is sketchy. Again - you’re scary.
You FINALLY are right about one thing Gary. I am scary. Threaten my family, or the constitution that I swore an oath to defend, and you have every reason to be scared of me.

And with that I am done responding to you. You have attempted to make this personal by equating my military benefits (that I earned NOT by sitting behind a desk sending emails but with being in the field risking myself and, more importantly, my men’s lives) with living “off the government teat”. To put it bluntly, you are what is despicable about the American leftist.
 
Do you care to back up your assertion?

LOVE! ❤️
Other folks here have already pointed it out, but I will try to one more time.

Of course owning a gun raises your risk or gun related violence. Just like owning a car increases your risk of becoming injured in a MVA. Or bathing increasing your risk of drowning in a bathtub.

However owning a gun does not CAUSE gun related violence. Nor does owning a care CAUSE motor vehicle accidents. Nor does bathing CAUSE drowning.

Association does not equal causation. I know it’s difficult to separate fact from your intense feelings here (or any other of your liberal causes), but you can do it!
 
While I respect and acknowledge the arguments put forth here, I noticed they didn’t address one:

“If guns are outlawed, then only outlaws will have guns”.

I have never, not once, heard anyone even try to refute this statement, much less do so persuasively.
That one’s fairly easy - if only outlaws have guns, you’ll be able to tell who the outlaws are, because they’ll be the ones with the guns. 🙂
 
=Boatswain2PA;That explains a lot. Operator’s have a term for guys like you - REMF. I believe there was a movie that explains what that means…basically a vulgar term for a guy who sits in a nice cozy office (like at the Pentagon) sending emails all day telling politicians that they have all of the answers, when in reality he doesn’t know squat.
I didn’t just work in the Pentagon. You don’t pay much attention, so I am wondering why I reply to you. You may recall that I have seen some pretty bad gunshot deaths. Where do you suppose I might have seen those? It wasn’t at the Pentagon. By the way, my point was that there is no big conspiracy going on there. Just people counting the days until they get out. These are the people you are afraid of. The people you said are sitting in nice cozy offices sending emails. That’s who you are afraid of. You need to defend yourself because someone might shoot an email at you? That’s my point. My question to you is to explain clearly what is making you paranoid about the government. If you can’t do that, then it isn’t situational paranoia, but simply paranoia. Are you really afraid, or are you using it as an excuse to push a pro gun agenda? If you are really afraid, then tell me what’s cookin’ in Washington that you’re afraid of? Be specific. What have you seen for yourself?
You FINALLY are right about one thing Gary. I am scary. Threaten my family, or the constitution that I swore an oath to defend, and you have every reason to be scared of me.
You sound like a rather fearful person. Why is that?
And with that I am done responding to you. You have attempted to make this personal by equating my military benefits (that I earned NOT by sitting behind a desk sending emails but with being in the field risking myself and, more importantly, my men’s lives) with living “off the government teat”. To put it bluntly, you are what is despicable about the American leftist.
You’re just angry because you have no sense of charity for the working poor who I support with my tax money. By what measure are you any more worthy than they are? Did you work harder? Are you smarter? Why should you be supported by my tax money and not them? What makes you more worthy as a creation of God than these people? Because you were in the military? So were a lot of the working poor you see at Walmart sweeping floors. So were many of the homeless. Many of them served in combat. Why should I turn my back on them in favor of you? Because you were luckier than they were? Because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and you were in the right place? These are simple questions. You should be grateful for what our society gives you rather than resentful of what it gives others. Do you really expect to share in the Kingdom of Heaven with that sort of outlook? I am asking you some hard questions, buy you’re a pretty hard fella, so I think you should be able to reply calmly and with some sound thought.

It truly would be a shame if you were done replying to me before you answer these questions.
 
Other folks here have already pointed it out, but I will try to one more time.

Of course owning a gun raises your risk or gun related violence. Just like owning a car increases your risk of becoming injured in a MVA. Or bathing increasing your risk of drowning in a bathtub.

However owning a gun does not CAUSE gun related violence. Nor does owning a care CAUSE motor vehicle accidents. Nor does bathing CAUSE drowning.

