100% Belief?

[ralphinal]

Agreed…

Some folks think that since it’s the way THEY see it, it’s right. For me, knowing I’m nowhere close to being the sole authority on the subject, I have to question my own thoughts/beliefs as to why I think or believe the way I do. That’s the part I’m still trying to figure out…because I can certainly be wrong.

that last line is one that most people have trouble with. It is a sign of a very mature person to admit that they can be wrong and mean it. We all have some level of pride in ourselves. Sometimes, that gets in the way.

In the end, it goes to your question. IF you do not accept a teaching, how do you know that your answer is the right one?

 

[teancum79]

I would make room for the very young and inexperienced, but if you don’t believe what is begin taught why are you a part of it?

 

[mercygate]

I apologize for the vague subject, I don’t know how else to word it without going into detail…which I’ll try do here in the post.

Do you feel that you have to believe in 100% of a denomination’s beliefs to be considered really a part of your particular denomination? (I know Catholics don’t consider Catholocism a denomination, but I’m including it here just for the sake of the question)

For example, I’m Lutheran, so obviously there’s a little bit of the Catholic doctrine that I don’t agree with(very small bit), as well as Baptist etc. On the other hand, I can’t say that I agree with 100% of Lutheran doctrine either. In all, I’m more in line with the Lutheran church than any other, or else I wouldn’t be Lutheran. But does that make me not Lutheran? Or I guess a better question for this Catholic site, if I were to convert to Catholicism, and still not believe in EVERY piece of doctrine, would I “really” be Catholic?

I think anybody can say they’re 100% in agreement with their particular denomination, but I think some folks just say that because they’re supposed to, or because their particular denomination teaches so.

Staying faithful to your beliefs isn’t always easy of course, so I understand it can be a challenge all the time. But what about when it takes years(if ever) before someone totally agrees with one particular teaching? Wrong or right, it may not be an instant realization.

Thoughts?

Just speaking in the Catholic milieu, – actually this applies to any Christian communion – We must all believe in the Person of Jesus Christ to redeem and save. For Catholics, we also believe that the Church has from Him the authority to define “the faith”. Believing THAT is the key thing.

Finding a church that is “closest to what you believe” is backwards. First you identify the truth, and then you figure out how to put yourself in line with it.

When I became Catholic, I had a couple of niggling reservations about certain doctrines but having come to the realization that the Catholic Church is uniquely authorized to speak with the assurance of faith, I just sucked it up and said: OK. You win.

I have not had a single moment of regret.

 

[Annie_B]

I cannot say that I agree 100% with the Catholic church, mostly because I am still learning alot about it…What I do know, I ~mostly~ agree with.

Annie

 

[Lilyflower]

My sentiment is that if you get to the point of believing the Catholic Church is the true Church with the Spirit’s guarantee to teach doctrine infallibly, then to reject one of those doctrines would be to reject what the Church is.

I can see where you are coming from but I do not agree with you. I think it is healthy to question. It is by questioning that the Holy Spirit leads us into truth. This is not to deny the CC, just to maintain a healthy attitude so that those areas that are problematic can become clearer.

Far better to question and seek answers than just accept. The former leads to deeper conversion and conviction, the latter apathy

Blessings and peace

 

[mercygate]

I can see where you are coming from but I do not agree with you. I think it is healthy to question. It is by questioning that the Holy Spirit leads us into truth. This is not to deny the CC, just to maintain a healthy attitude so that those areas that are problematic can become clearer.

Far better to question and seek answers than just accept. The former leads to deeper conversion and conviction, the latter apathy

Blessings and peace

MarcoPolo didn’t say not to question. He said that once you figure out that the Church IS THE Church, then you can accept her teaching, even before you fully understand it. If you don’t understand 90% of the basic, then you’re not ready to be a member of whatever group you are approaching, but once you TRUST the organization, you can commit to it without fear.

It comes down to “I believe that I may understand” rather than asking to understand BEFORE you are willing to believe.

Good grief. Everybody should always be questioning, learning and growing. Questioning is not necessarily challenging.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Good grief. Everybody should always be questioning, learning and growing. Questioning is not necessarily challenging.

Indeed, thanks for clarifying that for me. “Questioning” is not “rejecting” which is what I said.

 

[Adam14]

I would make room for the very young and inexperienced, but if you don’t believe what is begin taught why are you a part of it?

I’m not VERY young (28), but perhaps inexperienced to some standards…but I don’t think it’s relevant.

I’m “part of it” because I DO believe in what is being taught, but when it comes to differences between my denomination and say, Catholicism, I’m not 100% convinced who is right.

I’m not going to reject all of it just because I don’t understand it. My misunderstanding of something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Do you feel that you have to believe in 100% of a denomination’s beliefs to be considered really a part of your particular denomination?

