101 alleged heresies of John Paul II

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A sedevacantist sent me this link to a website containing a list of 101 alleged heresies of Pope John Paul II. At first these look like genuine heresies, I’m not overly sure how to respond to them.

Although, when I look into some of the quote references I can’t find the quotes from the list, for example:
Heresies of John Paul II
1.The Catholic Church Lacks Unity.
UUS:7-10

Truth of Divine and Catholic Faith
1.Christian unity is the Catholic Church.
Pius XI, MA:3,15.
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I assumed that by “MA” it meant Mortalium Animos, Pope Pius XI’s encyclical on religious unity. However paragraph 3 says “But some are more easily deceived by the outward appearance of good when there is question of fostering unity among all Christians.”, which is nothing like what the webite said, and there isn’t even a paragraph 15.

So I’m not sure about this. How do I refute this?

Disclaimer: I am NOT a sedevacantist.
 
As you can see by the first, example, they’re essentially just making things up. The very sections of Ut Unum Sint they cite discuss the unity bestowed on Christ’s one Church and then he speaks of how he desires all who call themselves Christians to partake of that unity. I think you’ll find the same kinds of misunderstandings in each example.

That’s basically what it takes to refute them all–or you can not waste time with such vain disputes…
 
Just looking over the list, you can prove a lot of other Popes are heretics too. For example, in his catechism, St. Pius X says Muslims worship the one God (in fact, so does St. Gregory VII and a great many other Popes and Saints, Islam has always been treated, Judaism or Christian heresies or like the pagans in Acts 17 who worship one God).

Another example is praying with heretics for unity. Pope Leo XIII established the Confraternity of Compassion for praying with separated Christians for unity. Likewise, Pius XII authorized Catholics to participate in meetings for unity provided the faith was not compromised (as John Paul II says in Ut Unum Sint as well).

Freedom of Conscience is being used in different ways. Newman explains this here (to those accusing Gregory XVI and Pius IX of changing Catholic teaching):

newmanreader.org/works/anglicans/volume2/gladstone/section5.html

Baptized people in good faith have always been considered united to the Church–in fact, Trent and Florence anathemitze those who say heretics do not have true Baptisms and they both teach that Baptism is the door by which we enter the Body of Christ.

Other quotes are just kind of dumb–like saying God doesn’t love all men or implying the word “great” in regards to religions describes their relative merit rather than their physical size/population.

All the accusations follow these same patterns of confusing terms, misunderstanding the meaning of past and present explanations of doctrines, ascribing an immutable character to things that are not, or simply misstating what was said.
 
All you need to consider is that the Church will most probably canonized Pope John Paul II and second, he is already being called Pope John Paul the Great, an honor rarely bestowed on any pope.

These allegations are as much of a fantasy as the 101 Dalmations.
 
I just found in Ut Unum Sint “It is a unity constituted by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments and hierarchical communion.” This is completely the opposite of what the sedevacantists are saying he said.

Good work chaps, keep it coming, I’ll say all this in my response.
 
I love this one:

71.

All nations form but one community.
CCC:842, 10/11/1992
Heresy: all nations form but one community.
Pius XII, MC:18

Pius XII wrote a whole encyclical on the unity of the human race–in fact he says they form one family.

Here is what the CCC section says:

842All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

Here is what Pius XII teaches in Summi Pontificatus (on the unity of the human family).
  1. The Apostle of the Gentiles later on makes himself the herald of this truth which associates men as brothers in one great family, when he proclaims to the Greek world that God “hath made of one, all mankind, to dwell upon the whole face of the earth, determining appointed times, and the limits of their habitation, that they should seek God” (Acts xvii. 26, 27).
  2. A marvelous vision, which makes us see the human race in the unity of one common origin in God “one God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in us all” (Ephesians iv. 6); in the unity of nature which in every man is equally composed of material body and spiritual, immortal soul; in the unity of the immediate end and mission in the world; in the unity of dwelling place, the earth, of whose resources all men can by natural right avail themselves, to sustain and develop life; in the unity of the supernatural end, God Himself, to Whom all should tend; in the unity of means to secure that end.
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vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20101939_summi-pontificatus_en.html
 
Not to beat that one example #71 to much, but here Pius XII specifically talks about the community of nations:
  1. Nevertheless, even these peoples must have a well-founded hope – commensurate to their effective collaboration in the work of reconstruction – of being able, together with the other states with equal consideration and with the same rights, to be associated with the great community of nations.
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papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12XMAS.HTM

As an side, in the same address encyclical he praises international governing bodies which goes to refute some other allegations in the list:
  1. The decisions already published by international commissions permit one to conclude that an essential point in any future international arrangement would be the formation of an organ for the maintenance of peace, of an organ invested by common consent with supreme power to whose office it would also pertain to smother in its germinal state any threat of isolated or collective aggression.
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I don’t have time right now to go through all of them, but if you have any stumpers and you don’t get help here (which of course is highly unlikely! 🙂 ), you can PM me 🙂
 
Genesis315 said:
Not to beat that one example #71 to much, but here Pius XII specifically talks about the community of nations:

papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12XMAS.HTM

As an side, in the same address encyclical he praises international governing bodies which goes to refute some other allegations in the list:
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Also the quote from No. 71: MC:18 actually condemns nothing as heresy and doen’t even talk about the community of nations.

