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Marc_Anthony
Guest
Out of curiosity, what is your position on it?
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Deo_Volente
Guest
Grace and Peace!
I don’t think that leaving the sphere of public policy altogether would be particularly edifying–a little leaven leavens the whole, and we can be that leaven! But I do think there’s a danger in over-identifying with our political or policy positions. Our politics are so divisive, but we’re called to be peacemakers. So how do we do that?
For my own communion (Episcopal Church), I feel that a return to solid Eucharistic theology would do us a lot of good. One of my favorite quotations is this from Bishop Weston to the Anglo-Catholic Congress in 1923:“But I say to you, and I say it with all the earnestness that I have, if you are prepared to fight for the right of adoring Jesus in His Blessed Sacrament, then, when you come out from before your tabernacles, you must walk with Christ, mystically present in you through the streets of this country, and find the same Christ in the peoples of your cities and villages. You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the tabernacle, if you do not pity Jesus in the slums … It is folly – it is madness – to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments and Jesus on the throne of glory, when you are sweating him in the souls and bodies of his children.”
For +Weston, all social justice comes from the Eucharist. It is our recognition of Christ in the Sacrament which allows us to see Christ in others and which demands that we respond to the world in a certain way, a way characterized by love. I think the Episcopal Church has gotten this backwards–we’re very comfortable articulating positions on social justice issues, but they’re not exactly grounded in a solid Eucharistic theology which could guide what those positions might be and moderate or temper well-meaning but unhelpful (or scandalous or even heretical) mere “do-gooding.” Indeed, if we had the theology, articulating the position would be moot–we would simply do the thing that the Eucharist demands we do: pour ourselves out for others, break for the sake of others.
(NB: I’m fully aware that Roman Catholics must affirm Apostolicae Curae.)
Re: what I feel the RCC should do or return to, I don’t know that it’s my place, exactly, to say. What I will say, though, is that I’ve noticed that there is something more juridical about RCC practice which I’ve found personally perplexing. That’s neither good or bad in itself, but I think it leads to a lot of casuistry and to a moral rigidity which can at times appear, frankly, ugly because inhuman.
I’m sorry I don’t have precise answers, but I’m thinking through all of this (and examining my own behavior, attitudes and positions and what I would like them to be…) as we go along.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
Good questions, Marc. I’ve gotten as far as thinking through what I perceive to be a problem but haven’t yet come up with a discrete solution…though I’ve a feeling that the solution looks like the witness of the martyrs whose patient love, willing to suffer all things, bear all things, and even do penance for all, toppled an Empire and conquered the world.
I don’t think that leaving the sphere of public policy altogether would be particularly edifying–a little leaven leavens the whole, and we can be that leaven! But I do think there’s a danger in over-identifying with our political or policy positions. Our politics are so divisive, but we’re called to be peacemakers. So how do we do that?
For my own communion (Episcopal Church), I feel that a return to solid Eucharistic theology would do us a lot of good. One of my favorite quotations is this from Bishop Weston to the Anglo-Catholic Congress in 1923:“But I say to you, and I say it with all the earnestness that I have, if you are prepared to fight for the right of adoring Jesus in His Blessed Sacrament, then, when you come out from before your tabernacles, you must walk with Christ, mystically present in you through the streets of this country, and find the same Christ in the peoples of your cities and villages. You cannot claim to worship Jesus in the tabernacle, if you do not pity Jesus in the slums … It is folly – it is madness – to suppose that you can worship Jesus in the Sacraments and Jesus on the throne of glory, when you are sweating him in the souls and bodies of his children.”
For +Weston, all social justice comes from the Eucharist. It is our recognition of Christ in the Sacrament which allows us to see Christ in others and which demands that we respond to the world in a certain way, a way characterized by love. I think the Episcopal Church has gotten this backwards–we’re very comfortable articulating positions on social justice issues, but they’re not exactly grounded in a solid Eucharistic theology which could guide what those positions might be and moderate or temper well-meaning but unhelpful (or scandalous or even heretical) mere “do-gooding.” Indeed, if we had the theology, articulating the position would be moot–we would simply do the thing that the Eucharist demands we do: pour ourselves out for others, break for the sake of others.
(NB: I’m fully aware that Roman Catholics must affirm Apostolicae Curae.)