Association does not equal causation. I know it’s difficult to separate fact from your intense feelings here (or any other of your liberal causes), but you can do it!
Drowning is not the purpose of bathtubs, nor is crashing the purpose of cars, but the purpose of guns is to kill people - in self-defense, of course.

If you don’t intend to kill the person (intruder or attacker) you are aiming the gun at, then you shouldn’t own it in the first place, because if you don’t mean to kill the person, then your gun will be taken away from you by the intruder/attacker, and you will be killed with your own gun.

And if you never intend to aim your gun at someone with the intent to kill that person, then you have no business owning a gun, because all you’re really doing is creating temptation for your children to kill themselves or each other with it.
 
That explains a lot. Operator’s have a term for guys like you - REMF. I believe there was a movie that explains what that means…basically a vulgar term for a guy who sits in a nice cozy office (like at the Pentagon) sending emails all day telling politicians that they have all of the answers, when in reality he doesn’t know squat.

REMF’s don’t hesitate to wear their reserve uniform to events for the free meals, receive the accolades for being a “hero”, and receive the military discount at Lowes. They will even announce, repeatedly, that “they served”, or “they wore the uniform” on internet discussion boards. Yet when they go for their VA physical the only injuries they can list on the form is excessive paper cuts, and possibly carpal tunnel disease due to all of the emails they have typed.

REMF’s have never slept (or, more accurately put, never NOT slept) in the field. Nor have they ever actually put themselves, or their careers on the line. This is easy to do when your operating area is an email inbox, and any decision you need to make can always be bumped up to your next line REMF. They have the luxury of waking up in their own bed every morning, getting warm coffee from Starbucks on the way to the office, being a few minutes late to work because traffic was just horrible, taking an extra 15 minutes at lunch because service was slow, and then heading out of the office 30 minutes late because of their kid’s orthodontist appointment.

Operator’s on the other hand rarely feel comfortable bragging about their service, because they know too many people who “really” earned those accolades…by laying down their life for their nation. When they go to the VA it isn’t for papercuts or carpel tunnel, it is because they are missing an extremity, or their nightmares are keeping them awake, or their neck or back is spasming from the repeated pounding they received from the aircraft landings.

Operator’s understand exactly how precious it is to go to sleep, and wake up, in their own bed next to their supporting wives…because they have spend HUNDREDS of nights away from their families, and their own beds. They may be hot-racking on a ship, or they may be sleeping in a duty room, or maybe in a tank, or a tent, or on the open ground…but they are not in their own bed, next to their wife. A REMF calls this “camping”, an operator calls this his job.

An operator smells coffee in the morning and thinks about how he can get it to his men. A REMF just thinks about whether he has enough cream to go with it. If an operator is “late to work”, it may very likely mean that they caused someone they know to become dead.

You FINALLY are right about one thing Gary. I am scary. Threaten my family, or the constitution that I swore an oath to defend, and you have every reason to be scared of me.

And with that I am done responding to you. You have attempted to make this personal by equating my military benefits (that I earned NOT by sitting behind a desk sending emails but with being in the field risking myself and, more importantly, my men’s lives) with living “off the government teat”. To put it bluntly, you are what is despicable about the American leftist.
The one constant throughout this thread is the lack of respect for office and authority of any sort that the gun lobby seem to have. The government machine is dodgy, the police are ineffective buffoons with no power, the defence machine is divided by factions, the ‘King of England’ is a very real threat to the constitution, other western governments are stupid and heathen to boot for denying their subjects the God given right to pack heat to do the school run. The only people the gun lobby seem to respect are armed criminals. It’s such topsy turvy reasoning.
 
Drowning is not the purpose of bathtubs, nor is crashing the purpose of cars, but the purpose of guns is to kill people - in self-defense, of course.

If you don’t intend to kill the person (intruder or attacker) you are aiming the gun at, then you shouldn’t own it in the first place, because if you don’t mean to kill the person, then your gun will be taken away from you by the intruder/attacker, and you will be killed with your own gun.

