12 year old muslim boy beheads captive

[BlestOne]

Again, you can’t apologise for something you had nothing to do with. Muslims aren’t some kind of collective entity, we’re not the Borg.

Then please don’t expect Christians or Jews to apologize for what 1 member does, and in the name of God Almighty, don’t support those who kill innocents just because of their religion offended them. I think the next time someone draws a cartoon that offends muslims, or makes an ice cream cone logo that looks too much like Allah in Arabic, muslims should only hold the offender accountable not all westerners.

 

[Montalban]

Peace to you

Wow. I didn’t realize it would only take one post to get attacked around here. You guys need to take a deep breath. All that anger is not good for your health.

So when you say something wrong, and someone points it out, it’s their fault? Moslems shift guilt!

Those Quran verses you posted are taken out of context. I can post violence from the Bible if I wanted to.

That claim is simply a just-so. I can make the same and say that they weren’t taken out of context.

You cannot win an arguement when you are making such vast generalizations like always and all of you, etc.

You’re now making an argument based on generalisations of argument!

So, because a few priests molest children then does that mean ALL of you do?? No. I don’t think so.

If you can show a causal link between Christ’s teachings and the actions of these priests you’d have a case. You can’t, and therefore you don’t.

As I said before, you need to look at the values of a religion not just the bad apples. And… breathe.

People are looking at those values. Islam looks to a man as an ‘ideal’ a man who over-saw the execution of PoWs. He encouraged people to kill and to lie.

 

[cestusdei]

Freesia, there are way to many bad apples in islam. Face the facts.

Kad, 23 Yazidi’s were killed by muslims. The Yazidi’s apparently killed a woman who converted to islam. Why that bothers muslims I don’t know since you do the SAME thing. So in retaliation they randomly grabbed some Yazidi’s off a bus and killed them. They were not personally responsible for the womans death, but muslims held them accountable for the actions of others in their religion. No muslim I have read sees anything wrong with that. Muslims routinely hold Christians accountable for anything and everything and demand apologies.

It’s your turn. Let’s hear the magic words never before spoken by a muslim, “we are sorry, we were wrong, we wont’ do it again.”

 

[Chris_LaRock]

What it all boils down to is this:

When Muslims fail to comdemn the violence that is done in the name of Islam, Non-Muslims have very little choice but suspect that there’s a reason for this silence. Indifference to the violence, agreement with the violence, being too afraid to speak out…whatever.

 

[Freesia]

Peace to you

I did not say anything wrong in my post. Nor was I attempting to shift guilt, lol. I find it interesting that you ask for peace while throwing stones. You are making judgments about me when you do not even know me. Peace cannot be achieved this way. The bible says to “judge not lest ye be judged”. Caution is advised here.

 

[Grateful4mercy]

The more conversations we have like this the more I feel we will never find our way thru the impenetrable smokescreen that is Islam. They just keep giving us “nuh, uh…we’re a religion of peace” as if that is a valid answer. It might work if the whole world was only educated to the 3rd grade, but the West is not to be trifled with! We are on to your tactics and have been for 2 generations. We are only appeasing the Middle East to keep them from having temper tantrums. No different than a parent would treat a troubled child when they are in public. But eventually the parent HAS to take action and show what happens when you act up, even if it means other people in the restaurant look at them with disapproval.

Any religion spread with the edge of a sword is going to fail, or is going to be forced to take VERY drastic actions in order to maintain power. When Islam is brought to that point the entire West will wring their hands and cry “why didn’t we see this coming?” just like they are with the VT murders.

We are much to worried about hurting peoples feelings to prevent violence. In order to be proactive about these things we have to be willing to lock up innocent people, and the West is not even ready to lock up vicious criminals. We may think ourselves enlightened, but we are willing victims and useful idiots in the eyes of our oppressors (and you can believe that Islam is going to win because of it).

[/END_RANT]

 

[manualman]

This thread is heading in an ugly direction and one I fear our CULTURE will head in before long.

Cestusdei, I agree with you wholeheartedly that Islam is a dangerous force in the world today that bears watching and deserves to be put to some hard questions.

