10 Rules for Talking to Gays

[LVCIVS_DEI]

You are clearly very mixed up.
In one post you say all killing is wrong.
In another post you are saying not all killing is wrong.

You are mixed up about a lot of things because you think your opinion is more important than anyone else’s. That’s wrong too.

I never said my opinion is more important than anyone else’s, you are putting words in my mouth that are not mine.

 

[Catholicpotato]

No it is the interpretation of the bible.
And i am not saying i am right per definition.
I could be wrong, but i doubt it.
No offense intended.

If we all just stated opinion then there would be no Truth. at all!
The difference is mine is in line with 2000 years of my faith…
You are very fond of stating your opinion but rarely want to back it up with facts. That lessens your credibility and worth of your “opinion”

Are you a practicing Catholic?

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

If we all just stated opinion then there would be no Truth. at all!
The difference is mine is in line with 2000 years of my faith…
You are very fond of stating your opinion but rarely want to back it up with facts. That lessens your credibility and worth of your “opinion”

Are you a practicing Catholic?

I believe so.
I pray at my home altar and i believe in the creed.

 

[Catholicpotato]

I believe so.
I pray at my home altar and i believe in the creed.

There is more to it than that… But things are starting to make sense now…

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

There is more to it than that… But things are starting to make sense now…

You are going to condemn me as a heretic, blasphemer or anathema now right?

 

[Catholicpotato]

You are going to condemn me as a heretic, blasphemer or anathema now right?

Not at all. I actually have more of an insight. I would encourage you to use these forums as a place of camaraderie and education. I know I do!
You are in my prayers!

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Not at all. I actually have more of an insight. I would encourage you to use these forums as a place of camaraderie and education. I know I do!
You are in my prayers!

Thanks i guess…
Well it is not my intention to sound arrogant but i cant just ignore my conscience and blindly obey the clergy.
If that is wrong than i will gladly explain that to the lord when i face him.
PS: Do you know who i pray for?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

**Dakota

I’m not saying the Old Testament is invalid I’m saying that the laws in it are no longer in force.**

The Ten Commandments are no longer in force?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: “The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments.”

I am of course referring to the Law of Moses

The other commandments of the** Decalogue are precepts of the natural law, obligatory at all times and unalterable. Hence, after the abrogation of the Law of Moses, all the Commandments contained in the two tables are observed by Christians, not indeed because their observance is commanded by Moses, but because they are in conformity with nature which dictates obedience to them.**

This Commandment about the observance of the sabbath, on the other hand, considered as to the time appointed for its fulfillment, is not fixed and unalterable, but susceptible of change and belongs not to the moral, but the ceremonial law. Neither is it a principle of the natural law; we are not instructed by nature to give external worship to God on that day, rather than on any other. And in fact the sabbath was kept holy only from the time of the liberation of the people of Israel from the bondage of Pharaoh.

The observance of the sabbath was to be abrogated at the same time as the other Hebrew rites and ceremonies, that is, at the death of Christ. . . . Hence St. Paul, in his epistle to the Galatians, when reproving the observers of the Mosaic rites, says: “You observe days and months and times and years; I am afraid of you lest perhaps I have labored in vain amongst you” (Gal 4:10). And he writes to the same effect to the Colossians (Col 2:16).

catholic.com/quickquestions/did-jesus-alter-the-commandment-about-observing-the-sabbath

 

[Catholicpotato]

Thanks i guess…
Well it is not my intention to sound arrogant but i cant just ignore my conscience and blindly obey the clergy.
If that is wrong than i will gladly explain that to the lord when i face him.
PS: Do you know who i pray for?

Just make sure your conscience is formed correctly. That is your only responsibility. That is what you and I will answer for…

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Thanks i guess…
Well it is not my intention to sound arrogant but i cant just ignore my conscience and blindly obey the clergy.
If that is wrong than i will gladly explain that to the lord when i face him.
PS: Do you know who i pray for?

I do not blindly obey the clergy either, if I have problems with what they say I research why the say that, when I find the why it always makes sense. My extensive research into the faith is because my faith is based on reason and not on touchy-feely stuff or blind obedience.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

I do not blindly obey the clergy either, if I have problems with what they say I research why the say that, when I find the why it always makes sense. My extensive research into the faith is because my faith is based on reason and not on touchy-feely stuff or blind obedience.

I have thought 6 months about on this subject before i formed my opinion on it.
And if the church leaders think i am wrong than so be it.
And i prayed for wisdom every day i looked into it.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I have thought 6 months about on this subject before i formed my opinion on it.
And if the church leaders think i am wrong than so be it.
And i prayed for wisdom every day i looked into it.

Ok, but don’t you think that the leaders thought. . . and prayed. for wisdom. . .too? Not just for themselves (like you are doing), but knowing that as leaders they would be held responsible for the souls of billions of people?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I have thought 6 months about on this subject before i formed my opinion on it.
And if the church leaders think i am wrong than so be it.
And i prayed for wisdom every day i looked into it.