Well, most Protestants I have come across don’t believe in 100% of their faith tradition’s beliefs and they have no problem with that dissent because they do not look to the church as the interpreted authority of Christian doctrine, but the Bible as the final interpreted authority. Actually, the more I think about it, I have yet to meet a Protestant that believes everything their denomination teaches.

Adam14:

In all, I’m more in line with the Lutheran church than any other, or else I wouldn’t be Lutheran. But does that make me not Lutheran?

Well, I think it might depend on what your branch of Lutheranism teaches. For example, I know the WELS practice closed communion - in other words they will not participate in other Lutheran services because of disagreement on some theological points with other Lutheran branches. If you agree with the LCMS on a certain viewpoint and the WELS won’t commune with them on that point, you might not be considered a WELS Lutheran if you agree with that point. But - I am not an expert on that. Perhaps you could ask this particular question on a WELS or LCMS site. I think ELCA might have their own web site as well.

Adam14:

Or I guess a better question for this Catholic site, if I were to convert to Catholicism, and still not believe in EVERY piece of doctrine, would I “really” be Catholic?

If you deliberately reject Catholic doctrine, there may be a problem. For example, if you say that the Pope is not the head of the Christian Church appointed by Jesus Christ, why would you want to be Catholic since that is what we believe as Catholics? Now if you have doubts about your faith, but still trust, despite your doubts, now that seems to me not a deliberate rejection of the faith even though you might not have 100% settled your mind regarding the teachings.

 

[Adam14]

Just speaking in the Catholic milieu, – actually this applies to any Christian communion – We must all believe in the Person of Jesus Christ to redeem and save. For Catholics, we also believe that the Church has from Him the authority to define “the faith”. Believing THAT is the key thing.

Finding a church that is “closest to what you believe” is backwards. First you identify the truth, and then you figure out how to put yourself in line with it.

When I became Catholic, I had a couple of niggling reservations about certain doctrines but having come to the realization that the Catholic Church is uniquely authorized to speak with the assurance of faith, I just sucked it up and said: OK. You win.

I have not had a single moment of regret.

Thanks for the comments, and good points. I do believe it’s not always a bad thing to question things, and I based of one of your other posts in this thread, I think you agree.

But I sort of disagree(respectfully) with your comment about joining a church that’s “closest to what you believe”. Had I not done this, I wouldn’t be baptised right now, and not sure when that would take place just because I don’t know when/if I’ll figure it all out to where I agree 100% with all teachings. Agreeing and accepting are 2 different things. If I only accept, then I may not be in agreement…which takes it right back to the original question I posed.

 

[Adam14]

Well, most Protestants I have come across don’t believe in 100% of their faith tradition’s beliefs and they have no problem with that dissent because they do not look to the church as the interpreted authority of Christian doctrine, but the Bible as the final interpreted authority. Actually, the more I think about it, I have yet to meet a Protestant that believes everything their denomination teaches.

Well, I think it might depend on what your branch of Lutheranism teaches. For example, I know the WELS practice closed communion - in other words they will not participate in other Lutheran services because of disagreement on some theological points with other Lutheran branches. If you agree with the LCMS on a certain viewpoint and the WELS won’t commune with them on that point, you might not be considered a WELS Lutheran if you agree with that point. But - I am not an expert on that. Perhaps you could ask this particular question on a WELS or LCMS site. I think ELCA might have their own web site as well.

If you deliberately reject Catholic doctrine, there may be a problem. For example, if you say that the Pope is not the head of the Christian Church appointed by Jesus Christ, why would you want to be Catholic since that is what we believe as Catholics? Now if you have doubts about your faith, but still trust, despite your doubts, now that seems to me not a deliberate rejection of the faith even though you might not have 100% settled your mind regarding the teachings.

Excellent points also…thanks! Your last paragraph pretty much sums it up I think, and I agree with you.

 

[mercygate]

Thanks for the comments, and good points. I do believe it’s not always a bad thing to question things, and I based of one of your other posts in this thread, I think you agree.

But I sort of disagree(respectfully) with your comment about joining a church that’s “closest to what you believe”. Had I not done this, I wouldn’t be baptised right now, and not sure when that would take place just because I don’t know when/if I’ll figure it all out to where I agree 100% with all teachings. Agreeing and accepting are 2 different things. If I only accept, then I may not be in agreement…which takes it right back to the original question I posed.

Yes. You make an important distinction between “agreeing with” and “accepting.”

I fnd that so much of Catholic teaching is SO well thought out, so carefully developed, so painstakingly crafted, that ultimately I come to “agree” even though I might initially “accept” but grudgingly.

 

[Lilyflower]

MarcoPolo didn’t say not to question. He said that once you figure out that the Church IS THE Church, then you can accept her teaching, even before you fully understand it. If you don’t understand 90% of the basic, then you’re not ready to be a member of whatever group you are approaching, but once you TRUST the organization, you can commit to it without fear.

It comes down to “I believe that I may understand” rather than asking to understand BEFORE you are willing to believe.

Good grief. Everybody should always be questioning, learning and growing. Questioning is not necessarily challenging.