And if you never intend to aim your gun at someone with the intent to kill that person, then you have no business owning a gun, because all you’re really doing is creating temptation for your children to kill themselves or each other with it.
You are correct, but I was only using these examples as examples of the statistical errors in Robert’s “myths”.

Guns are tools. Some are used for hunting, some are for sport. Some are tools that can be used for evil purposes, and some are tools which can be used to stop evil.
 
The one constant throughout this thread is the lack of respect for office and authority of any sort that the gun lobby seem to have. The government machine is dodgy, the police are ineffective buffoons with no power, the defence machine is divided by factions, the ‘King of England’ is a very real threat to the constitution, other western governments are stupid and heathen to boot for denying their subjects the God given right to pack heat to do the school run. The only people the gun lobby seem to respect are armed criminals. It’s such topsy turvy reasoning.
I don’t see where you get this opinion from. Most gun-rights folks, and Tea Party folks, have a great deal of respect for the constitutionally limited government. The same constitution that gives the PEOPLE several tools to ensure the government does not become tyranical. Many of these tools are found in the first ten amendments to the constitution, including the right to bear arms.
 
I don’t see where you get this opinion from. Most gun-rights folks, and Tea Party folks, have a great deal of respect for the constitutionally limited government. The same constitution that gives the PEOPLE several tools to ensure the government does not become tyranical. Many of these tools are found in the first ten amendments to the constitution, including the right to bear arms.
But I can understand that a government could ‘become tyrannical’ in a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy or even in early democracy when the right to vote was limited to wealthy white males. Those are all threats to the universal concept of the ‘common good’, but nowadays, the government* is *the people. It’s unrealistice to think that one faction could mobilize the entire military against ‘the people’. Now it seems that the constitution has detached from that universal concept of common good and stands as an unquestionable ‘divine’ standard that can never be examined for its effect on the society it is supposed to protect.
 
You’re just angry because you have no sense of charity for the working poor who I support with my tax money.
This is really the issue … and a great sadness …

You believe that you have more compassion for the poor because you support the governments failed programs that give lip service to helping the poor with your tax dollars … This is the abrogation of your personal responsibility to assist those who are in need … while you castigate others for being heartless because they see a different path to help others - and in fact demonize them for advocating an non-government response to poverty … 😦

Boatswain2PA and others pay their taxes the same way that you do … and if they are like many people I know personally … they give substantially more money specifically to charities that assist the poor and marginalized around the world [as opposed to charities like Planned Parenthood, NARAL and the Sierra Club - who promote immorality and do little to assist the poor] and spend time working in soup kitchens, food banks, crisis pregnancy centers, etc. then those who have abrogated their responsibility to the secular government …

Your tax dollars help women remain the victim of men who use their body for sexual gratification and then coerce the murder the innocent children conceived … I know many women who have suffered from this very abuse … and whose lives are devastated as a result.

Your tax dollars allow men with children quit work when they reach a certain earnings cap - because they will loose the earned income credit and they would rather stay on a government health plan and food stamps then risk loosing that financial aid and working harder to improve their family’s standard of living … again I know many who have this practice … some in my family … too bad they don’t spend as much time budgeting and making better financial decisions as they spend knowing how to fill out the forms and apply for aid …

Me - in my bible I heard Jesus tell me to acknowledge that everything I have is a gift from my Lord … and nowhere did I read that Jesus said look to Caesar to care for the poor - petition Caesar to for aid to the poor … no … in my bible Jesus told me to care for the poor - me personally
 
But I can understand that a government could ‘become tyrannical’ in a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy or even in early democracy when the right to vote was limited to wealthy white males. Those are all threats to the universal concept of the ‘common good’, but nowadays, the government* is *the people. It’s unrealistice to think that one faction could mobilize the entire military against ‘the people’. Now it seems that the constitution has detached from that universal concept of common good and stands as an unquestionable ‘divine’ standard that can never be examined for its effect on the society it is supposed to protect.
:eek: … So the Constitution is a document that has outlived it usefulness and is detached from our present reality …

You believe that our government is so universally in tune to the ‘common good’ that it is a benevolent entity …