And how many dozens of hours of research did you put in?

 

[NeedImprovement]

OK for serious discussion I’ll play.

Essentially you’re right (about God converting people). My point was, as clumsy as it was, was that chastising an active gay person (I will clarify, I thought it was assumed that we’re talking sexually-active gays, not gays leading a chaste life), or taking them to a Mass sung in Gregorian chant, have about an equal chance of converting that person, which is approximately zero . But at least the Mass in Gregorian chant won’t do any harm, whereas chastising the person you’re trying to dialogue with may drive him/her away…

(Re: “I’ll play” ) : Okay OraLabora. I’m willing to give it (serious discussion) a try, solely with you - Let’s see how far we get …:yup:

Regarding the section quoted above :To bring it up to speed. There has been so much empty arguing going on since you posted this comment , and far too often for my liking those arguments remain in the abstract (arguments of the thread in general - not your arguments). For such a serious subject, the abstract doesn’t present us with a whole lot that is directly useful in pertinent practicality. Furthermore the abstract is often used to promote (commonly indirect) arguments which can’t be answered – because they aren’t specific. When used in this manner, as you can judge from this thread alone, the abstract promotes a sense of ambiguity…which leads to confusion

I don’t know if you’ve ever had the opportunity to read one of the biographies written about St. André Bessette (Frère André/Brother André) entitled Brother Andre: The Wonder Man of Mount Royal by Henri-Paul Bergeron,. Some of the accounts of the people who came to him for counsel recorded in that book are real eye-openers… He was known to be brusque with some of the pilgrims, particularly incredulous or immodest ones - but not only these ; by his own admission, he was “impatient”. However it didn’t stop from God working through him… didn’t even slow God down. His biography states that miracles were a daily occurrence when the sick and afflicted went to St. Joseph’s Oratory to consult Brother André. The only time there weren’t any miracles was when the curious showed up.

One story recounted (I’m paraphrasing – book isn’t in front of me at the moment) in the biography is of a man, who was supposed to have a leg amputated and had gone to consult St. André. The good Brother recommended to the man that instead of having his leg amputated, he could make a novena to St. Joseph, beginning with Confession and reception of Holy Communion at Mass . The man agreed and complied. However he came back on the eighth day of his novena to tell Brother André that he was packing it in. He said he was giving up because he hadn’t been healed by the eighth day, and was met with the retort from Brother André, “ Very well, shall I call up the surgeon for you?” , which directly caused the man to leave the office in a state of serious discontent. But even after leaving the office so upset , the man still came back, was still willing to begin another novena and, it is implied, that this man received his cure.

Even if you haven’t had or don’t get a chance to read the biography of Brother André , please consider what you yourself have said. These are your own words :

I also know though, that moralizing didn’t work with me. In the end it was the realization of my own brokenness that brought me to God.

You ended up realizing your “own brokenness” , despite whatever “moralizing” (which you claim didn’t work took place) . That’s God – working despite our human weakness – human weakness on the part of all parties involved (but emphasis on “moralizers” here ).

Everyone else who is trying to order us how we must speak has (very conveniently) left out that part – that, even if someone is spoken to in a brusque manner or turned away, or whatever], whatever the person’s reaction may be, there’s still every chance God will effect a conversion in that person anyway – as was your case. (conversion , in the sense of a turning , since each of our conversions is actually a life-long process ) So to me, people are presenting an unbalanced argument. If they only say the first part :

… have about an equal chance of converting that person, which is approximately zero.

• Without adding that God also works with broken tools to create his masterpieces and nothing can stop something if it is His will – specifically in this case, human weakness , then we aren’t telling the whole story ; ergo not telling the true story. I further believe that the chance of the person getting converted in these (what shall we call them - “negative scenarios”?) is not zero - far from it. Look at the story taken from Brother André’s biography. If we truly consider how God works - He can take a misunderstanding and use it to everyone’s advantage. I think a lot of people on this thread are selling God short.

I recall that they were saying that same thing about St. Paul , that he couldn’t be converted– even after his conversion – and they were even saying it to God . This is where I believe all this accusatory agglomeration about driving people away does a disservice to God . People are implying that we must speak a certain way , or we are going to disable God – we are going to somehow limit his saving power . :dts:

 

[HaveCourage]

Posts with any reasonable substance pertaining to the topic heading have been buried by posts debating other things.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

Ok, but don’t you think that the leaders thought. . . and prayed. for wisdom. . .too? Not just for themselves (like you are doing), but knowing that as leaders they would be held responsible for the souls of billions of people?

I am not doubting that, but even they can make mistakes.
Like i said before in the case of Honorius I.
I am not saying i am impeccable i am just defending my conscience.
And if that is wrong or immoral than i will gladly justify myself at the gates of heaven.

 

[LVCIVS_DEI]

And how many dozens of hours of research did you put in?

About 3 hours of every week.

 

[Spyral]

I read threads like these and feel dispair at the lack of love and the sheer anger and hatred exhibited.