 

[SedesDomi]

Do you feel that you have to believe in 100% of a denomination’s beliefs to be considered really a part of your particular denomination?

What do you mean by “believe”?

 

[Adam14]

What do you mean by “believe”?

SedesDomi,

Sometimes I struggle expressing my questions or thoughts on a message board. So I guess I’ll try a hypothetical situation for an example…

Let’s say I go through RCIA, and convert to Catholicism. After this happens, what if I agree with everything the church teaches except pergatory? In this case, I’d agree and believe in most of the teachings, except one…which in my opinion, is pretty significant and correct me if I’m wrong, one of the important parts of Catholic beliefs. Personally, I think it would be difficult to consider myself a real Catholic without being in total agreement with the church on pergatory.

This same “hypothetical” situation is actually really happening to me right now, only with the Lutheran church. I want to do what is right, but I can’t figure out which one I totally agree with(right now it’s niether)

Thanks to several great responses to my question earlier, I think most agree that it comes down to accepting and praying that I understand and agree in time.

 

[mercygate]

SedesDomi,

Sometimes I struggle expressing my questions or thoughts on a message board. So I guess I’ll try a hypothetical situation for an example…

Let’s say I go through RCIA, and convert to Catholicism. After this happens, what if I agree with everything the church teaches except pergatory? In this case, I’d agree and believe in most of the teachings, except one…which in my opinion, is pretty significant and correct me if I’m wrong, one of the important parts of Catholic beliefs. Personally, I think it would be difficult to consider myself a real Catholic without being in total agreement with the church on pergatory.

This same “hypothetical” situation is actually really happening to me right now, only with the Lutheran church. I want to do what is right, but I can’t figure out which one I totally agree with(right now it’s niether)

Thanks to several great responses to my question earlier, I think most agree that it comes down to accepting and praying that I understand and agree in time.

The Lord will let you know when you are ready. Don’t worry about that at this point. Nobody is sticking a clock in your throat. Take your own time.

 

[SedesDomi]

SedesDomi,

Sometimes I struggle expressing my questions or thoughts on a message board. So I guess I’ll try a hypothetical situation for an example…

Let’s say I go through RCIA, and convert to Catholicism. After this happens, what if I agree with everything the church teaches except pergatory? In this case, I’d agree and believe in most of the teachings, except one…which in my opinion, is pretty significant and correct me if I’m wrong, one of the important parts of Catholic beliefs. Personally, I think it would be difficult to consider myself a real Catholic without being in total agreement with the church on pergatory.

This same “hypothetical” situation is actually really happening to me right now, only with the Lutheran church. I want to do what is right, but I can’t figure out which one I totally agree with(right now it’s niether)

Thanks to several great responses to my question earlier, I think most agree that it comes down to accepting and praying that I understand and agree in time.

Take a look at the etymology of the word “believe”:

believe: Old English belyfan, earlier geleafa (Mercian), *gelefa *(Northumbrian), gelyfan (W.Saxon) “believe,” from Proto-Germanic *ga-laubjan “hold dear, love,” from Proto-Indo-European base *leubh- “to like, desire” (from which also comes the word: love)

To believe, is, essentially, to love. You can’t really believe someone until you love that someone. So belief doesn’t really mean that you necessarily intellectually accept certain particular statements; it means that you’ve accepted that person into your heart, and are willing to live with that person on a daily basis – that you love that person.

So one question you might want to ask: do I love the Catholic Church, to the extent that I would want to live with Her on a daily basis?

 

[NDfan]

Protestants don’t have to, it wouldn’t make sense. If every person is supposed to interpret scripture for himself (a protestant belief) then why would you accept one denomination 100%?

Where in the world do you get that every protestant is SUPPOSED to interpret scripture for him or herself?? This kind of non-sense is what further causes division.

Catholics believe that the Church is protected from error and teaches infallibly, so if we believe that, it makes sense that we believe in 100% of what it teaches. Why would anyone disagree with the Holy Spirit?

That may sound good to you but unforunately there are too many Roman Catholics that don’t even come close to believing everything the RCC teaches. It’s not a matter of disagreeing with the Holy Spirit. It’s believing the Holy Spirit is not creating that teaching. Big Difference.

PEACE

 

[Adam14]

…So one question you might want to ask: do I love the Catholic Church, to the extent that I would want to live with Her on a daily basis?

I have to be honest, the more I’m learning about the Catholic Church, the closer I’m feeling drawn to it. I can’t really expain it though. Again, I want to do what is right. Right now I think I** may be getting in my own way, with all this confusion of trying to understand everything. God is doing something to me right now, I just have to pray for the patience and discipline to open my eyes and ears so I can follow the way I’m supposed to. Since I can’t figure it out, I feel guilty, almost as if I’m rejecting, but I’m not. I wish I was better at words so I could do a better job of explaining.

Thanks for everyone’s comments to my original question…you’ve all been very helpful.