I wonder what all the aborted [by sanction of the government] babies would say - if they had a voice - about the ‘goodness’ of a government that allowed their murder 😦

I wonder about ‘Catholic’ hospitals being forced to offer immoral procedures like surgical abortion and the morning after pill and someday euthanasia … will the government still be benevolent in your eyes …

When your child is no longer able to bow their head and pray over their lunch in the school cafeteria - will you still believe that the government is benevolent …

When the bible you read is redacted of all the “hate speech” … what will you say then …🤷
 
:eek: … So the Constitution is a document that has outlived it usefulness and is detached from our present reality …

You believe that our government is so universally in tune to the ‘common good’ that it is a benevolent entity …

I wonder what all the aborted [by sanction of the government] babies would say - if they had a voice - about the ‘goodness’ of a government that allowed their murder 😦

I wonder about ‘Catholic’ hospitals being forced to offer immoral procedures like surgical abortion and the morning after pill and someday euthanasia … will the government still be benevolent in your eyes …

When your child is no longer able to bow their head and pray over their lunch in the school cafeteria - will you still believe that the government is benevolent …

When the bible you read is redacted of all the “hate speech” … what will you say then …🤷
The government is not by nature a ‘benevolent’ entity. It is just the ‘golden mean’. It’s authority comes from God but its laws and policies are worldly. It represents the mean of societies values and beliefs. When there is something wrong with society… like the culture of death… the government will reflect that ill, but it is not the cause of that ill. It is not a separate entity from the collective will of the people that can be conquered to solve all societies ills. That is a fantasy that harks back to a different type of public authority.

The Church considers abortion a symptom of the culture of death that permeates all levels of society. She doesn’t see it as a government plot and nor should we. We should examine the ways in which we as a society, think that the strong should prevail over the weak and that basic human rights can apply to some and not others, to understand how abortion can exist in our midst, because that’s the real catalyst for abortion.
 
The government is not by nature a ‘benevolent’ entity. It is just the ‘golden mean’. It’s authority comes from God but its laws and policies are worldly. It represents the mean of societies values and beliefs. When there is something wrong with society… like the culture of death… the government will reflect that ill, but it is not the cause of that ill. It is not a separate entity from the collective will of the people that can be conquered to solve all societies ills. That is a fantasy that harks back to a different type of public authority.

The Church considers abortion a symptom of the culture of death that permeates all levels of society. She doesn’t see it as a government plot and nor should we. We should examine the ways in which we as a society, think that the strong should prevail over the weak and that basic human rights can apply to some and not others, to understand how abortion can exist in our midst, because that’s the real catalyst for abortion.
Golden mean … what a load … sorry … just more clap trap … and why people need to depend on themselves and our Lord - ultimately and not in the government

We the people … Our governance comes at the will of the governed … or has … free people who come together … we - as a people - used to reflect the values of faith … even if lived out imperfectly … it does not now do so - precisely because our government has lost any idea that God has authority or even exists … and this becomes more and more a reality as God is pushed from the public square …

Your Golden Means - through the Supreme Court codified the killing of innocent children - ever as our founding documents declared as God [Creator] given rights [not rights given from the ‘Golden Means’] the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness …

Just as I cannot deny my Christian faith - I look to Jesus for salvation and guidance for living that Good News of Salvation … I am entrusted with family and friends for whom I am accountable to God for - along with being a good steward for all that God has given to me … I will do what I need to do to care for them … I have taken an oath to defend our Constitution from all enemies - foreign and domestic … it is not a dead document … relinquishing God given rights unnecessarily to some Golden Means in the hope that this Golden Means can protect me and my family from the evil in the world or to provide for the poor or create a Godly “State” … pure foolishness …
 
Golden mean … what a load … sorry … just more clap trap … and why people need to depend on themselves and our Lord - ultimately and not in the government

We the people … Our governance comes at the will of the governed … or has … free people who come together … we - as a people - used to reflect the values of faith … even if lived out imperfectly … it does not now do so - precisely because our government has lost any idea that God has authority or even exists … and this becomes more and more a reality as God is pushed from the public square …