Here’s what it actually says:
  1. Now we see that the human body is given the proper means to provide for its own life, health and growth, and for that of all its members. Similarly, the Savior of mankind out of His infinite goodness has provided in a wonderful way for His Mystical Body, endowing it with the Sacraments, so that, as though by an uninterrupted series of graces, its members should be sustained from birth to death, and that generous provision might be made for the social needs of the Church. Through the waters of Baptism those who are born into this world dead in sin are not only born again and made members of the Church, but being stamped with a spiritual seal they become able and fit to receive the other Sacraments. By the chrism of Confirmation, the faithful are given added strength to protect and defend the Church, their Mother, and the faith she has given them. In the Sacrament of Penance a saving medicine is offered for the members of the Church who have fallen into sin, not only to provide for their own health, but to remove from other members of the Mystical Body all danger of contagion, or rather to afford them an incentive to virtue, and the example of a virtuous act.
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Could someone shed some comfort?

I have been told, and I have seen the alleged photo (one with JPII doing a level 30, or something, mason handshake), that JPII was a mason, even though he issued a statement saying that being a Mason is against the Church.

I have strong beliefs that JPII was not a mason, and it makes me mad when people convict him of it. He told all Catholics that to be a Mason is wrong. Anybody have a definitive answer to this dilemma?
 
This may be just a little off-topic, but I’ve heard so much from certain quarters regarding Pope John Paul - someone on the CA forums even had the temerity to judge him a “terrible pope”. I can’t be quiet any longer. These people claim to want to return to the pre-Vatican II Church, but in pre-Vatican II days, no Catholic would have had the audacity to criticize even the parish priest, much less the pope. Whatever validity there might otherwise be to anything they say is completely invalidated by their hubris. They are weakening the unity of the Church, not strengthening it, and that is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
We can see the necessity of prayer. I too feel as you do. How do these individuals feel they have the authority to speak as they do is beyond me It screams of the necessity of prayer for these people that they will receive the grace of correct thinking and adhere to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church. Not to some warped heresy.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
It seems to me that most of these people weren’t even around prior to Vatican II, don’t remember what it was like or what the laity’s attitudes were at the time. They’re short-sighted and can’t see the big picture. Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict are two sides of the same coin. Pope John Paul was the lover of humanity and the towering intellect the world needed at that time. He brought people into the Church and back to the Church, drawing them with the fatherly love of God (“I will draw them with human bands of love…”) Pope Benedict is the fine-tuner of the motley People of God.

These naysayers make me very angry sometimes; they’re like Pharisees, totally focused on the letter of the law rather than the love and mercy of God.
Their version of Chritianity and Catholicism is cold and heartless.
 
FickleFreckled said:
This may be just a little off-topic, but I’ve heard so much from certain quarters regarding Pope John Paul - someone on the CA forums even had the temerity to judge him a “terrible pope”. I can’t be quiet any longer. These people claim to want to return to the pre-Vatican II Church, but in pre-Vatican II days, no Catholic would have had the audacity to criticize even the parish priest, much less the pope. Whatever validity there might otherwise be to anything they say is completely invalidated by their hubris. They are weakening the unity of the Church, not strengthening it, and that is NOT the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Deacon_Ed_B said:
We can see the necessity of prayer. I too feel as you do. How do these individuals feel they have the authority to speak as they do is beyond me It screams of the necessity of prayer for these people that they will receive the grace of correct thinking and adhere to the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church. Not to some warped heresy.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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I’ve got to say that I agree with both of you, but maybe not in exactly the same ways you are speaking.

Fickle,

the unity of the Church was already weakened as a result of the way the ‘false spirit of Vatican II’ played itself out–and continues to do so-- in the Parishes. This is one of the reasons for the vociferousness of the Traditionalists. As in any group, there are those who are reasonable and those who are not. God knows that none of us–not even His Holiness John Paul II-- is perfect; neither expressing nor living out perfectly the Faith at all times and in all ways, and in all things that one does. Noone is, nor should be, beyond* reasonable* criticism, except when He is Teaching infallibly on the Faith and Morals. There are things that His Holiness did that both shocked me negatively, and also things that endeared him to me.

We owe our loyalties to the Papacy.
 
FickleFreckled said:
These naysayers make me very angry sometimes; they’re like Pharisees, totally focused on the letter of the law rather than the love and mercy of God.
Their version of Chritianity and Catholicism is cold and heartless.
Click to expand...
There’s no doubt that heresies exist, and heresies must be condemned. It is also taught that protestants and unbaptised ones probably cannot go to Heaven. However, the sedevacantists would have use believe that Pope John Paul II taught all kind of heresies contrary to the past popes. That is what this thread is trying to disprove. I would call John Paul II a “great” pope or an extraordinarily good one, because to be honest we have had greater, but I do not at all believe he was a heretic.