But I think you and many others here forget that Islam is not a monolith. All muslims are not the same any more than all christians are the same. The problem I see in Islam is that a large and loud minority have embraced the sick/violent version of Islam. The majority of nominal muslims are still normal regular humans with consciences and consciences formed better than those of an awful lot of my American neighbors! But what are they supposed to do? How should they go about slowing and reversing the degredation of their religion? I know, you can spout of some trite and simplistic actions you want to see, but those won’t require YOU to put your life on the line. Yes, it is going to take some heroic virtue on the part of good muslims to root ot the bad seed, but the kind of rhetoric being spouted here isn’t going to help inspire them. Seems more likely to me to make more converts to jihadism.

I don’t have the answer, but I think the one you guys are pursuing is doing more harm than good. What are you hoping to accomplish anyways?

Meedo and all, kudos for sticking around for discussion. I hope you can hear the legitimate concerns christians have about the direction of Islam today without just feeling hostility and anger.

 

[manualman]

These people are savages. When will we wake up to that basic FACT?

Exhibit A. Yikes. Savages. Subhuman, maybe? What do you suggest we do about it?

Maybe instead of proclaiming all muslims the same and implying certain ultimate solutions might be in order, we ought to ask ourselves how we can help the muslims with genuine consciences overcome the psychopaths. Who cares which camp Muhammed himself was really in? As christians we know he was NOT a genuine prophet and have no need to rub that fact in. I suggest we will have a better time making peaceful converts AND peaceful relations with those who remain muslim if we can work together constructively with the healthy muslims instead of demonizing them ALL.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Since Muslims aren’t actively condemning the violence, what indication would we have to conclude they don’t agree with it?

 

[exoflare]

The more conversations we have like this the more I feel we will never find our way thru the impenetrable smokescreen that is Islam. They just keep giving us “nuh, uh…we’re a religion of peace” as if that is a valid answer. It might work if the whole world was only educated to the 3rd grade,

Yeah, that’s about the jist of it… I think Islam tends to project its own blind faith and simple-mindedness onto the rest of the world.

 

[exoflare]

Those Quran verses you posted are taken out of context.

Wow I never saw that coming!
You think I was born yesterday? I know that’s the old Muslim standby… just say "out of context" and you get to just ignore all the verses you find inconvenient. That’s why the people who make this excuse never go on to actually tell you WHAT the context IS.

Could you possibly explain the “context” for those verses then? The Quran was meant to be a clear and straightforward guide to life for all places and times, wasn’t it?

I can post violence from the Bible if I wanted to.

1. You’re already having to resort to ‘tu quoque’ here because you can’t answer your own questions.
2. The Bible wasn’t ever meant to be a book of direct commands to all of humankind, as the Quran is touted to be.

 

[Freesia]

Peace to you

I did not ask any questions that I need an answer to. No, I do not think you were born yesterday. I would expect that you have heard the truth already. Whether you choose to believe it or listen to it is entirely up to you.

 

[Jayda]

hola

this is very disturbing… but maybe there is a less sensationalist way of expressing concern and anger against what happened? i think speaking in this way may be misconstrued as saying all muslims do these kinds of acts and are responsible. let us consider that the quran is an imperfect creation of a man, and that because of its ambiguity there is room to translate or understand it in many different ways. some very bad people wish to interpret it in ways that justify their actions. but many muslims interpret the quran to bind them to good things…

there are some very good things about islam, our dogmatic constitution (at 16) and catechism (at 840) tell us this. they worship the same God, uphold Jesus as a prophet and believe in judgment day. in many ways they are like Jews… we should consider these points as a foundation for helping them achieve perfect faith.

Dominus Vobiscum

 

[cestusdei]

Peace to you

I did not say anything wrong in my post. Nor was I attempting to shift guilt, lol. I find it interesting that you ask for peace while throwing stones. You are making judgments about me when you do not even know me. Peace cannot be achieved this way. The bible says to “judge not lest ye be judged”. Caution is advised here.

Muslims love to throw stones. Would you like to see a video of them doing it? The difference is they use real stones and kill innocent people. I don’t see you expressing any outrage at what they taught this boy and for the murder of this man.