Re: what I feel the RCC should do or return to, I don’t know that it’s my place, exactly, to say. What I will say, though, is that I’ve noticed that there is something more juridical about RCC practice which I’ve found personally perplexing. That’s neither good or bad in itself, but I think it leads to a lot of casuistry and to a moral rigidity which can at times appear, frankly, ugly because inhuman.
My fear is that our overwhelming concern for these issues is blinding and distracting. And I’m not saying “blinding us to the need to do charity.” I’m saying that too often we identify ourselves with these tightly held positions, with our carefully crafted rhetoric. Eventually, we will find our identity as dependent on some ideological enemy or other, and who we are will be wrapped up in who we are against. Toeing the line will become the only measure of our love, our devotion, our orthodoxy–we’ll forget that the creeds and doctrines of the church are not sitting around waiting for us to intellectually assent to them, but are actively inviting us to *live *them. We will forget that God is not on our side particularly, but on the side of humanity wholly. We will forget that who we are is truly to be found in Jesus Christ who was certainly no “liberal,” nor was he a “conservative.” Our Kingdom, our Home, is not of this world. The modern liberal state and all of its politicking and polemicizing, all of its demogoguery and rhetoric is doomed. It won’t last. Being part of that deadly and dying culture by debating it on its own terms, or by buying into its values won’t do us a bit of good. For a start, maybe we would all do well to pray the prayer of St. Thomas Moore: “Give me grace, Good Lord, to set the world at nought.” And perhaps we could remember, too, in the midst of all our heated anxieties over policy or polemic, the words of Our Lord to Mother Julian: “All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.”
I’m sorry I don’t have precise answers, but I’m thinking through all of this (and examining my own behavior, attitudes and positions and what I would like them to be…) as we go along.
Under the Mercy,
Mark
All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
S
someperson555
Guest
J
Jonatello
Guest
that’s debatable, but since when is government attack the measure of relevance?
J
Jonatello
Guest
and perhaps the priorities of the faithful is also a worthy topic in its own rightPerhaps you should start one about the poor.
C
Corki
Guest
The measure of what makes for interesting discussion on an internet forum is not relevance.
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Jonatello
Guest
ok, how does government attacking something become the primary factor determining whether it makes for an interesting discussionThe measure of what makes for interesting discussion on an internet forum is not relevance.
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Corki
Guest
It’s not an automatic consideration. But if the government attacks something, there is inherrent controversy and controversy usually makes for interesting discussion.
C
Corki
Guest
Now, THAT’S a great topic. If you have seen the thread about the Bishop in Illlinois, there a a series of posts regarding how Catholics are to prioritize their duties. You could open that up as its own discussion.
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He_Man
Guest
If the homosexual militants didn’t raise the issue to the front of the national scene on a daily basis, i doubt you’d see so many topics.
Same reason the Church was much quieter in the past, since it was never thrown in their face.
I assume if the number of topics bother you, you must be angry at the homosexual community for raising the issue then? Or is your angst one-sided?
Same reason the Church was much quieter in the past, since it was never thrown in their face.
I assume if the number of topics bother you, you must be angry at the homosexual community for raising the issue then? Or is your angst one-sided?
H
He_Man
Guest
Not to mention, we are capable of doing multiple good things for God at once. Fighting poverty, and defending society from the lies of Satan.
Hence why Moses didn’t get a copy of the “One Commandment.”
We can multi-task.
F
fix
Guest
Common sense.
A
atassina
Guest
The homosexual union issue is a pro-life issue. Pro-life missionaries all over the world are defending the basic right to life as well as defending the true nature of the cradle of life- the natural family. The forces of death and destruction want to destroy the foundation of society and force their own vision of reality on the crumbled foundation of the society which they destroyed.
Our victory is in the Cross and Resurrection.
Our victory is in the Cross and Resurrection.
M
MarkInOregon
Guest
Is there any controversy regarding Matthew 25:35-40? I mean are there people out there advocating that we don’t feed the hungry etc.? Is feeding the hungry under assault? Are there groups out there trying to pass laws to make it illegal to have soup kitchens? There is a fight going on in this country over what marriage is–that is why you have all the threads. If there was a serious challenge to feeding the poor–I think you’d see more threads about that.
Peace,
Mark
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