Condemning heresy is not “cold and heartless”, it is the search for the truth, and it is the truth that saves us.
 
Could we all stay on topic please, this thread is about exposing the silliness of “the 101 heresies of John Paul II.”
 
alanF.
I wasn’t calling condemnation of heresy “cold and heartless”; I was referring to the attitudes of many of these people toward the Church and the practise of the faith.

In any case, it’s the place of the heirarchy of the Church to interpret and establish doctrine and publicly condemn heresy and that hasn’t happened. It’s a moot point.

The last I heard, the Catholic Church had not yet become a democracy. We are all certainly entitled to our opinions, however negative they may be, but even if we don’t agree with something a pope is doing or teaching, the laity’s “job” is to cooperate - and support - in obedience to the representative of Christ. He is human and subject to human weaknesses and sin, but the Church still moves in the direction God has planned for it in spite of the human frailties of it’s leader or its members. To so vehemently and publicly attack the person God has chosen to lead the Church is wrong.
 
AlanF said:
A sedevacantist sent me this link to a website containing a list of 101 alleged heresies of Pope John Paul II. At first these look like genuine heresies, I’m not overly sure how to respond to them.
Click to expand...
In regard to the first claim that “the Catholic Church lacks unity”, UUS 7-10;; Ut Unum Sint, Encyclical of John Paul II
This quote is a lie. It is certain that all these are lies as well as the first one.Refer to the full excerpts referred to below. This speaks of reuniting all Christian Faiths back to the True Catholic Church.
The way of ecumenism: the way of the Church
  1. “The Lord of the Ages wisely and patiently follows out the plan of his grace on behalf of us sinners. In recent times he has begun to bestow more generously upon divided Christians remorse over their divisions and a longing for unity. Everywhere, large numbers have felt the impulse of this grace, and among our separated brethren also there increases from day to day a movement, fostered by the grace of the Holy Spirit, for the restoration of unity among all Christians. Taking part in this movement, which is called ecumenical, are those who invoke the Triune God and confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour. They join in not merely as individuals but also as members of the corporate groups in which they have heard the Gospel, and which each regards as his Church and, indeed, God’s. And yet almost everyone, though in different ways, longs that there may be one visible Church of God, a Church truly universal and sent forth to the whole world that the world may be converted to the Gospel and so be saved, to the glory of God”.6
  2. This statement of the Decree Unitatis Redintegratio is to be read in the context of the complete teaching of the Second Vatican Council. The Council expresses the Church’s decision to take up the ecumenical task of working for Christian unity and to propose it with conviction and vigour: “This sacred Synod exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to participate actively in the work of ecumenism”.7
In indicating the Catholic principles of ecumenism, the Decree Unitatis Redintegratio recalls above all the teaching on the Church set forth in the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium in its chapter on the People of God.8 At the same time, it takes into account everything affirmed in the Council’s Declaration on Religious Freedom Dignitatis Humanae.9

The Catholic Church embraces with hope the commitment to ecumenism as a duty of the Christian conscience enlightened by faith and guided by love. Here too we can apply the words of Saint Paul to the first Christians of Rome: “God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit”; thus our “hope does not disappoint us” (Rom 5:5). This is the hope of Christian unity, which has its divine source in the Trinitarian unity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
  1. Jesus himself, at the hour of his Passion, prayed “that they may all be one” (Jn 17:21). This unity, which the Lord has bestowed on his Church and in which he wishes to embrace all people, is not something added on, but stands at the very heart of Christ’s mission. Nor is it some secondary attribute of the community of his disciples. Rather, it belongs to the very essence of this community. God wills the Church, because he wills unity, and unity is an expression of the whole depth of his agape.
In effect, this unity bestowed by the Holy Spirit does not merely consist in the gathering of people as a collection of individuals. It is a unity constituted by the bonds of the profession of faith, the sacraments and hierarchical communion.10 The faithful are one because, in the Spirit, they are in communion with the Son and, in him, share in his communion with the Father: “Our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ” (1 Jn 1:3). For the Catholic Church, then, thecommunion of Christians is none other than the manifestation in them of the grace by which God makes them sharers in his own communion, which is his eternal life. Christ’s words “that they may be one” are thus his prayer to the Father that the Father’s plan may be fully accomplished, in such a way that everyone may clearly see “what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things” (Eph 3:9). To believe in Christ means to desire unity; to desire unity means to desire the Church; to desire the Church means to desire the communion of grace which corresponds to the Father’s plan from all eternity. Such is the meaning of Christ’s prayer: “Ut unum sint”.
  1. In the present situation of the lack of unity among Christians and of the confident quest for full communion, the Catholic faithful are conscious of being deeply challenged by the Lord of the Church. The Second Vatican Council strengthened their commitment with a clear ecclesiological vision, open to all the ecclesial values present among other Christians. The Catholic faithful face the ecumenical question in a spirit of faith.
The Council states that the Church of Christ “subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him”, and at the same time acknowledges that “many elements of sanctification and of truth can be found outside her visible structure. These elements, however, as gifts properly belonging to the Church of Christ, possess an inner dynamism towards Catholic unity”.
 
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