 

[cestusdei]

This thread is heading in an ugly direction and one I fear our CULTURE will head in before long.

Cestusdei, I agree with you wholeheartedly that Islam is a dangerous force in the world today that bears watching and deserves to be put to some hard questions.

But I think you and many others here forget that Islam is not a monolith. All muslims are not the same any more than all christians are the same. The problem I see in Islam is that a large and loud minority have embraced the sick/violent version of Islam. The majority of nominal muslims are still normal regular humans with consciences and consciences formed better than those of an awful lot of my American neighbors! But what are they supposed to do? How should they go about slowing and reversing the degredation of their religion? I know, you can spout of some trite and simplistic actions you want to see, but those won’t require YOU to put your life on the line. Yes, it is going to take some heroic virtue on the part of good muslims to root ot the bad seed, but the kind of rhetoric being spouted here isn’t going to help inspire them. Seems more likely to me to make more converts to jihadism.

I don’t have the answer, but I think the one you guys are pursuing is doing more harm than good. What are you hoping to accomplish anyways?

Meedo and all, kudos for sticking around for discussion. I hope you can hear the legitimate concerns christians have about the direction of Islam today without just feeling hostility and anger.

WHERE are those “moderate” muslims. Meedo here has stated he agrees with killing converts. He thinks he is moderate. Meedo the nice guy who will grieve for you as he watches them slice off your head, but he won’t stop them, disagree with them, or protest against them.

 

[Freesia]

Peace to you

Muslims love to throw stones. Would you like to see a video of them doing it? The difference is they use real stones and kill innocent people.

I have never killed a person nor have I even thought of doing so. Please stop generalizing.

I don’t see you expressing any outrage at what they taught this boy and for the murder of this man.

Thank you for that observation. I did state previously my opinion. The fact that I do not show my anger says that I am a peaceful person and not an angry one. That goes against that stereotype of the violent angry Muslim that you are trying to portray us all to be.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I realize there are some Muslims who are totally indifferent to Islam. I know some. But even most of them are seemingly also totally indifferent to the horrible things done in Islam’s name; at least in any public way.

A Danish cartoon is published and hundreds of thousands of Muslims march and threaten death to everybody who had anything to do with it. The Pope quotes something from an ancient Byzantine and hundreds of thousands of Muslims march and threaten the life of the Pope.

And yet, if a 12 year old boy beheads somebody, or if a bomb goes off in London or Madrid or neighborhoods get torched in France or 3,000 people are killed in the U.S.----nothing. Absolutely no outrage. No marchers. Nobody burned in effigy. Nothing. Kind of makes one think Muslims in general, at minimum, don’t care at all about the lives of non-Muslims; perhaps not about anyone killed, raped or tortured, so long as the perpetrator is a Muslim man.

It’s not a pretty picture. Not any of it. When one begins to expect the worst from Islam, (at one time I didn’t, but got “mugged by reality”) and when that expectation always seems to be met by something even worse than one expected, one simply cannot believe “Islam is a religion of peace” just because someone says it over and over.

 

[cestusdei]

Peace to you

I have never killed a person nor have I even thought of doing so. Please stop generalizing.

Thank you for that observation. I did state previously my opinion. The fact that I do not show my anger says that I am a peaceful person and not an angry one. That goes against that stereotype of the violent angry Muslim that you are trying to portray us all to be.

You are a muslim. Muslims rountinely demand apologies and kill if they don’t get them. Muslims tend towards group think and have no problem generalizing about others. So get off your high horse. The Imam in Pittsburgh also claims to be a nice peaceful person, but he wants to kill Hirsi Ali. I don’t have to portray you as anything. All I have to do is post about what you do and how you refuse to renounce violence. When muslims riot and kill and then refuse to apologize you condemn yourselves.

 

[Freesia]

lol. If you only knew.

You make it really hard for me to take you seriously. You think you know everything about me. When you decide to put your hate aside then perhaps we can have a conversation.

 

[cestusdei]

Hate? Tell you what, which is more hateful, this boy beheading someone or me protesting it? You, like so many muslims, are more annoyed at me pointing out what is going on then the actual acts of terrorism themselves. That is sick.