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Beloved2010
Guest
Why are there 12 days of Christmas? I am curious to know the origins behind twelve. Why not eight or fourteen or any other number?
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Angel_Bradford
Guest
It’s the number of days between Christmas and the Feast of the Epiphany which is, traditionally when Christmas ended.
There is also an email circulating that the song, The Twelve Days of Christmas" was a way of teaching Catholic children the catechism in England when it was forbidden to be Catholic.
There is also an email circulating that the song, The Twelve Days of Christmas" was a way of teaching Catholic children the catechism in England when it was forbidden to be Catholic.
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SKWill
Guest
It appears story about the song being a secret catechism is an urban legend: snopes.com/holidays/christmas/music/12days.asp
You sure you want to trust snopes for this?
snopes.com/lost/mistered.asp?version=color#toggle
snopes.com/lost/false.asp
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A_G
Guest
The 12 days of Christmas are the days between the Nativity of the Lord (December 25), and the Feast of the Epiphany which commemortates the visit of the “magi” to the Christ child in Bethlehem (January 6). The evening preceding Epiphany is called the Twelfth Night. The Feast of the Epiphany celebrates the first manifestation of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles. This time is also known as Christmastide.
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SKWill
Guest
If a Snopes entry is in the Repostitory of Lost Legends section (i.e. the TRoLL section), then it’s a joke entry by Barbara and David Mikkelson. All the other entries on the site are trustworthy. You’ve read the second page you linked to, so you know that.
Back in the good old days of the internet, I was a regular reader of the alt.folklore.urban newsgroup and remember when the Barbara Mikkleson was a regular poster to a.f.u. – David (a.k.a. Snopes) was a rare, but legendary contributor. I even remember quite a long thread on a.f.u. started by someone who not only claimed that not only was the story of the “Twelve Days of Christmas” being a secret catechism true, but also the song was orginally 25 days long and he had discovered the lost 13 verses. That one took a long time to resolve.
The real point made is that we should verify for ourselves.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
In Biblical numerology seven is the number of earthly perfection - seven days of the week, seven deacons [who were to serve earthly needs], etc, and twelve is the number of heavenly perfection - twelve tribes of Israel, twelve apostles etc. That may be involved in this.
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Vico
Guest
The Epiphany, celebrated in the west, the physical revelation of the Holy Infant in the visit of the Three Kings (Gospel Jan 6 Matt 2:1-12**)**, and later the Feast of the Baptism of the Lord on the Sunday after Epiphany.
In the Byzantine Catholic Churche, the Magi (Matt 2:1-12) are included in Christmas readings and the Theophany (the mystical revelation of the Trinity at the Baptism of Christ) celebration which is January 6 (Gregorian) or January 19 (Julian).
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SKWill
Guest
Exactly. And one of the ways I verify stories that sound like urban legends to me is to consult with Snopes.
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puzzleannie
Guest
because there are 12 days between Christmas and Epiphany, or Twelfth Night.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
Interesting.
Snopes makes arguments as to why they think the story might not be true, but they don’t really offer any evidence.
They also say the idea of it being used by persecuted Catholics only dates to the 1990s, I am pretty sure I heard it before then.
Pax
Agreed.
I was provided this information as a piece of trivia in the 70’s.
I am uncertain where the religion teacher got the information from.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Well, its impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof is always on the one who is asserting something.
However, I do agree with Snopes that there’s nothing in the so-called “code” that would be specifically Catholic enough to need to hide in code.
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ProVobis
Guest
Maybe you’re thinking of Green Grow the Rushes O, which I heard a few times in school?
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oneGODoneCHURCH
Guest
That is why it was used there was nothing in it that would I.D. the person as Catholic. Remember it was illegal to be Catholic at the time so this was used to teach and concel at the same time.
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Chatter163
Guest
I heard this same catechetical claim in the 1980s. In any event, I think that one would be hard-pressed to find documentary evidence about said claim in the early 20th century, let alone something older.
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Beloved2010
Guest
So then is it simply because there are twelve days from Christmas and epiphany? Someone else said it may be symbolic of 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc. There must be a reason why they chose 12, considering that Jesus was not actually born on that day and there may not have been twelve days between these two events. I have not been able to find it.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
I didn’t make myself clear. There’s nothing that this code supposedly teaches that would be Catholic enough to hide in code. Most of the “decodings” that I’ve found show that it teaches basic Christian facts that even Anglicans would not have disputed.
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jimrob
Guest
The idea of celebrating the feast of the Nativity of Our Lord on 25th December came about when Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire in the fourth century. We don’t know the day on which Jesus was born. 1st century Jews and the Greeks who made up much of the early Church didn’t celebrate birthdays - that was a Roman habit.
From the earliest days of the Church, a feast celebrating the revelation of Jesus to the world was held on (what we now call) 6th January. Originally, this celebrated Christ’s baptism. The feast goes back so far that it is possibly the anniversary of his baptism. In time, and once the final form of Matthew’s Gospel had crystallised, the emphasis changed to the revelation of Jesus to the Magi and the celebration of his baptism was put back to the following Sunday.
In the pagan Roman Empire, the main midwinter beanfeast started with Saturnalia on 17th December and continued until after the birthday of Sol Invicta on 24th December. That effectively gave everyone a week off when the weather was at its worst - although the drift of the early calendar meant that the cold dark days were getting later in the year. Following the Edict of Milan in the 4th Century, the pagan festivals were replaced by Christian festivals. Jesus was allocated a birthday on 25th December with the emphasis on Luke’s account of the Nativity (manger and shepherds) giving everyone 12 days off until the more tradition celebration on 6th January with Matthew’s account.
The Eastern Churches never adopted the Roman festivities and they continue to celebrate Christ’s birth on 6th January.
From the earliest days of the Church, a feast celebrating the revelation of Jesus to the world was held on (what we now call) 6th January. Originally, this celebrated Christ’s baptism. The feast goes back so far that it is possibly the anniversary of his baptism. In time, and once the final form of Matthew’s Gospel had crystallised, the emphasis changed to the revelation of Jesus to the Magi and the celebration of his baptism was put back to the following Sunday.
In the pagan Roman Empire, the main midwinter beanfeast started with Saturnalia on 17th December and continued until after the birthday of Sol Invicta on 24th December. That effectively gave everyone a week off when the weather was at its worst - although the drift of the early calendar meant that the cold dark days were getting later in the year. Following the Edict of Milan in the 4th Century, the pagan festivals were replaced by Christian festivals. Jesus was allocated a birthday on 25th December with the emphasis on Luke’s account of the Nativity (manger and shepherds) giving everyone 12 days off until the more tradition celebration on 6th January with Matthew’s account.
The Eastern Churches never adopted the Roman festivities and they continue to celebrate Christ’s birth on 6th January.
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