Your Golden Means - through the Supreme Court codified the killing of innocent children - ever as our founding documents declared as God [Creator] given rights [not rights given from the ‘Golden Means’] the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness …

Just as I cannot deny my Christian faith - I look to Jesus for salvation and guidance for living that Good News of Salvation … I am entrusted with family and friends for whom I am accountable to God for - along with being a good steward for all that God has given to me … I will do what I need to do to care for them … I have taken an oath to defend our Constitution from all enemies - foreign and domestic … it is not a dead document … relinquishing God given rights unnecessarily to some Golden Means in the hope that this Golden Means can protect me and my family from the evil in the world or to provide for the poor or create a Godly “State” … pure foolishness …
I confess I’m a bit confused by the use of elipses and dashes and how it all connects but I’m not saying the constitution is a dead document, just that it is not divine. Everything that pertains to the public domain is answerable to the common good. It’s authority is god given but the laws and policies are concerned primarily with promoting the common good of all. The Church herself advises voters “it is morally acceptable to vote for the candidate who will do less harm.” (Priests for Life) rather than boycott due process if candidates don’t measure up to godly ideals.

It is misdirected to base your concept of evil on government policy and to think that this is the enemy that needs to be defeated.
 
Other folks here have already pointed it out, but I will try to one more time.
**
Of course owning a gun raises your risk or gun related violence**. Just like owning a car increases your risk of becoming injured in a MVA. Or bathing increasing your risk of drowning in a bathtub.

However owning a gun does not CAUSE gun related violence. Nor does owning a care CAUSE motor vehicle accidents. Nor does bathing CAUSE drowning.

Association does not equal causation. I know it’s difficult to separate fact from your intense feelings here (or any other of your liberal causes), but you can do it!
Thank you! By how much does owning a gun increase your probability of gun violence within your own household compared to using a gun to save someone’s life from a criminal?

LOVE! ❤️
 
Humans are a tribal creature, we have always had weapons of life destruction,
From spears and clubs of wood, now we have Knives & guns, we feel we must justify
Our ownership of such weaponry … We feel insecure , and find justification in Gun ownership for whatever reason, mostly because we feel it is our right,
Mass killing and other hideous crimes occurred before modern weaponry existed .
We just don’t discuss that , we only discus modern hideous crimes and find excuses to justify our ownership of guns & knives as our ancestries did long ago with there clubs of wood over the mantelpiece
 
Thank you! By how much does owning a gun increase your probability of gun violence within your own household compared to using a gun to save someone’s life from a criminal?

LOVE! ❤️
It depends on what questions you are asking. If the defense is a simple mention of having a gun, the a 1997 Department of Justice listed the number as 1.7 MILLION.

If it involves actually using the gun, in that the gun is show to the attacker, the number is about 250,000 to 370,000 per year.

ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf The section on Defensive Use of Firearms is pages 8-10

But either way, you can compare even the low rate to the rate of firearm fatalities in the US, with is in the general range of 800 suicides and 20,000 fatalities and 11,000 non fatal shootings.

So about 250,000 defensive uses of firearms, to about 31,000 shootings.
 
=YADA;Me - in my bible I heard Jesus tell me to acknowledge that everything I have is a gift from my Lord … and nowhere did I read that Jesus said look to
Caesar to care for the poor - petition Caesar to for aid to the poor … no … in my bible Jesus told me to care for the poor - me personally.
When your bible was written, what was the cost of a round of Leukemia treatment for an uninsured child? What was the cost of a CT Scan? What was a cost of a visit to an emergency room, or an emergency appendectomy? How many of these have you paid for personally? How many bake sales does it take to pay for that? How many of these would the entire collection at your church from last Sunday pay for? Probably not 1. How many such treatments were needed by the poor in your community last week? Probably a lot. You would probably have to mortgage your parish hall to pay for them all. As for paying your taxes, I don’t recall Jesus saying not to pay them.

As for the injunction you mentioned for you personally to care for the poor, how many of these treatments have you personally administered on the sick and the poor, and how many have you paid for personally?

Thank you,
Gary
 
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